Reloading misconceptions.

[Airborne Falcon]

LOL, truth. Then again....random guy on the internet doesn't have a lawyer proofreading his publications either..."do we really need to go up those last 2 grains on the max load? Can we just back that off a little bit?" ~ Hodgdon Attorney looking at the max load data for 44 Magnum

I had to genuinely lol having just loaded 500 rounds of 44 Mag yesterday for my 1894, getting ready for pig season .... always amazed at Hodgdon's (what is it, 24.8 grains of H110 for a 240 grain projectile, I think Speer's is 24 max) .... amazed at Hodgdon's load data for 44 Mag when they are often too conservative with most other calibers. My sweet spot is 23.6-23.8, H110/296.

While reminiscing about my Grandfather above ... I forgot to simply state the common misconception.

The common misconception being .... you don't have to spend $1000s of dollars to get into reloading. Lee Loaders are a good start and, in a pinch, shooters have been reloading with much less for a century or more.

 

[Airborne Falcon]

Means they reached XX pressure with the barrel/chamber reamer, components, conditions and methods used for their tests. I have seen data vary using the same powder for the same everything else.

For example we know that W296 and H110 are the same powder sold under different labels but Hornady came up with two different sets of data for them with everything else identical.

Kind of makes you think when the two are separated by 2.3 grains, that is a pretty significant amount of lot to lot variation. Make me curious about their method(s).

View attachment 1058430

I suppose my misconception was that everything would be exact and repeatable but it’s not, even on the same page…

I had a buddy who shot six gun competitions with two match 686s and he would literally mix whatever batches of H110 and 296 he had, mix them together, and just keep his hopper full of the mix for months at a time. Shooting, reloading, shooting, reloading ... all pre-pandemic of course but he always assumed what you just suggested ... it all comes down to batches. I dunno, makes sense.

 

[dtwalters]

"Weiner" is the slang, actually "weaner". Means a young pig just off the teat, or in this case, a young european boar, of which there are a bazillion in GE, and all throughout all the training areas.

Thank you for the clarification!

 

[Airborne Falcon]

If he was answering a question asking for an opinion it may have been a misconception. Making a blanket statement, no connection to thread topic, is typical for a narrow minded tool snob...

I never saw it ... I must already have him on my ignore list. I only have one in all these years. It's a rare thing to see around here.

 

[CQB45ACP]

At the current cost of beef.......if I get drawn for elk this year, it might actually save me some money!!!!!

I’m not an elk fan nor much game on the hoof at all for that matter. Unless game also includes waterfowl then I’m all in.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I’m not an elk fan nor much game on the hoof at all for that matter. Unless game also includes waterfowl then I’m all in.

i never met a Meat I didn’t like!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Yes, I live in AZ. Here's how hunting bull elk goes down. You apply every year.....after a decade you build up enough points to score a bull hunt. My last one was archery, so when I got drawn, had to get a new bow of course...that was about 2k all said and done. It's for a specific date in a specific hunt area...the area I put in for is south west of Flagstaff. A 5 hour drive. Archery is a 2 week hunt. So I use up 2 weeks of vaction. Two weeks of camping supplies, propane, etc. Diesel for the drive up...fuel for gennies, Side-by-side, etc. Probably costs me 5K all said and done for the trip, butcher bill is usually around 400.00, as I get a lot of summer sausage, brats, etc so that is always extra. Add in 2 weeks of vacation. That elk was a small guy, 5x5. Probably 800lbs on the hoof. I probably got 250lbs of meat once it was butchered (boned out).

Deer is even worse, I hunt near my house....we have the "elusive" coues deer. A nice 4x4 basket rack comes in at 150lbs max on the hoof in a good year.......all said and done, you end up with about a thousand dollar sandwich.

Well I guess I can understand why y’all are soured on hunting given all that. The last lottery hunt I went on was in 1998 at the Dexter-Mary farms preserve in Volusia chty. That’s about a three hour drive from home. No deer, just pigs, no limits but you had to present the animal intact to a FnG official for cataloging. Huge pain but the state was paying fair money for adult males. The fires had wiped hundreds of acres in 97 and the FWC wanted to see how the area was recovering and get rid of the pigs. They’re destructive critters.
So a bunch of residents got paid to go hunting. Didn’t get to keep the meat though.

