Reloading .357 for a 4" Barrel

[IWAC]

Are we breaking the new ITAR rules, discussing reloading hints?

For my 357s, I have always used Unique, with some experimentation with 2400, Blue Dot, Bullseye, 4756 and Universal. BE-86 looks verrrry interesting, though.

For years, shooting IPSC, I used cast 150-158 gr. SWCs over 5.5gr Unique. 4 in. barrel, chronoed 860 fps. Standard primers. Now, in an attempt to equal the FBI-Dade County-RCMP load, I use 5.8 gr. Unique with cast 150-162 gr. gas checked bullets, or an equivalent amount of Universal.

For loads, I get a good manual, take the .38 Special +P load data, and increase it +5% to adjust for the larger case volume of the 357, and also add a little more "snap" to the load. If that works, I go to +10%, or as close as my powder measure bushings will allow, which in most cases is less than the starting loads for the .357.

I have concluded, rightly or otherwise, that the maximum versatility/effectiveness of solid cast bullets is reached at about 1100 fps, Gas checked hollow points are another story entirely. Beyond 1100 fps, I mostly got increased BOOM and flash. Your opinion/experience may vary.

My brother-in-law and I have settled on what we call "HOT .38/Mild Magnum" loads for jacketed bullets...about 1,000 fps. Easier to shoot, good expansion and enough effectiveness for almost anything I may wish to do, which nowadays, is mostly punching holes in paper.

I have enough factory "good stuff" put by for quite a while, tho.

 

[csmats]

Thanks everyone. Been out of town and am just back, but a lot of good info here so thanks again.

Someone asked, "But how does the OP define "performance" here?"

What I'm looking for vis-a-vis "performance" is a mix of power with a heavier bullet (158gr or more) offset by efficiency/economy from a grains of powder/fps velocity trade-off. I don't necessarily want max velocity, particularly if it means a big, gigantic fireball out of the end of the muzzle. I want power and efficiency, combined, out of a 4" 357.

BTW, I came back to Cali from a trip to a way more "gun friendly" place and brought back 6lbs of W296 (plus 2lbs of Red Dot). I'm smiling! I guess I'll try 296 with the XTPs and hard cast options I mentioned! Maybe the min loads (which in 296 are close behind max loads) will be what I'm seeking.

 

[gamestalker]

First off, I wouldn't be inclined to, nor do I pick a powder based on barrel length.

As far as velocities are concerned, a longer barrel is going to deliver higher velocities. I don't recall an experience when that school of thought has ever produced conflicting results.

I run the same H110/296 jacketed loads for snubs, as I do for longer barreled revolvers. The velocity is slower out of the snubs, and progressively faster as barrel length is increased. But IME, what ever produces the highest velocity from a 6" barrel, is still going to produce the highest velocities from a 2.5" barrel. How much slower / faster is going to depend on the specific barrel.

As for accuracy, I get excellent accuracy using full throttle 296 loads with any length barrel revolver. Though very uncomfortable to shoot, even my snubs shoot extremely accurate with 296 loads.

GS

 

[ljnowell]

Thanks everyone. Been out of town and am just back, but a lot of good info here so thanks again.

Someone asked, "But how does the OP define "performance" here?"

What I'm looking for vis-a-vis "performance" is a mix of power with a heavier bullet (158gr or more) offset by efficiency/economy from a grains of powder/fps velocity trade-off. I don't necessarily want max velocity, particularly if it means a big, gigantic fireball out of the end of the muzzle. I want power and efficiency, combined, out of a 4" 357.

BTW, I came back to Cali from a trip to a way more "gun friendly" place and brought back 6lbs of W296 (plus 2lbs of Red Dot). I'm smiling! I guess I'll try 296 with the XTPs and hard cast options I mentioned! Maybe the min loads (which in 296 are close behind max loads) will be what I'm seeking.

IMO if you are wanting to edge into real magnum but don't want barnburner loads and want efficiency in charge weight, I would recommend AA#5. You should be able to get to about 1200fps with a 158 grain bullet with #5 and still have a relatively low charge weight for the velocity.

 

[CraigC]

You load the same for both of them. And actually, I load the same for my 2 1/2" .357 as well. Same goes for a rifle. The powder is burned long before it exits the barrel. If a load has unburned powder in a short barrel it will in a long barrel. That's a load problem, not a barrel length problem.

Welcome to THR

Boy did I start a heck of a fight saying the EXACT same thing awhile back, lol!

This is the truth though. The load with the highest velocity in the 6" will post the highest in the 4". As for powder burning, the overwhelming majority will burn in the barrel in both, as you said, there will be more expanding gases leaving the 4" and when hitting open air they will produce a beautiful fireball.

Wisdom!

Barrel length is huge in magnum revolvers. The data listed in most ballistics charts is from 7-8" barrels. Even 6" barrels will be significantly slower. A 4" barrel is about as short as I find acceptable and you just have to live with the fact that is will be a lot slower.

There are too many variables from revolver to revolver for velocity to be predictable. The rule of thumb is that every revolver is a law unto itself. It's never a good idea to automatically assume that any given 4" gun will be slower than any given 6". Because it isn't always the case.

Shorter barrel gives less time for accelleration so you need a fast powder to push as hard as it can for that split second the bullet is accellerating. With longer barrels you want a slightly slower powder to keep pressure on the bullet longer letting it accelerate the whole time it's in the barrel.

If you go the wrong way it's easier to see...if you use a slow powder in a short barrel it will still be burning when it leaves the barrel and a lot of the potential energy will be wasted in a big fireball. If you use a fast powder in a long barrel the powder all burns and pressures decrease with the bullet still in the barrel so that last few inches of barrel basically acts like brakes for the bullet and starts slowing it down.

Popular misconception. You're not seeing burning powder leaving the barrel, you're seeing expanding gasses. The powder is actually burned in a very short period.