Reloading 9mm for short barrels, anything I should know?

[Rmeju]

All of my handgun loading has been for full sized guns with full sized barrels mostly 1911s in .45 and 10mm.

I recently bought an M&P Shield in 9mm, and plan to shoot 124gr JHP out of it, both for practice (using Precision Deltas) and to carry (using XTP, Gold Dots, etc.).

I've done a little looking around, and I've seen that short barrels can be tricky to get up to velocity, making faster powders a better bet. I'm less concerned about my practice rounds in this regard, but I want to make sure I'm doing it right for my carry loads. I'm planning on using Unique for the practice rounds, but I have a bunch of other powders on had if they're better suited for what I'm trying to do--i.e., get up to "expansion velocity" with a 124gr JHP out of a 3.1" barrel. I've got Power Pistol, VVN340, Win231, Titegroup, Bullseye, and the aforementioned Unique.

Have I identified all the issues for loading 9mm out of a short barrel? Anything else I need to know? Will I need to tweak loadings and/or OAL? Any of my listed powders an obvious choice for this task?

 

[jwrowland77]

I load for a Walther PPS in 9mm. Has a 3.2" barrel. Loads great. I've actually found with the bullets I use, I'm able to use a long OAL. May just be the Walther though. Just do your plunk test like normal and you'll be good.


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[egd]

I'll assume since you're not as concerned with your practice rounds you just want something close for them and it doesn't have to match a carry round exactly. If that is the case why bother loading carry rounds? I mean how many times do you think you'll shoot them? Why not just buy a box of good self defense rounds and carry them around for years without ever using them. Then work up a load for practice that matches them fairly close.
Maybe I'll get reamed here since some reloaders think they can reload SOOO much better than any factory round etc.,etc.-their life depends on- blah blah blah....
Really, how many times will you ever fire those carry rounds?

 

[badkarmamib]

I agree with egd. I load lead for practice, but buy factory for defense. Admittedly, part of it is the liability, but part of it is putting all of those rounds together, trying to work up a good load, to keep 50 or so on hand.

 

[Schwing]

All of my handgun loading has been for full sized guns with full sized barrels mostly 1911s in .45 and 10mm.

I recently bought an M&P Shield in 9mm, and plan to shoot 124gr JHP out of it, both for practice (using Precision Deltas) and to carry (using XTP, Gold Dots, etc.).

I've done a little looking around, and I've seen that short barrels can be tricky to get up to velocity, making faster powders a better bet. I'm less concerned about my practice rounds in this regard, but I want to make sure I'm doing it right for my carry loads. I'm planning on using Unique for the practice rounds, but I have a bunch of other powders on had if they're better suited for what I'm trying to do--i.e., get up to "expansion velocity" with a 124gr JHP out of a 3.1" barrel. I've got Power Pistol, VVN340, Win231, Titegroup, Bullseye, and the aforementioned Unique.

Have I identified all the issues for loading 9mm out of a short barrel? Anything else I need to know? Will I need to tweak loadings and/or OAL? Any of my listed powders an obvious choice for this task?

I reload for both my 92fs and my PX4 subcompact. Frankly, using unique or bullseye, I don't think you are going to notice much difference in velocity at all. I don't have my numbers here but, back when I chronographed some of my loads, there was very little difference. I think it was like 20-30fps. PP was a little higher than that but wasn't much different either. Even out of my 16" carbine, those same rounds gained less than 150fps

With the exception of rounds like .357 or .44 magnum, it has been my experience that longer barrels don't really impact velocity very much at all in handgun calibers. For .357 and .44, it is much more of a spread. Some of my .357 and .44 loads gain 300-500fps in a rifle vs a revolver.

 

[LiveLife]

I recently bought an M&P Shield in 9mm, and plan to shoot 124gr JHP out of it, both for practice (using Precision Deltas) and to carry (using XTP, Gold Dots, etc.).

While my reloads are indeed more accurate than factory ammunition, for defensive loads, I prefer to use factory Speer Gold Dot HP and Remington Golden Saber JHP ammunition. We discussed the pros/cons of using factory vs reloaded rounds for defensive use to death on multiple threads so I don't think we need to discuss it further here.