 

[Bazoo]

Hunting here is cheap. Landowner doesn't need anything. Just shoot during season and call it in for deer. Or elk too if you are lucky to have elk on your property outside a zone.

But even deer on public land is not too expensive. License and tags are about $40-$50. License covers small game too.

And I do save plenty of money reloading. A box of 44 special is about $50. I just loaded 200 for an estimated cost of $20, a high estimate.

Buy used gear, and don't buy it all and you save tons.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Well I guess I can understand why y’all are soured on hunting given all that. The last lottery hunt I went on was in 1998 at the Dexter-Mary farms preserve in Volusia chty. That’s about a three hour drive from home. No deer, just pigs, no limits but you had to present the animal intact to a FnG official for cataloging. Huge pain but the state was paying fair money for adult males. The fires had wiped hundreds of acres in 97 and the FWC wanted to see how the area was recovering and get rid of the pigs. They’re destructive critters.
So a bunch of residents got paid to go hunting. Didn’t get to keep the meat though.

they need to find a commercial use for them hogs! in Italy, wild hog are prized for ham! and DANG do they taste good and at $25/#

 

[Airborne Falcon]

they need to find a commercial use for them hogs! in Italy, wild hog are prized for ham! and DANG do they taste good and at $25/#

Well, you knowwww, I've lived a lot of years in Italy between my years serving over there in Vicenza (see SETAF insignia on my beret to the left in my picture) and my years following my wife around over there with her working for Finmeccanica Ansaldo STS ... I was a pig killing fool over there. They do have wild pigs over there, Italians are super fans of their pork for sure ... but their pigs, their wild boars, are different than ours. They're actually having a problem with African swine flu over there right now affecting their porkers. And their wild pigs are growing bold ... overrunning parts of Rome even.

We always did eat the pigs we killed over there ... pappardelle and wild boar stew. My wife's Dad made the best pappardelle in the world.

I met one reloader in all the years I lived over there and he and I became good friends. They do not have nearly the choices for components we have over here in the land of the round doorknobs ... VV is just about it in the powder department. They think that everyone in the U.S. reloads ... and ALL of us have twenty guns.

I always told him it's more like thirty ... and even our women reload and shoot. I may have embellished just a bit.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Well, you knowwww, I've lived a lot of years in Italy between my years serving over there in Vicenza (see SETAF insignia on my beret to the left in my picture) and my years following my wife around over there with her working for Finmeccanica Ansaldo STS ... I was a pig killing fool over there. They do have wild pigs over there, Italians are super fans of their pork for sure ... but their pigs, their wild boars, are different than ours. They're actually having a problem with African swine flu over there right now affecting their porkers. And their wild pigs are growing bold ... overrunning parts of Rome even.

We always did eat the pigs we killed over there ... pappardelle and wild boar stew. My wife's Dad made the best pappardelle in the world.

I met one reloader in all the years I lived over there and he and I became good friends. They do not have nearly the choices for components we have over here in the land of the round doorknobs ... VV is just about it in the powder department. They think that everyone in the U.S. reloads ... and ALL of us have twenty guns.

I always told him it's more like thirty ... and even our women reload and shoot. I may have embellished just a bit.

I love Italy, love the people! Italians are masters gun makers and master Ham Curer… (Nothing an Italians can’t cure) Given enough time and salt, everything is delicious and safe

Ciao!

 

[gnappi]

My early misconception was that I'd save money... Riiighttt... Shoot three times as much and there's no savings

 

[kalielkslayer]

Every time I get the "reloading costs more, you just shoot more for less..." etc. blah-blah garbage, I just ask the speaker, "Have you priced a whole hog, lately? How about a whole 150lb deer? How much do you suppose my extra practice and sure-shooting on the trails have saved me in grocery-store costs for meat, annually, over the last four decades or so?" Handloading vs. Reloading is another topic.

Since I usually travel 1,000+ miles to shoot an elk, or deer. And pay high outta state license fees, not including the 14 years of buying a license to apply and build points , that back strap steak costs more than any rib eye I’ve ever eaten.

