Reloading = Irrational OCD

[.308 Norma]

And some of us buy guns in oddball chamberings just because we think it will be fun to develop loads for them.

 

[LiveLife]

Someone above said you have to have a "touch" of OCD?! Geez. I think we have to be slightly insane and totally OCD to be very successful at what we do.

Well, at times my "touch" of OCD can be a bit more.

Even for pistol load development and testing, to maintain consistency:

- Weighing bullets to sort with less than 0.5 gr variance
- Trickling every powder charge to be exact
- Ensuring primers are seated at least .004" below flush
- Making sure taper crimps are within .001"
- Incrementally seating bullets shorter for consistent OAL and seating depth
- Checking to make sure chambered OAL doesn't deviate from finished OAL

You know, just a "touch"

 

[Varminterror]

Why?

Who says you can't do both?

Read the post before getting your panties in a twist.

So it really depends where upon that spectrum you fall. If you enjoy both equally, you'll certainly stay busy and certainly stay broke as your time and money get committed to both equipment improvement AND cartridge and component comparison

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Read the post before getting your panties in a twist.

Read the post before getting your panties in a twist.

Excuse me! First no need to be rude.
Second no need to be offensive nor take offense
Third I was replying to Varminterror'a comment which I quoted and and offerered what I thought was a respectful point. The point being that they were making a claim of two mutually exclusive options and I felt the options were not mutually exclusive. I then explained why.

I'm sorry if this upset you, but A) I think my response was valid and relevant B) there was no reason for you to be rude to me like this C) if you disagree with me that's great but why not be respectful and offer an alternative view D) if my post wasn't clear or wrong how about civilly letting me know why instead of being offensive. E) if I did something wrong again pointing it out civilly goes a long way in keeping the forum polite and helping folks, myself included from repeating the mistake.

So again. I'll stand with my response to Varminterror that the options they offered were not mutually exclusive. I wasn't trying to be offensive but rather that there are folks like myself who are spending times focusing on loads. And then we flip to making a batch of ammo to enjoy shooting from one of those loads before going back to trying to make the loads even better.

Relating back to the original post, as a fairly new reloaded and as an engineer, I'm very OCD about my processes. I try to do things the same way each time. I put a great deal of time into checking my powder and making sure it's exact. Making sure my brass is the same and taking decent notes.

When I'm working up loads however I work much slower than when I'm loading up 100 or two hundred rounds to go enjoy shooting!

 

[RealGun]

I wonder if irrational OCD is the definition of a hobby? I do not know, but it struck me recently that it certainly seems to be the definition of my reloading. I started this game to save money when I was shooting Skeet competitively - really saved a LOT for that. But metallic reloading is different.

Way back in the 1970s, when I read that you could make more accurate ammunition by reloading than you could buy at the store, I thought it might be worth while to work up a standard load for the few calibers I shot and then just fill a box or two as needed. I have never shot any handgun or rifle competitively, so I really did not need high volume or ultra accuracy. Frankly, just about any ammo is plenty accurate for just punching holes in paper, ringing a gong, or the average hunt. Even with crappy ammo you can occasionally luck into good groups and feel proud about it! In fact, I do not shoot at ANYTHING less than 25 yards just because it seems so pointless (even with my CCW) - what skill is there in hitting something with a gun when you can do just as well with a rock?

So why do I have over 20 different powders and thousands upon thousands of bullets and primers stacked up in my reloading room? I must be crazy. I only shoot a few different calibers in both handgun and rifle: .38/357, .40 S&W, .44, .22-250, .270, .308 (YUCK), and .30-06. For all of those combined, I could get by with only about three powders. And back when I used to buy ammo off-the-shelf, I never obsessed over it - any box with the right bullet weight was just fine. So when I reload, I should just have a standard load for each purpose and be done with it, right?

