Reloading/handloading out of necessity...

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ballman6711

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Something I read in another thread (Why they wore gunbelts) got me thinking. Back in the "Wild West" (and earlier, think civil war and even earlier) people reloaded or handloaded their own ammo. I figure it was mostly out of necessity, since you couldn't just run down to the LGS and buy ammo. Even if there was a shop around what was the chance that they had the ammo you needed? And if they did, how much of it would they have?

Did these guys load ammo at night sitting around the fire before going into battle the next day? Or before a big buffalo hunt? And how much ammo did they make at one time? Weight had to be a big consideration back then as well. You didn't just load the truck with all your stuff, although you may have done so with your wagon. But they still had to consider what the horse/horses could carry or pull.

Personally, I don't currently reload out of necessity, but I could if it came down to that.

chris
 
ballman6711 said:
Back in the "Wild West" (and earlier, think civil war and even earlier) people reloaded or handloaded their own ammo.
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If you go back far enough, ("think civil war and even earlier") there weren't any metallic cartridges to reload. "Loading" a muzzle loader, or a cap and ball revolver is "handloading." ;)
Edited to say: sorry ballman6711 - you posted while I was still typing.:)
 
I'd imagine that every town had a hardware or general store that sold ammunition. 44-40, 45 Colt, and a couple of others fulfilled most peoples needs. They probably cherished each box and didn't shoot as much as the movies made it out to be.

Maybe some hand loading went on as well, I don't really know. I've read that the Indians reloaded 45-70 without sizing the cases..
 
I would think any town that had a general store would have ammo for sale. But commercial hunters (buffalo hunters) that burned up a lot of ammo would reload their own for cost savings,space savings, and convenience...
 
I remember reading that Gunsmiths loaded ammo for sale as well as selling guns so there was that. In cap and ball days a good bit was paper cartridges into the revolver era, those can be hand made.
 
I've always thought about the EOTW scenarios, if you had a few dozen sets of reloading dies and a simple single stage press you could make just about anything imaginable with available components. For instance if you Had a 30/30 , but find a stash of .308 the bullets could be pulled , a powder charge extrapolated from the pulled powder, primer very carefully persuaded out of its pocket if you were lucky, and used. A single "0" buckshot load could load quite a few 32 caliber H&R shells. The powder might not be ideal, but it would push a round ball out of a revolver. The partisans of WW2 improvised all sorts of similar stuff in their basements,and backrooms. Have watched videos of Pakistanis using some type of cannon powder to reload 7.62x39 with very crude equipment. I never sell any of my reloading dies, and if I'm putting an order together on Midway, I always check to see if there's any Lee RGB die sets that are calling my name.Its also why I keep several old reloading manuals around.and save several of the powder companies files on my hard drive.
 
Yeah but most Kentucky rifles were sold with a roundball mold. I wonder how many back then had something similar to a Lyman 310 tong tool? I know they were manufactured,but how widespread eas their use?
 
Hank McMauser said:
Yeah but most Kentucky rifles were sold with a roundball mold. I wonder how many back then had something similar to a Lyman 310 tong tool? I know they were manufactured,but how widespread eas their use?
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Casting bullets for muzzle stuffers was a very different demand than reloading ammunition. Black powder and round ball molds (especially pertinent since not every gun barrel was consistent in diameter) are also well documented in history as sundry items. Not so much metallic cartridge reloading components.
 
I've always reloaded, ever since I bought my first revolver in the early 1980's. I reload when I have no ammo. I stocked up on components when I thought there might be a President Dukakis. Prices on nearly everything have gone up since then. I think folks who don't reload are spending way too much.
 
In 1874, Winchester introduced a compact reloading tool designed to travel. This was undoubtedly used on various frontiers. I've seen them turn up locally at flea markets from barn finds along with the Lyman tools from the early 20th century. MN around the 1880-s through 1920 wasn't the Wild West, but it certainly WAS the frontier complete with subsistence and market hunting. No doubt the big woods hunters who went out in search of Venison Saddle for market carried these tools. https://www.reloadingtool.com/winchester-reloading-tools
 
I recall in reading Elmer Keith's book Hell I was there, In it he talked about shooting his revolver out in front of a herd of sheep to turn them back. He wrote about reloading ammunition at night to resupply. I am guessing that was around 1925 though.
 
ballman6711 said:
Weight had to be a big consideration back then as well. You didn't just load the truck with all your stuff, although you may have done so with your wagon. But they still had to consider what the horse/horses could carry or pull.
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The slaughter in the south began in earnest in 1874 and was over by 1878. In the north the great hunts began in 1880 and were over by 1884.
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If your going to kill millions, some estimates are as high as 60 million, in such a short time frame, it’s going to be a fact your going to need to haul a lot of stuff and they didn’t go out for just the day.