 

[kalielkslayer]

Yes, I live in AZ. Here's how hunting bull elk goes down. You apply every year.....after a decade you build up enough points to score a bull hunt. My last one was archery, so when I got drawn, had to get a new bow of course...that was about 2k all said and done. It's for a specific date in a specific hunt area...the area I put in for is south west of Flagstaff. A 5 hour drive. Archery is a 2 week hunt. So I use up 2 weeks of vaction. Two weeks of camping supplies, propane, etc. Diesel for the drive up...fuel for gennies, Side-by-side, etc. Probably costs me 5K all said and done for the trip, butcher bill is usually around 400.00, as I get a lot of summer sausage, brats, etc so that is always extra. Add in 2 weeks of vacation. That elk was a small guy, 5x5. Probably 800lbs on the hoof. I probably got 250lbs of meat once it was butchered (boned out).

Deer is even worse, I hunt near my house....we have the "elusive" coues deer. A nice 4x4 basket rack comes in at 150lbs max on the hoof in a good year.......all said and done, you end up with about a thousand dollar sandwich.

5B for elk?

But you enjoyed every minute!!!

I drive 15 hours to hunt that unit, and would do it every year if I could get a tag.

 

[kalielkslayer]

I had to genuinely lol having just loaded 500 rounds of 44 Mag yesterday for my 1894, getting ready for pig season .... always amazed at Hodgdon's (what is it, 24.8 grains of H110 for a 240 grain projectile, I think Speer's is 24 max) .... amazed at Hodgdon's load data for 44 Mag when they are often too conservative with most other calibers. My sweet spot is 23.6-23.8, H110/296.

While reminiscing about my Grandfather above ... I forgot to simply state the common misconception.

The common misconception being .... you don't have to spend $1000s of dollars to get into reloading. Lee Loaders are a good start and, in a pinch, shooters have been reloading with much less for a century or more.

You need 500 rounds to kill a pig?

I get the overkill, but that’s OVERKILL!!!

But having 499 spare rounds is a feeling of comfort, I get that!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Since I usually travel 1,000+ miles to shoot an elk, or deer. And pay high outta state license fees, not including the 14 years of buying a license to apply and build points , that back strap steak costs more than any rib eye I’ve ever eaten.

But none of that has anything to do with whether you’re using boxed shelf commercial ammo or handloads. Unless of course using handloads let’s you practice more and tune bullet performance to your firearm and intended game so when you do get the chance to pull the trigger your bullet placement and wound channel delivers a one-shot kill. Then handloading saved you time and money.

 

[Airborne Falcon]

You need 500 rounds to kill a pig?

I get the overkill, but that’s OVERKILL!!!

But having 499 spare rounds is a feeling of comfort, I get that!

Lol ... yeah ... no.

Our pig season is 24/7/365 and we have a lot of pigs down here we blister between the end of deer season and the beginning of turkey season then on-into the summer right up into deer season again.

It's not unusual for us to down 10-15, sometimes 20 pigs a day if we get on a roll.

I'm reloading for myself, my Son and a close friend on who's property we hunt down around Santee Cooper in the lowcountry. We take a lot here too, down by the river bottoms, but 500 rounds will not be enough.

We have local processors who butcher them for us and then the meat goes to people on the list including Boys Farm and quite a few needy families via Hunters Against Hunger and Sportsmen Against Hunger.

We've got a real pig problem here since the feral intermixing thing happened about twenty-five to thirty years ago. We use pistol straight walled during the dog drive day hunts. Rifles at night with superpowers.

Misconception #348 ... 44 Magnum loaded with 240 gr JSPs over 23.8 grains of H110/296 doesn’t pack much ooomph. Wrong. That load will jar your teeth out of a good carbine and ... that reminds me of another new reloader misconception that I've run into from time to time.

Not all 45-70 platforms are the same and that always has to be taken into consideration when reloading anything. I literally know a guy, named Eddie, who almost blew his face off loading a load rolled for a Marlin levergun into his trapdoor ... it was ugly. Big difference between a trapdoor, a modern levergun and even a Ruger #1 and one or two others. That also applies to bolt guns vs service rifles vs modern ARs, etc., in .308/7.62x51 and 30-06.