But Noooooo, I just cannot do that. I have to load up at least 8 or 10 different combinations in just a simple caliber like .38 Spl to punch holes at 25 yards and compare them; I have to spend hours studying chrono numbers and standard deviations while trying to cross reference each shot with the particular hole it made. I have to spend more hours going back though my logs to try and understand why today's results do not exactly match those from months or years ago. Yeah, with some loads I can shoot 2" groups at 25 yards with my Blackhawk, and other loads I can only manage 6" groups, but so what? Why can't I just pick one of the good ones and stick with it? I must be crazy.

Sigh . . .

The weather is nice today, so I guess I'll go out and load up some new bullets in .22-250 and see how well they kill paper.

There is more...in terms of hand guns, why shoot from a rest and obsess about how well you do at 25 yards? I often see indication of shooters bringing a rifle mindset to handguns. I feel good about how well I do at 50 feet and believe that is more like what I would be shooting in a defensive situation, even hunting. Holding the gun steady, maintaining sight picture, while getting a good trigger squeeze and while free standing, no leaning on the bench, is part of the practice and skill. It is an imperfect process, so there lies the OCD pitfall. But whatever one calls fun...

 

[RealGun]

Excuse me! First no need to be rude.
Second no need to be offensive nor take offense
Third I was replying to Varminterror'a comment which I quoted and and offerered what I thought was a respectful point. The point being that they were making a claim of two mutually exclusive options and I felt the options were not mutually exclusive. I then explained why.

I'm sorry if this upset you, but A) I think my response was valid and relevant B) there was no reason for you to be rude to me like this C) if you disagree with me that's great but why not be respectful and offer an alternative view D) if my post wasn't clear or wrong how about civilly letting me know why instead of being offensive. E) if I did something wrong again pointing it out civilly goes a long way in keeping the forum polite and helping folks, myself included from repeating the mistake.

So again. I'll stand with my response to Varminterror that the options they offered were not mutually exclusive. I wasn't trying to be offensive but rather that there are folks like myself who are spending times focusing on loads. And then we flip to making a batch of ammo to enjoy shooting from one of those loads before going back to trying to make the loads even better.

Relating back to the original post, as a fairly new reloaded and as an engineer, I'm very OCD about my processes. I try to do things the same way each time. I put a great deal of time into checking my powder and making sure it's exact. Making sure my brass is the same and taking decent notes.

When I'm working up loads however I work much slower than when I'm loading up 100 or two hundred rounds to go enjoy shooting!

I hope you value THR like I do. I thought your post was thoughtful and made sense. Try to ignore when someone goes off on a post, perhaps thinking better of it later.

 

[RealGun]

I bought some new IMR Target at the gun show this weekend. I need it like I need another hole in my head. Yea, I have a number of different powders around that I have tried or use. I almost bought some IMR Green too, and kind of wish I had. Curiosity killed the cat. Trying new stuff is fun.

I collect powders and holsters, just like the guns and the loads. That's my excuse.

 

[RealGun]

It keeps your mind sharp.
Also, when dealing with explosive components, a little OCD is a good thing.

Kinda like gun safety, an obsessive thing if there ever was one.

 

[fpgt72]

And some of us buy guns in oddball chamberings just because we think it will be fun to develop loads for them.

That is what got me into it....you are not going to the wallsmart and picking up 6.5 carcano, or 7.5 French, or 30-40 Krag....or......

It is also fun to play with the loads on these old guns....with surplus if you get one that has a good bore it should shoot well....getting the most out of that is the fun for me.

 

[JackSprat]

To me it's a vicious circle,I sometimes get the notion to load all my components and quit,but then I'll do a quick inventory in my head,and figure out that I need to buy powder to keep all these bullets from going to waste,or vise versa,So then I go buy more reloading goods to "ballance things out",Then the vicious circle starts again,

 

[Newtosavage]

Which comes first... the OCD or the hobby?

 

[Walkalong]

The OCD.

 

[berettaprofessor]

Agree with Walkalong. We've simply gravitated to a colony of others with our disease.

