Reloading 357 mag.

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Thank you all for your input and advice. Turns out every load I've made had no crimp at all. Currently I have about 200 rounds loaded this way and I'll reuse the seating die with the crimp screwed down properly,but as I already pointed out,I think,I'm using a press and dies belonging to someone else and do not have ready access. I guess maybe I've been lucky not to have had a catastrophic incident,particularly since Win 296/H110 is the only powder I've used and some of my loads have been heavy. Would it be best not to shoot any of my reloads until I get access to the press and crimp them? Somewhere I read that not crimping can affect accuracy. I hope that's true in my case because I seem to be getting nowhere at the range.
Thank you Walkalong for the link to the crimping thread. Very informative.
As for the 19.5 grains being below the starting point,I'm glad you drew attention to it,DWFan. I got my info from here: http://www.reloadammo.com/357loads.htm and it gives a starting load of 18.5 WITH mag primers which I have used for all loads I've made (CCI 550 SP magnum). Why is there so much confusion when dealing with this powder? I'll bump it up to 21.0 next time.
As for the ammo already gone through my gun,what could have happened or what may have already happened to my gun as a result of no crimp? The gun,Ruger SS 6" GP100,has about 700 rounds through it with perhaps 350-400 reloads.

And jfh and Walkalong are right...I'm just a guy that did not read the directions first....and very glad to have found this forum!

Bill

 

[sniper5]

Yes, I'd wait until you get to a press to crimp the loads for two reasons: The powder likes a tight crimp to keep pressure high, and there is a chance that the bullets will creep forward under recoil and could creep from the casing enough to jam up the cylinder with is a complete fuster cluck when it happens.

From what I understand, the lower starting loads listed were generally from older manuals and manufacturers of other components that didn't understand the powder and were using the standard "drop to 10% or 15% of max and work back up". After some experience with the loads it was found that sub minimum loads of that particular powder could cause dangerous pressure spikes and the data was revised.

I think in the GP100 because of the strength of the action and it's proof rating you will be OK with the loads you have for now, but I would not load any more subminimum loads. What YOU will probably experience is erratic ignition (you probably won't feel it) which will manifest itself as larger group size.

I am currently teaching my wife to reload her ammo (she is shooting so much I'm getting tired of being the only handle puller in the family) and this underscores some points I tell her about working up new loads (she's not there yet):

1. When changing powders-learn the powder. Learn what it looks like, smells like, how it's packaged, how and why it was developed, what it's relative burn rate is, any quirks that are known to exist, etc.

2. Always get data from a mimimum of 2 sources and make sure the prospective loads are within safe ranges on both sources.

3. Pay attention to maximum and MINIMUM loads. They exist for a reason.

4. One of your sources should be the powder manufacturer's data.

5. DO NOT DO SUBSTITUTIONS. If the components are listed generically (large magnum pistol primer, jacketed bullet, lead bullet, etc) then it is generic data. If components are listed by brand and type (Hornady XTP-HP, or Federal 100 primers, etc) then the data was derived using those components. Do not make changes, use only those components.

6. Pay attention to overall length and case length. It IS important.

7. Know why and when to crimp or not to and how much. It IS important.

When reloading, OCD is a GOOD thing.

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

I don't know which die is the expander and which is the seater in that pic, but neither has the body down far enough to crimp, especially the one on the bottom. The bullet is in the right place, but there is no crimp.

Take the lock ring off the sizer. put the LNL bushing in the press. Run that round up into it. Run the seater plug way up in the seater/crimper. Start turning the seater into the LNL bushing until you feel the crimp ledge hit the brass. That is about where your die body needs to be in the bushing. Replace the lock ring and do it a gain. Re-read the directions on crimping that came with the die.

The bottom die in the photo is for seating/crimping. Apparently the guy who's press I'm using does not crimp,either. I am at a loss as to how to go about bringing this subject up to him since I'm the newby. Any ideas? Is crimp a big enough deal to perhaps create hard feelings? He reloads his own 44mags,too. What really is at stake besides a bullet possibly "walking" out of the case,something I'm guessing he'd notice right away with a Blackhawk(single action)?

Bill

 

[Walkalong]

The crimp is a big deal (IMHO) in .44 Mag. Enough to risk his feelings? Only you know. He might be appreciative it though. Obviously he is getting by without it, but it can only help.

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

I'm buying my son-in-law's press ONLY and will need to buy dies. My only gun is a 357...is this set any good?
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=498432
Or would it be best to buy a set with a separate crimping die such as this:http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=309802

My understanding that any set of dies will work with any press. Is this correct? Thanks.

Bill

 

[Walkalong]

That Hornady set will work just fine, but so will the Lee three die set. If you choose to crimp in a separate step, I would get a plain old crimp die, and not the FCD. Skip the squeezing a loaded round bit. Most presses take most dies. The Dillon Square Deal B is one exception.

