Reloading misconceptions.

[CQB45ACP]

What the heck is a "wiener boar"?

It is an animal that is especially contemptuous of cleaning rods.

 

[mdi]

If he was answering a question asking for an opinion it may have been a misconception. Making a blanket statement, no connection to thread topic, is typical for a narrow minded tool snob...

 

[BJung]

1. If you load outside of the recommended load data your gun will blow up.
2. W231 is THE best handgun powder.
3. Lead is poison (just wash your hands before eating and stay out of the cloud of smoke)
4. Lee Products are bad because it's inexpensive. I use mostly RCBS by the way but think Lee dies work for Factory and Surplus rifles just fine.

 

[EricBu]

What the heck is a "wiener boar"?

"Weiner" is the slang, actually "weaner". Means a young pig just off the teat, or in this case, a young european boar, of which there are a bazillion in GE, and all throughout all the training areas.

 

[jmorris]

In the Lyman manual stopping at max means you have reached xx pressure which may or may not be sammi max.

Means they reached XX pressure with the barrel/chamber reamer, components, conditions and methods used for their tests. I have seen data vary using the same powder for the same everything else.

For example we know that W296 and H110 are the same powder sold under different labels but Hornady came up with two different sets of data for them with everything else identical.

Kind of makes you think when the two are separated by 2.3 grains, that is a pretty significant amount of lot to lot variation. Make me curious about their method(s).



I suppose my misconception was that everything would be exact and repeatable but it’s not, even on the same page…

 

[AJC1]

Means they reached XX pressure with the barrel/chamber reamer, components, conditions and methods used for their tests. I have seen data vary using the same powder for the same everything else.

For example we know that W296 and H110 are the same powder sold under different labels but Hornady came up with two different sets of data for them with everything else identical.

Kind of makes you think when the two are separated by 2.3 grains, that is a pretty significant amount of lot to lot variation. Make me curious about their method(s).

View attachment 1058430

I suppose my misconception was that everything would be exact and repeatable but it’s not, even on the same page…

I have no proof but I believe that the data presented is an average. The lyman 45th describes the old testing process and in that manual was an average with no single test exceeding the established maximum.
I also believe that the powders for pistol used in power factor shooting are more linear and stable with less deviation and pressure spikes. Hs-6 and siholloette seem to be used a lot. I think 2400 responds similarly but is not in a useful range to that game.

 

[Jim Watson]

For example we know that W296 and H110 are the same powder sold under different labels but Hornady came up with two different sets of data for them with everything else identical.

Kind of makes you think when the two are separated by 2.3 grains, that is a pretty significant amount of lot to lot variation. Make me curious about their method(s).

Makes me wonder how long they have reprinted the same data from when Winchester sold Winchester powder and Hodgdon sold Hodgdon powder. Back then it all came out of the same plant but it didn't all come out of the same truckload, so the lot variation and canister specification really applied.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

It is a misconception to assume W296 and H110 are the same powder - unless the lot numbers match. Which they have in the past. Lot-to-lot variations in blended, double-base, ball powders is a little like the taste variations in blended whiskeys - it depends on who's doing the blending and who's doing the tasting. Back when I drank whiskey, I couldn't honestly tell the difference between blends in the same brand. I knew people who claimed they could. I knew other people who claimed there was no variation, blending whiskeys was an absolute science. I tended to ignore the latter and was amused by the former.
Yes, quite a few powders come out of the same factories and get different labels but it's a little disingenuous to say blended powders from different lots are the same while reminding people there are always lot-to-lot variations which require the handloader to drop back to a start charge and work up.
That's my other buggaboo reloading misconception.

 

[Zendude]

I have no proof but I believe that the data presented is an average. The lyman 45th describes the old testing process and in that manual was an average with no single test exceeding the established maximum.
I also believe that the powders for pistol used in power factor shooting are more linear and stable with less deviation and pressure spikes. Hs-6 and siholloette seem to be used a lot. I think 2400 responds similarly but is not in a useful range to that game.

That would explain why some max load data show the pressure being quite a bit below max.

 

[Jim Watson]

Looking at SAAMI standards, there is some statistical massaging that I do not understand but it comes up with a very high allowable extreme variation in pressure.
https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...FP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

 

[barnfrog]

Back then it all came out of the same plant but it didn't all come out of the same truckload, so the lot variation and canister specification really applied.

Totally tangential to the conversation, but your phrasing invoked in my brain an image of a big Euclid dump truck full of powder, which I found quite humorous for some reason.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Totally tangential to the conversation, but your phrasing invoked in my brain an image of a big Euclid dump truck full of powder, which I found quite humorous for some reason.

Go look up the Bruce Hodgdon story. Railroad cars of surplus powder he and his family bagged by hand... That had to be quite the sight.

 

[JFrank]

I find it strange that the purpose and reason behind a starting load is not in bold print in every single manual. I see people recommend reducing a starting load for x reason. Drives me nuts.

Good point.

 

[kalielkslayer]

Got a MEC 600 Jr for my 12th birthday. No internet, no loading forums.

I actually had to read the manual to learn.

I guess the only misconception I’ve had is “reloading pays for itself.”

With $1,000s of dollars just in components, no way would I ever spend that much on ammo. But I have no problem buying components in bulk.

But the accuracy I can get outta my rifles with a finely developed round is priceless. And having pistol or shotgun ammo available at all times is pretty priceless too.

So maybe it does pay for itself???

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Got a MEC 600 Jr for my 12th birthday. No internet, no loading forums.

I actually had to read the manual to learn.