 

[jmorris]

When I was a kid people were meticulous, now in a world where no one can win and everyone gets the same awards, people that strive for perfection have some sort of disorder...

 

[Varminterror]

I'll stand with my response to Varminterror

As an OCD engineer, I can't help but point out the irony in your response to mine.

I quoted myself in my response to you above because you had obviously read the start of my post and did not read the closing. In this case, you read the post but not the poster - me, Varminterror.

So again, I'll call attention to the fact you posted your quote of MY post without reading the entire post, because the ending statement in my post - which I quoted in my response to you above - specifically called out the fact reloaders and handloader a can be both, and we all fall on that spectrum somewhere between ammo producer and ammo developer. Being in the middle is more costly than either end, because you spend time, effort, and capital on both aspects, which is where I, like yourself, alluded that I fall myself.

So my my count, you haven't read closely either of my posts, but have obviously taken offense when I tried to point that out. No offense was intended, so my apology for expecting a thicker skin. I'll overlook the offense I could take in your post criticizing my own when it was clear you didn't actually read it before firing your shot across my bow. Twice.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

As an OCD engineer, I can't help but point out the irony in your response to mine.

I quoted myself in my response to you above because you had obviously read the start of my post and did not read the closing. In this case, you read the post but not the poster - me, Varminterror.

So again, I'll call attention to the fact you posted your quote of MY post without reading the entire post, because the ending statement in my post - which I quoted in my response to you above - specifically called out the fact reloaders and handloader a can be both, and we all fall on that spectrum somewhere between ammo producer and ammo developer. Being in the middle is more costly than either end, because you spend time, effort, and capital on both aspects, which is where I, like yourself, alluded that I fall myself.

So my my count, you haven't read closely either of my posts, but have obviously taken offense when I tried to point that out. No offense was intended, so my apology for expecting a thicker skin. I'll overlook the offense I could take in your post criticizing my own when it was clear you didn't actually read it before firing your shot across my bow. Twice.

The only offense I took was with the pantry in a wad comment. Everything else is just discussion. That came across as rude to me.

That saying will fire up my fight instinct!

Not to make excuses but I suffer from insomnia so when I can't sleep I'll see what's been posted. Obviously at an early hour I'm not as sharp as normal.
I guess I missed a few things, so yea it's silly to argue when you're agreeing!

So other then a little offense taken at a comment I'm quick to forgive and forget. In fact it takes an awful lot for me to hold a grudge. And an annoying comment usually won't do it. As you saw it'll just fire up the fight instinct and a bit of a defensive post!

Anyway thanks for being civil and I'm not sure what way to say "me bad" would make the most sense. So hope this is ok!

 

[Ironicaintit]

I used to keep shotgun wads in the pantry.
Then I gave up on shotgun loading. That, and casting lead just don't appeal to me...yet.

I thought I was OCD, but some of you guys really do take it to the next level.

I guess I'm OCD about safety, and that's really it. My boy may shoot these some day, so I take it pretty seriously. The ammo I make is pretty accurate and all, but I also need it still to function in a variety of pieces, so I do compromise a bit when chasing down the real tight groups and extreme "accuracy".

 

[Varminterror]

The only offense I took was with the pantry in a wad comment. Everything else is just discussion. That came across as rude to me.

That saying will fire up my fight instinct!

Not to make excuses but I suffer from insomnia so when I can't sleep I'll see what's been posted. Obviously at an early hour I'm not as sharp as normal.
I guess I missed a few things, so yea it's silly to argue when you're agreeing!

So other then a little offense taken at a comment I'm quick to forgive and forget. In fact it takes an awful lot for me to hold a grudge. And an annoying comment usually won't do it. As you saw it'll just fire up the fight instinct and a bit of a defensive post!

Anyway thanks for being civil and I'm not sure what way to say "me bad" would make the most sense. So hope this is ok!