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

I do not know the meaning of "skip the squeezing a loaded round bit" Please explain. Thanks for responding.

Bill

 

[Walkalong]

The Lee FCD has a carbide ring in it. It is bigger than the sizer carbide ring. It is intended to make sure the round will fit, but does it at the expense of squeezing the loaded round, sometimes to the detriment of the round since brass springs back and lead doesn't. Anyway, it isn't needed if everything is done right.

There are, of course, many proponents of the FCD die. I am just not one of them. AC

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Reloaded 100 rounds today after playing around with crimp die. How do they look? Hornady 158 GR HP/XTP, 15 grains H110, every finished round 1.59" give or take .002 or .003.

Bill

 

[Walkalong]

Look real good, but I would get the bullet a little lower to get the crimp rolled more in the middle of the cannelure. Just a little bit. Picky...I know. Wife tells me all the time, as well as co-workers...

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

I thought about that,too,but I read somewhere that overall length of round is critical to control pressure consistency in rounds. Every round I reloaded today were nearly right on the Hornady's proper length of 1.590". Also,I have many brands of brass that I bought once fired and the cases vary in length. Is position on cannelure more important? I'd have to sort brand name brass prior to reloading. I'll look through a box of reloads to find differing positions of crimp on the bullet,take a photo and post. I want them right. If position on bullet is paramount,that'll be my goal. Thanks again for responding,Walkalong.
Picky is good

Forgot to add that primers were CCI 550 SP Magnums.

Bill

 

[Walkalong]

What length did Hornady trim brass to? What trim length did you use, if you trimmed?

Crimp into the middle of the cannelure where it is deepest, and that is your O.A.L. for that bullet with your brass trimmed to whatever trim length you decided on.

I trim all my revolver brass. (1.280) Some don't, but it can vary quite a lot, which makes for inconsistent crimps.

 

[jfh]

Walkalong gave a good assessment there, and a good recommendation. While your concern about LOA and pressure is not misplaced, arguably it is not as important as learning good technique at this point in your career. The pressure issue would be the predominate factor to consider if you were simply loading at a MAX load, for example--perhaps one under the old CUP guidelines, and from an old manual.

The case length variable has a possible impact--i.e., if your crimp is 'down near the bottom' with a longer case, you can see that it would be possible to miss the crimp groove with a shorter case. IOW, you risk damaging the bullet, which pays hell with accuracy.

I also suspect, given the characteristic of the crimp you are showing, that you could raise the die body a hair--and then lower the stem a hair, and possibly achieve a true roll crimp without a step in it, as evidenced by (particularly) the rightmost sample. (FWIW, this comment is approaching nitpicking, and offered only because you seem willing to continue tweaking your settings.) All in all, a good job--much better than I did when I was at your stage of learning how to roll crimp. (Ask Walkalong, jibjab, and others about my issues--)

Jim H.

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

#1 Win. #2 Fed. #3 Fed. #4 OS&B(?)

Looks like I need to do a trim on all of my brass. Thanks for your help,guys.

Bill

Just occurred to me that trimming the brass will place crimp even lower on the cannelure if C.O.L. is to be held. Hornady calls for 1.280 trim length and a maximum length of 1.290. I did not trim any of the brass,but I will now. If position of crimp is more important,that's what I'll do.

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

By the way,I'm using Hornady's Sixth Addition,dated 2003.

Bill

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

I just took 10 random de-primered tumbled brass and measured them.
1.289
1.285
1.280
1.295
1.287
1.285
1.287
1.287
1.285
1.280
Next time I get access to the loading equipment I've been using,best to trim all to 1.280 ?

Bill

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm very picky about brass when reloading but I don't trim brass because I sort the brass by head stamp. When I set up to load a batch of ammo it's always the same brass so that when I make the adjustments they remain the same across the entire load session due to the brass being the same.

You are doing very well, keep it up...

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

I appreciate that,ArchAngelCD.
Hoping real hard that my son-in-law will buy the turret press he's wanting real fast. I'm buying his old single stage I'm using now,but it's tough getting access to it because of their busy life. I want my very own to play with. Reloading is almost as fun as shooting...sometimes more if I'm not doing well at the range. Besides,I'm starting to learn (by reading,not shooting. I just don't have a good handle any of it yet) that good loading...consistent loads make for better accuracy. Hard to understand why I'm not shooting well when there are ammo factors muddying the water,too.

Bill

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Well the reason you didn't shoot well with the first .357 Magnum ammo you made was the total lack of a crimp. W296 will not burn well or deliver any kind of consistency without a good firm crimp. For years I used only W296 for my .357 Magnum ammo but for the past year or so I'm also using 2400 to make ammo in different pressure/velocity ranges which can't be done with W296/H110.