When it comes to reloads those are two calibers where one size most definitely not fit all.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Well, you knowwww, I've lived a lot of years in Italy between my years serving over there in Vicenza (see SETAF insignia on my beret to the left in my picture) and my years following my wife around over there with her working for Finmeccanica Ansaldo STS ... I was a pig killing fool over there. They do have wild pigs over there, Italians are super fans of their pork for sure ... but their pigs, their wild boars, are different than ours. They're actually having a problem with African swine flu over there right now affecting their porkers. And their wild pigs are growing bold ... overrunning parts of Rome even.

We always did eat the pigs we killed over there ... pappardelle and wild boar stew. My wife's Dad made the best pappardelle in the world.

I met one reloader in all the years I lived over there and he and I became good friends. They do not have nearly the choices for components we have over here in the land of the round doorknobs ... VV is just about it in the powder department. They think that everyone in the U.S. reloads ... and ALL of us have twenty guns.

I always told him it's more like thirty ... and even our women reload and shoot. I may have embellished just a bit.

Sounds fun. I was assigned to the Achile Lauro/klinghoffer investigation back in the 80s. Our team was to stay at Sigonella…we all looked forward to our off hours and great treatment by our Italian hosts. Then, they needed one guy to instead go to Egypt. I spoke a little (very little) Arabic. Three weeks in Cairo. NO Americans walked the streets in those days and NO ONE trusted the locals. Embassy cafeteria food. What a hole.

 

[EricBu]

5B for elk?

But you enjoyed every minute!!!

I drive 15 hours to hunt that unit, and would do it every year if I could get a tag.

Yeah! I've been hunting 5B since I was a kid, 4 decades plus now, lol.....I've pulled a lot of elk out of there! And the big muleys. We oughta keep in touch, in the event we both get drawn for it!

 

[barnfrog]

Go look up the Bruce Hodgdon story. Railroad cars of surplus powder he and his family bagged by hand... That had to be quite the sight.

I've heard the abridged version. I guess I need to read the whole story. Sounds like quite a tale.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Lol ... yeah ... no.

Our pig season is 24/7/365 and we have a lot of pigs down here we blister between the end of deer season and the beginning of turkey season then on-into the summer right up into deer season again.

It's not unusual for us to down 10-15, sometimes 20 pigs a day if we get on a roll.

I'm not allowed to hunt anymore unless it's for charity or culling until I make room in one of the freezers. SWMBO has said so.
This idea that everybody goes on multi-thousand-dollar boutique hunts and spends thousands on custom rifles - or bows - for just one hunt and that's why hunting cost more than going down to the local Winn Dixie is just not right. For people like me - and you, too, evidently - hunting pays. Even when I don't keep the meat it pays - whether it's a tax deduction or helping a cattle rancher/farmer neighbor keep vermin off their land - it's paying big dividends. It pays better because I handload for 25¢/round instead of buying box ammo for $2/round. And, before one of y'all multi-million-dollar Dillonistas starts chiming in about the cost of equipment, my little RCBS Partner, Lee Hand Press and Lee APP and my mix-n-match RCBS/Lee/Hornady sets of dies didn't run me any ten grand for just the press or a thousand bucks a pop per caliber or even much over a couple hundred, total, for all of those presses and 20-something calibers in die sets. You CAN spend a small fortune handloading but you sure as heck don't HAVE to. HUGE misconception that handloading costs everbody more than buying box ammo and even BIGGER misconception that hunting always costs more than shopping at the grocery store.