With that said, for decades I have been using WSF to produce duplicate factory loads using the same Gold Dot/Golden Saber projectiles for range drills and practice (for higher velocities WSF achieves). While I have tested AutoComp/CFE Pistol/PowerPistol for full power loads, recently BE-86 has been performing well accurately in 9mm/40S&W so I may transition to BE-86. For those that claim they prefer to practice with same POA/POI rounds as factory, I have done testing with factory vs reloads at 7 yards and difference in POI has been less than one inch. So now I use Red Dot/Promo for practice loads which tend to produce similar recoil impulse/felt recoil as many factory ammunition for more realistic range practice.

Reloading 9mm for short barrels, anything I should know?

All of my handgun loading has been for full sized guns with full sized barrels mostly 1911s in .45 and 10mm.

I've done a little looking around, and I've seen that short barrels can be tricky to get up to velocity, making faster powders a better bet. I'm less concerned about my practice rounds in this regard, but I want to make sure I'm doing it right for my carry loads.

With smaller internal volume of 9mm case, small changes in OAL/seating depth/powder charge/etc. can result more noticeably in chamber pressures and accuracy.

While compact/subcompact with stiffer recoil springs require high-to-near max load data to reliably cycle the slide and extract/eject spent cases, looks like you will be loading at higher range load data so this may not be an issue for you.

Have I identified all the issues for loading 9mm out of a short barrel? Anything else I need to know? Will I need to tweak loadings and/or OAL?

In general, I do not tweak my loads just because I am shooting them in subcompact vs full-size pistols.

Here are some reloading tips specific for 9mm:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=10232332#post10232332

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=10298638#post10298638

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=10045817#post10045817

I'm planning on using Unique for the practice rounds, but I have ... Power Pistol, VVN340, Win231, Titegroup, Bullseye ... 124gr JHP out of a 3.1" barrel.

Any of my listed powders an obvious choice for this task?

I would suggest you load practice rounds so it has similar recoil impulse/felt recoil to defensive loads for more realistic practice. Unique vs Bullseye/Titegroup has different recoil impulse/felt recoil. Bullseye/Titegroup will produce snappy recoil, especially in subcompact pistol and I rather use W231 for practice loads that will be kinder to wrist, especially for practice session lasting several hundred rounds shot with snappy subcompacts. But keep in mind that premium JHP ammunition will produce snappy recoil in subcompact 9mm no matter what.

While Unique is a good powder choice, Walkalong would prefer N340 for higher velocities it can produce (and I would agree). While Power Pistol can produce higher velocities, basketball sized muzzle flash may not be desirable for defensive loads, especially shot from short barrel pistols.

While N340 will produce higher velocities, I would suggest you consider BE-86. I consider BE-86 the modern Unique that meters well and produces very accurate higher velocity loads, even at below near max/max loads. BE-86 has been used by many ammunition manufacturers for decades and recently made available to us reloaders and has a large following - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=760289

plan to shoot 124gr JHP ... for practice

Consider RMR HM bullets for practice. These are thick plated bullets (on par with Speer TMJ used for many factory ammunition) rated to 1500 fps. With harder 11-12 BHN alloy core, they resist bullet setback when bullet nose slams on the feeding ramp and produce accuracy up to 1500 fps without plating failure at substantially lower price (They are now my designated reference bullets for accuracy and for carbine loads to 1500 fps) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=10245856#post10245856

RMR 124 gr HM RN $76.95/1000 shipped (with 5% THR discount) - https://rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets...24-gr-rmr-hardcore-match-round-nose-plated-2/

BTW, RMR also sells jacketed bullets. While I have used Montana Gold jacketed bullets for decades, I am transitioning to RMR jacketed bullets as I use them up.

 

[Rule3]

I've done a little looking around, and I've seen that short barrels can be tricky to get up to velocity, making faster powders a better bet.

The above is not entirely correct, The powders that give the highest velocity in longer barrels will do the same in shorter ones.

The 9mm is a high pressure round and medium to medium slow powder will give you more zip. That said a powder like PP will give the velocity but also more flash and noise. I have not tried BE 86 but something with a flash suppressant may be the ticket.

As to the liability thing, that horse has been beaten to death so many times,

 

[Rmeju]

Thanks all, and a special thanks to bds for a particularly informative post.

I'm not particularly concerned about using reloads for carry purposes... So long as I'm making good ammo. I'm not comfortable carrying my own 9mm yet, but I'd like to be.

As for the legal side of carrying reloads, as it happens, I'm a lawyer by trade. From my perspective, in the unlikely event the issue ever came up, I would be "happy" if the other side spent its energy focusing on that issue, since it is IMO, a very, very weak argument for either guilt or liability.* You never know what will play with your particular jury, and the other side is free to cobble together whatever argument they can, but if that's the best they've got, it would be more likely to put me at ease than it would cause me to lose any sleep.