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

I've been wanting to try some other powders. I'm using 296/H110 because my son-in-law uses it in both his 357 and his 44,so I just started from there. 2400 is one I've heard a lot of guys use,so I think I'll pick up a jug of it next time I'm buying supplies. Probably make safer rounds with the broader range of charges,particularly since this is all new to me. As I understand it 296/H110 leaves little room for error.

jfh,I'm not quite sure what you mean here:

"I also suspect, given the characteristic of the crimp you are showing, that you could raise the die body a hair--and then lower the stem a hair, and possibly achieve a true roll crimp without a step in it, as evidenced by (particularly) the rightmost sample."

Are you saying I should give them more crimp or less?

Bill

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Actually,ArchAngelCD,I shot 50 rounds of the crimped loads and this one of my tightest groups using magnum ammo. Indoor range and just 30',but you gotta start from where you are. Lying about it ain't going to help me.

Bill

 

[jfh]

Bill: Essentially, I am saying that the amount of the crimp appears to be sufficient (see Walkalong's comments) but that the die setup is not providing the optimal shape to the crimp itself.

Compare the shape of your crimp--it has a step in it--with the shape of a crimp in Walkalong's picture--http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=104247&d=1251398618.

His crimp is a medium-heavy crimp (what you want, IMO, for 296)--and it is a gradual 'bend', with only a hint of the die body 'step.' Your crimp can look like his, with more tweaking, is the point, although to get it consistently you will have to trim your brass. Raising the die body will, of course, make the LOA longer; the stem goes up with the die body--but that will adjust the point at which the crimp starts to be applied. To get back to the same / desired LOA, you need to lower the seater stem--which will also help put the crimp in the right spot on the bullet.

Like ArchangelCD, I sort my brass by headstamp, and generally cycle the same brass together until it becomes mere practice fodder.

Jim H.

 

[Walkalong]

You are doing very well, keep it up...

I agree. Doing quite well, and asking good questions.


I trim all my .357 brass to 1.280, cause I don't want to keep setting up the crimp to match various brands of brass. Trimming will still be more consistent much of the time if you trim as well as sort.

I use a crimp die in a separate step for .357. I use spacers under the crimp die to get the desired crimp, so it would be fairly easy to adjust for different case lengths, but I like to trim and keep the same spacer to get what I want. I am very sure of getting the same crimp all the time this way.

I use the Redding seater to do .38 Spl and .357 Mag. I was using a Dillon sizer for both, but am now using my old Lee sizer.

I have a roll crimp die as well as a taper crimp die. I have both adjusted for a heavy crimp and use the spacers to adjust for light, medium, medium +, etc. I log everything so I can repeat it.

 

[bullseye308]

Looking at the target I don't see any problems. What are your goals for this round? Will it only be for plinking, target shooting, hunting, or self defense? Are you looking for flash & awe, or moderate velocity, or something slower so you can watch the bullet in flight? Once we know what your goals are suitable powders & maybe even different bullets or primers can be advised.

I don't know what your goals or budget are but you could get a Lee Reloader press & some Lee dies along with the Lee case trimmer and probably not reload for cheaper. I have a couple of the reloader presses for pistol loading and nothing but Lee equipment and it all works & works well.

I also load for a 6" GP-100 stainless but I only shoot home cast lead. I finally found a load it likes that is accurate & doesn't lead the barrel. I haven't cleaned the barrel in almost 2k rounds & it still looks good.

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Well,my primary goal is accuracy and it's becoming clear to me that consistent ammo is a major factor that I can control without even picking up the gun. I now understand that only by trimming cases can I get a handle on that and using overall length of rounds as the standard does nothing without every case being the same. I bought a gun mainly for self defense,but soon I discovered that target shooting is fun and that,short of using only new ammo,accuracy begins at the press. I have no plans to hunt with it. I've already sorta made a commitment to buy my son-in-law's Hornady single stage press. I'm happy with that. From there I'll get quality dies (he wants to keep his) and the rest of the stuff new,I guess. I don't mind heavy loads...the Ruger handles recoil pretty good and I'm hoping once I get all of the reloading gear up and going,cost doesn't look to be that big of a deal with full magnum loads. I bought about 450 pieces of brass and according to those I've talked to they should be good for nearly a dozen reloadings. Does that sound like good info? Seems to me that heavy crimping may cut their life short? Anyway,I enjoy shooting magnum rounds and intend to continue using them.
I'm open to any suggestions on bullet/powder/die choices. I see many powder/bullet combos that GP100 users consider to be the most accurate,so I'm thinking it's specific gun instead of a specific model thing. Since bullets are the hardest component to find in my area, rarely am I able to use the same combo for long. I've been hitting the range about twice per week,firing about 50 rounds each visit. Some of that time may now be spent at the press instead. and I'm concerned that by shooting that much and using pitifully inconsistent ammo I may just be getting better at using poor shooting technics/habits.

Bill