 

[AJC1]

I'm not allowed to hunt anymore unless it's for charity or culling until I make room in one of the freezers. SWMBO has said so.
This idea that everybody goes on multi-thousand-dollar boutique hunts and spends thousands on custom rifles - or bows - for just one hunt and that's why hunting cost more than going down to the local Winn Dixie is just not right. For people like me - and you, too, evidently - hunting pays. Even when I don't keep the meat it pays - whether it's a tax deduction or helping a cattle rancher/farmer neighbor keep vermin off their land - it's paying big dividends. It pays better because I handload for 25¢/round instead of buying box ammo for $2/round. And, before one of y'all multi-million-dollar Dillonistas starts chiming in about the cost of equipment, my little RCBS Partner, Lee Hand Press and Lee APP and my mix-n-match RCBS/Lee/Hornady sets of dies didn't run me any ten grand for just the press or a thousand bucks a pop per caliber or even much over a couple hundred, total, for all of those presses and 20-something calibers in die sets. You CAN spend a small fortune handloading but you sure as heck don't HAVE to. HUGE misconception that handloading costs everbody more than buying box ammo and even BIGGER misconception that hunting always costs more than shopping at the grocery store.

Hunting opportunity I believe is very local. The big city folks dont have farmer friends, and on their own property is out of the question. That's not to say trips to Alaska are the only other choice.

 

[EricBu]

I'm not allowed to hunt anymore unless it's for charity or culling until I make room in one of the freezers. SWMBO has said so.
This idea that everybody goes on multi-thousand-dollar boutique hunts and spends thousands on custom rifles - or bows - for just one hunt and that's why hunting cost more than going down to the local Winn Dixie is just not right. For people like me - and you, too, evidently - hunting pays. Even when I don't keep the meat it pays - whether it's a tax deduction or helping a cattle rancher/farmer neighbor keep vermin off their land - it's paying big dividends. It pays better because I handload for 25¢/round instead of buying box ammo for $2/round. And, before one of y'all multi-million-dollar Dillonistas starts chiming in about the cost of equipment, my little RCBS Partner, Lee Hand Press and Lee APP and my mix-n-match RCBS/Lee/Hornady sets of dies didn't run me any ten grand for just the press or a thousand bucks a pop per caliber or even much over a couple hundred, total, for all of those presses and 20-something calibers in die sets. You CAN spend a small fortune handloading but you sure as heck don't HAVE to. HUGE misconception that handloading costs everbody more than buying box ammo and even BIGGER misconception that hunting always costs more than shopping at the grocery store.

Edited to keep on topic: And my last rifle hunt I took an elk with a .50 beowulf, with barnes buster 400 grain bullets over RL7. Great hunting load, and disproves the misconception that "you can't hunt elk with an AR15". Hahahaha

Lol, "boutique hunting". Funny you call it that....it's just the way it is in AZ. We have literally people all over the world applying for our Elk hunts... I get drawn for the archery bull hunt maybe once every ten years. If you're wondering why it's so hard to get drawn for elk in AZ......take a look at the Pope and Young top 50... I don't chase horns, and am perfectly happy taking a raghorn as I am a 6x6......but at powerball level odds......just can't get the opportunity. We can take only one deer or one elk a year.....and that's only if we get drawn. We don't have a feral pig population, javelina taste like crap and are draw also.......if I want to hunt, it's going to be expensive. The only cheap and easy hunt here is coyote.......lol, but even the buzzards won't eat a coyote. I've visited other states with friends and family to hunt......and yeah, different ball game...here, anybody telling you in AZ that they are saving grocery money by hunting is either poaching, or a liar.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Hunting opportunity I believe is very local. The big city folks dont have farmer friends, and on their own property is out of the question. That's not to say trips to Alaska are the only other choice.

They put in a stop light at SR349 and US19. In my mind that makes me "big city folks" since I've got to stop at a traffic control device to get out of town. Still gotta drive to big city of Chiefland to shop at the Winn Dixie Frankly, the Hitchcocks and Hometown are fine by me. They got coffee and TP just like the big expensive chain stores.

 

[EricBu]

They put in a stop light at SR349 and US19. In my mind that makes me "big city folks" since I've got to stop at a traffic control device to get out of town. Still gotta drive to big city of Chiefland to shop at the Winn Dixie Frankly, the Hitchcocks and Hometown are fine by me. They got coffee and TP just like the big expensive chain stores.

I have to drive an hour to shop at Fry's, 2 for cosco. I live on 10 acres in BFE...I "could" shoot deer everyday on my property and save grocery money.....but I'd be poaching;-( We have no process for harvesting big game on our own property for nuisance control...still can only take one deer a year.