Hunting camps often numbered about four men. A group of that size, preparing for a three-month hunt, needed a considerable amount of specialized equipment and supplies, including two two-horse teams hitched to light wagons. One of the wagons hauled the provisions and camp outfit, which might consist of one medium and one large-sized Dutch oven, three large frying pans, two coffeepots, camp kettles, bread pans, a coffee mill, tin cups, plates, knives, forks, spoons, pothooks, a meat broiler, shovels, spades, axes, a mess box, and so forth. The other wagon hauled the bedding, ammunition, two extra guns, a grindstone, war sacks, and the like. For the three months' hunt, the amount of ammunition required was 250 pounds of lead in bars done up in twenty-five pound sacks, 4,000 primers, and three twenty-five-pound cans of powder. Of the four men, ordinarily two were hunters and two cooks and skinners.
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https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/buffalo-hunting
 
https://www.reloadingtool.com/winchester-reloading-tools Same link as above, just put here for convenience. Bad ice fishing weather here, so I've been reading the other links from their home page, and really gone down a rabbit hole of early cartridge and primer development. A very interesting read, highly recommend! Learned a lot of information, and killed a few sacred cows of reloading myth that I've carried along the way! The biggest takeaway, was that early cartridge patents as pursued by Win, Rem, and FA (and comically blundered by FA!) were taking steps towards the primary goal of RELOADABLE centerfire brass cartridges, with much focus placed on the reloadability aspect.

Of special note is the "kansas tool" link. This coincides perfectly with the time frame and geography of the Southern buffalo hunts. I would suspect Buffalo hunting outfits would have had the capital and incentive to comission such a one-off custom made tool as it was likely as expensive as a new rifle, perhaps moreso.
 
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According to my grandfather, when his dad was younger they ordered everything from the Sears catalog and got it delivered to the farm COD. This was in Iowa around the 1880’s. Great grandad didn’t do much that was mechanical. I’m pretty sure that was at great grandma’s insistence.
 
I highly doubt that soldiers in the early stages of metallic cartridges were expected to handload any more ammo than are current soldiers. I've heard war stories first hand from different generations in my own family, with the earliest being my great-grandfather who served in WWI. Granted, he died in the early 80's when I was pretty young, but there was never a mention of collecting brass from the battlefield to reload. Nor from great uncle's in WWII, both grandpa's in Korea, cousins in Vietnam, etc...
Seems they were always kept pretty busy doing other stuff.
 
I always wondered how many severely leaded barrels were being carried buy people that didn't know any better and thought their gun was accurate.
Always wondered about that. Sure the people that relyed on their hunting and shooting skills to stay alive would know but the everyday farmer or cowboy probably didn't have a clue.
Or maybe I watched to many westerns with naive settlers from the east that are clueless to what's ahead of them.
 
I’ve read about making homemade black powder and molding their own round balls, pre-civil war. Then loading the gun after each shot.

Sounds about like we do today. Just feeding a gun.
 
A lot is speculation.
I'm sure back in the day they traded Furs and other stuff for bullets and used them wisely.

I'd speculate if they did a little of shooting they kept with blackpowder and lead balls or conical.

Back then they rode horses and couldn't carry much.
 
John Barlow invented and marketed the hand reloading tools to compliment the first centerfire Winchester rifles; the model of 1873. Prior to that, the 66 and Henry of course we’re rimfire.

There was of course smith and Wesson centerfire revolvers starting at 1868-69 and then the Russian in 1870. But ammunition was sold for these and not components.

Barlow began selling his tools and reloading manual under the ideal label and also convinced Winchester to carry them as accessories for some rifles. So after the invent of the 73 rifle and during the later mines west, it would have been commonplace for someone away from the beaten path to reload for their weapon.

It would have been commonplace for a well off city dude to buy ammo for his shooting needs.
 
A lot of interesting points being made. If you lived twenty miles outside of town, you probably didn't go there very often, and when you did you made sure to get everything you thought you might need.

Settlers going west would be completely different than a "dandy" living in a large city. The settlers would likely need a bullet here and there, mostly for putting meat on the table. Buffalo hunters would obviously be different again, needing large amounts of ammo for their hunting.

Thinking more about this, most back then probably didn't just burn up a hundred rounds when practicing. I would think a few shots, maybe a cylinder if it was a revolver, and they were done.

chris
 
ballman6711 said:
Thinking more about this, most back then probably didn't just burn up a hundred rounds when practicing. I would think a few shots, maybe a cylinder if it was a revolver, and they were done.
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Yeah, that’s a bit different than being a commercial hunter. I never talked to many that were that old but more than a few that lived through the depression. Seems to me many meals were gathered with .22 rimfire and lots of biscuits were served…
 
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