Trading paint is part of racing (as I'm told; not actually a racing fan). No worries.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Trading paint is part of racing (as I'm told; not actually a racing fan). No worries.

I grew up a fan of the King. (Richard Petty) I even got to see him dump his own son in a race for a position.

So yea "Rubin is racin"

Anyway as they say

It's all good!

 

[LiveLife]

Way back in the 1970s, when I read that you could make more accurate ammunition by reloading than you could buy at the store, I thought it might be worth while to work up a standard load for the few calibers I shot and then just fill a box or two as needed.

I wonder if irrational OCD is the definition of a hobby? I do not know, but it struck me recently that it certainly seems to be the definition of my reloading.

Getting back to OP.

I got into reloading when I shot USPSA matches in the 90s. I tested different factory ammunition and used the most accurate ammunition from the tests but all the seasoned match shooters suggested I start reloading to shrink my shot group size. A seasoned bullseye match shooter who I worked with took me under his wings and taught me to reload. With my initial match loads from Dillon 550/Lee Pro 1000, my shot groups shrank by 40% and I haven't used factory ammunition for match shooting since.

So for me, OCD and reloading became a necessity instead of consideration for a hobby.

So why do I have over 20 different powders and thousands upon thousands of bullets and primers stacked up in my reloading room? I must be crazy.

No, you are not crazy. If you look at some other hobbies like fishing, you will often end up with many different poles, reels, lures, flashers and sinkers along with various tackle/tools. Same with painting where you end up with different brushes, paints and palettes. I also pursue cooking/BBQ as a hobby and have several sets of knives, pots/pans and various utensils (I have over 10 of each whisks and tongs alone).

Why do some of us eat cheese burgers with grilled onions instead of just hamburger? For those of you who think hamburger is hamburger, check out these Stuffed Donut Burgers by the BBQ Pit Boys (Warning: Food Porn!)

Those of us that are "hobbyists" will have various tools and supplies that support our hobby. My brother-in-law rebuilds and restores cars as his hobby and his shop is more than twice the size of his house with multitude of tools. Believe me, my OCD with hobby of reloading is nothing compared to his.

 

[LiveLife]

And back when I used to buy ammo off-the-shelf, I never obsessed over it - any box with the right bullet weight was just fine. So when I reload, I should just have a standard load for each purpose and be done with it, right? But Noooooo, I just cannot do that. I have to load up at least 8 or 10 different combinations in just a simple caliber like .38 Spl to punch holes at 25 yards and compare them; I have to spend hours studying chrono numbers and standard deviations while trying to cross reference each shot with the particular hole it made. I have to spend more hours going back though my logs to try and understand why today's results do not exactly match those from months or years ago.

Not crazy. It is what we do. Would you eat canned tuna if fresh tuna was available? How about canned beef stew or MRE ration if you could eat made from scratch beef stew or restaurant food?

Yeah, with some loads I can shoot 2" groups at 25 yards with my Blackhawk, and other loads I can only manage 6" groups, but so what?

There are reloaders who reload for economy of being able to produce ammunition at half to third of retail price and if their reloads produce decent accuracy, they are happy. But for some of us "hobbyists", decent accuracy is not good enough and our curiosity will often take us on a journey to test every reloading variable to produce the most consistent and accurate loads.

There are people who are happy with using canned and dried products for their cooking. For some of us, we are not content unless we hand select fresh produce for our "made from scratch" cooking. I used to make chili and chili verde from canned and dried products. Now I make chili with different fresh chiles and chili verde from fresh tomatillos and pablano/jalapeno peppers.

In the same way, me going back to using factory ammunition would be going back to shooting "lower grade" ammunition. Over the years, I have shot factory ammunition and found the quality has dropped on the "value" white box/target ammunition. Even my range/plinking grade ammunition loaded with cheapest reloading components are more accurate than factory ammunition. So why should I pay more to shoot ammunition I will be disappointed with?