*I'm not your lawyer, and this is not real legal advice. It is an internet post from an anonymous person you don't know, and should not be relied upon by you. Apologies. Needed to be said.

 

[LiveLife]

I agree. Justified shooting is justified shooting whether you used factory ammunition or your reloads.

My reason for using factory ammunition for defensive loads is I rather hand the police the box of ammunition defensive rounds came from instead of police taking my reloading equipment/components for the duration of the investigation.

For this reason, I buy 50 round boxes of premium ammunition instead of 20 from SGAmmo - http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pistol-ammo-sale

 

[Rule3]

Thanks all, and a special thanks to bds for a particularly informative post.

I'm not particularly concerned about using reloads for carry purposes... So long as I'm making good ammo. I'm not comfortable carrying my own 9mm yet, but I'd like to be.

As for the legal side of carrying reloads, as it happens, I'm a lawyer by trade. From my perspective, in the unlikely event the issue ever came up, I would be "happy" if the other side spent its energy focusing on that issue, since it is IMO, a very, very weak argument for either guilt or liability.* You never know what will play with your particular jury, and the other side is free to cobble together whatever argument they can, but if that's the best they've got, it would be more likely to put me at ease than it would cause me to lose any sleep.

*I'm not your lawyer, and this is not real legal advice. It is an internet post from an anonymous person you don't know, and should not be relied upon by you. Apologies. Needed to be said.

Well as you derailed your own thread

No one has ever been able to post a specific case where someone was found guilty of a "bad" shooting based solely on the use of reloaded ammo,

And we are off................

 

[evtSmtx]

so we're supposed to trust some random, anonymous guy on the internet when he says he's "not a lawyer"?

 

[evtSmtx]

and regarding " solely on the use of reloaded ammo", can anyone demonstrate that there are no cases where reloaded ammo was a factor or that there is a significant number of cases where that point was stressed that did result in conviction? You seem to seek certainty in knowing how juries decide that's just not demonstrable.

 

[LiveLife]

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, so take my opinions posted on THR with a grain of salt and form your own conclusions or seek the advice of a competent attorney.

evtSmtx, reloading your own defensive ammunition vs factory has been discussed to death in multiple threads and as far as I know there has yet to be a case where simply using reloads for justified shooting resulted in a conviction.

Simply, justified shooting is justified shooting, use of reloads vs factory is less of an issue.

Now, as I already posted, I prefer to use factory ammunition just because I do not want my reloading equipment and components taken by the police for the duration of investigation (that could last months/years). It's easier for me to hand the factory ammunition box to police from which my defensive ammunition came from along with the pistol used for defensive shooting (So keep the factory box handy for police if you use factory ammunition ).

If you are interested in past discussions, there are many:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=618021

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=724791

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=758983

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Just remember, the words fast and slow powders are relative terms when it comes to handgun powders. Rifle ammo and powders are very different than handgun ammo and powders.

The load that will deliver the highest velocity in a 5" barrel will deliver the highest velocity in a 3" barrel. When loading handgun ammo accuracy should be most important, not velocity. All the velocity in the world will do you no good unless you get hits.

 

[RandyP]

I reload 9mm, and other calibers, and use the same ammo in all my 9's. For practice work, and especially considering 'practical' self defense distances (namely the length of a rowboat) it just doesn't matter what ammo or load you use. Find a combo that works in your firearms and giddy-up!

All the other factors involved in actually hitting what you aim at are far more important in this old fart's opinion than the actual round in the chamber. But then at 67 I've 'only' been shooting for 55 years now so what do I know - lol

I buy my carry ammo (anything hollow point that functions well and has SD on the box)and run a mag of it thru the guns occasionally just to confirm function.

At day's end you only got to keep you happy, and it's too easy to over-think ammo choice.

Me? I've been more than delighted maintaining MOD (Minute of Dead) accuracy for over 5 decades. it keeps ME happy.

ETA - IF you are on a pistol team bullseye shooting (and yes I used be on the one at Fr Bragg before going to Vietnam) then perhaps minute ammo details might be important, but even back then we were just supplied standard ball ammo for competitions from general stock.

 

[hdwhit]

egd wrote:

Maybe I'll get reamed here...

Not by me. What you're saying sounds completely reasonable.