So I continue on reloading. I am always on a lookout for the next recipe that will tantalize my taste buds and curious about the latest reloading products that may produce even greater reloading consistency. Reloaders used to shoot a lot of lubed cast bullets with leading issues. Now, many have switched to powder/coated bullets that do not require lube without the leading issues. Plated bullets used to be "economy" bullets that lacked the accuracy of jacketed bullets. Now we have Speer Gold Dot HP and thick plated bullets that outperform the accuracy of many jacketed bullets.

 

[LiveLife]

Why can't I just pick one of the good ones and stick with it? I must be crazy.

I tested Bullseye/Clays/WST/Titegroup/W231/Universal/WSF/HS-6 for my 9mm/40S&W/45ACP match loads and used my favored match loads I was happy with as my reference loads for years.

I could have gone to my grave shooting boringly consistent W231/HP-38 loads: 200 gr SWC with 5.0 gr for 45ACP, 165 gr JHP with 5.0 gr for 40S&W and 115 gr FMJ with 4.8 gr for 9mm. But I continued and tested Red Dot/Promo/Green Dot/N320/Unique/BE-86/PowerPistol/Herco/AutoComp/CFE Pistol to find more loads I liked - Promo 9mm/45ACP plinking loads and Herco/BE-86 for accurate 40S&W loads. So far, BE-86 has produced smallest 40S&W 25 yard shot groups and when I started testing 9mm carbine loads, Promo produced the lowest SD load with smallest 50 yard shot groups and both of these loads were shot with RMR's thick plated bullets, not jacketed. Holes on target speak volumes. Unless you keep testing different reloading components, how will you know?

Call me crazy but I just received IMR's new Target/Red/Green powders along with Vectan Ba9.5 and 9 powders which are supposed to be comparable to Alliant Bullseye/Red Dot/Green Dot and Vihtavuori powders - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-vectan-ba-9-5-ba-9.817796/#post-10490012

So I pursue another powder work up journey. Life is short and that's what I choose to do. I am the curious type who has to turn over all the rocks. Who knows, may be I will find more powders I like.

 

[Walkalong]

boringly consistent W231/HP-38 loads: 200 gr SWC with 5.0 gr for 45ACP

I have shot a bunch of those as well (Actually any 200, 225, or 230 Gr bullet, but lots and lots of 200 Gr LSWCs), starting over 30 years ago. It just works, and still does.

The number of powders available to us now is mind boggling compared to 30 and 40 years ago. It must drive the brand new reloader nuts.

 

[fpgt72]

When I was a kid people were meticulous, now in a world where no one can win and everyone gets the same awards, people that strive for perfection have some sort of disorder...

I don't think that is it....some stuff I would call OCD here others not.

Me personally I will check each and every powder charge and length.....it is calming to me. I will weigh a primed case, zero the scale charge the case and weigh it again. Some say that is crazy.....eh to each their own.....and I do this only on rounds I am trying to make JUST correct....most things I will check every 5 or 10.

I got into reloading because I love old military guns.....if you can drop the price from $2 per bang to around $0.75 per bang that is a real good thing. But in talking to people that don't reload I tell them you don't save any money....it might cost you more money in the long run....now I go out and shoot more often.....so it does cost more but the smile to bang ratio is much higher.

 

[Ghost In The Fog]

When I was a kid people were meticulous, now in a world where no one can win and everyone gets the same awards, people that strive for perfection have some sort of disorder...

This is a really good post.
When I was a kid, there was no trophy for participation.... You had to do things- anything- right or there were consequences. You played to win and that meant doing everything to the best of your ability. I am not talking just about sports. Why is it I strive to have the best reloads, make sure I check and recheck every detail, test and retest and on and on and I am OCD?
Maybe we were raised with the mindset of if you are going to do something, do it to the best of your ability and this is how that shows itself. A bunch of kooky perfectionist sharing experiences? Who knows but that's my thoughts on the subject.