I guess the only misconception I’ve had is “reloading pays for itself.”

With $1,000s of dollars just in components, no way would I ever spend that much on ammo. But I have no problem buying components in bulk.

But the accuracy I can get outta my rifles with a finely developed round is priceless. And having pistol or shotgun ammo available at all times is pretty priceless too.

So maybe it does pay for itself???

Every time I get the "reloading costs more, you just shoot more for less..." etc. blah-blah garbage, I just ask the speaker, "Have you priced a whole hog, lately? How about a whole 150lb deer? How much do you suppose my extra practice and sure-shooting on the trails have saved me in grocery-store costs for meat, annually, over the last four decades or so?" Handloading vs. Reloading is another topic.

 

[EricBu]

Every time I get the "reloading costs more, you just shoot more for less..." etc. blah-blah garbage, I just ask the speaker, "Have you priced a whole hog, lately? How about a whole 150lb deer? How much do you suppose my extra practice and sure-shooting on the trails have saved me in grocery-store costs for meat, annually, over the last four decades or so?" Handloading vs. Reloading is another topic.

You save money hunting? I figure the last Elk I harvested cost me about 300.00/lb.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

You save money hunting? I figure the last Elk I harvested cost me about 300.00/lb.

Holy Schnikeys!! Where are you hunting? Mars? I figure my last pig made me a $400 tax-deductible donation to the women's protection society food bank. I hunt local farm land, with the land owners, no license or permit required since wild pigs on farming land are considered vermin by the State, no season either, less than a two mile drive and half-hour walk... I think the biggest cost was I hired a professional artisan butcher to make the bacon and sausage and do the packaging since it was for donation. He charged me $150 for the whole pig and took a donation letter for himself.
We don't have many elk here in Florida. Lots of deer. They wander up looking for my wife's herb garden all the time. Lots of wild pigs, too. They're a constant nuisance. Public lands are just too dangerous - lots of yayhoos and Rambooeys - so I avoid them.

 

[mdi]

Money/costs of handloads vs factory is waaaaay down on my list of reasons to reload. Besides too much math gives me a headache (determining costs of components purchased over the last 20 years nearly impossible)...

 

[jmorris]

You save money hunting? I figure the last Elk I harvested cost me about 300.00/lb.

There used to be an old video of a guy adding up all the equipment he used hunting. Truck, utv, lease, camper, etc…showing his wife how much he loved her, feeding her such expensive meat.

 

[EricBu]

Holy Schnikeys!! Where are you hunting? Mars? I figure my last pig made me a $400 tax-deductible donation to the women's protection society food bank. I hunt local farm land, with the land owners, no license or permit required since wild pigs on farming land are considered vermin by the State, no season either, less than a two mile drive and half-hour walk... I think the biggest cost was I hired a professional artisan butcher to make the bacon and sausage and do the packaging since it was for donation. He charged me $150 for the whole pig and took a donation letter for himself.
We don't have many elk here in Florida. Lots of deer. They wander up looking for my wife's herb garden all the time. Lots of wild pigs, too. They're a constant nuisance. Public lands are just too dangerous - lots of yayhoos and Rambooeys - so I avoid them.

Yes, I live in AZ. Here's how hunting bull elk goes down. You apply every year.....after a decade you build up enough points to score a bull hunt. My last one was archery, so when I got drawn, had to get a new bow of course...that was about 2k all said and done. It's for a specific date in a specific hunt area...the area I put in for is south west of Flagstaff. A 5 hour drive. Archery is a 2 week hunt. So I use up 2 weeks of vaction. Two weeks of camping supplies, propane, etc. Diesel for the drive up...fuel for gennies, Side-by-side, etc. Probably costs me 5K all said and done for the trip, butcher bill is usually around 400.00, as I get a lot of summer sausage, brats, etc so that is always extra. Add in 2 weeks of vacation. That elk was a small guy, 5x5. Probably 800lbs on the hoof. I probably got 250lbs of meat once it was butchered (boned out).

Deer is even worse, I hunt near my house....we have the "elusive" coues deer. A nice 4x4 basket rack comes in at 150lbs max on the hoof in a good year.......all said and done, you end up with about a thousand dollar sandwich.

 

[CQB45ACP]

You save money hunting? I figure the last Elk I harvested cost me about 300.00/lb.

Dang…pre-pandemic, just for fun we bought a 14oz A5 Wagyu ribeye for $147.99. It was amazing (but then after spending that much what’d ya expect me to say—I wasted my money?)

 

[EricBu]

Dang…pre-pandemic, just for fun we bought a 14oz A5 Wagyu ribeye for $147.99. It was amazing (but then after spending that much what’d ya expect me to say—I wasted my money?)

At the current cost of beef.......if I get drawn for elk this year, it might actually save me some money!!!!!

 

[Mark_Mark]

You save money hunting? I figure the last Elk I harvested cost me about 300.00/lb.

You are what Outfitters hope and pray for. Montana hunt, contact EricBu

 

[Mark_Mark]

At the current cost of beef.......if I get drawn for elk this year, it might actually save me some money!!!!!

Have not bought beef Steak or chicken from Costco in over a year. They are having S&C issues. My local Fred Myers, the New York steaks are still $7.99/#

 

[Mark_Mark]

Dang…pre-pandemic, just for fun we bought a 14oz A5 Wagyu ribeye for $147.99. It was amazing (but then after spending that much what’d ya expect me to say—I wasted my money?)

Waste of Money! i can make you a steak that melts in your mouth like it was a Prime Dry Age. It’s all about the technique. Don’t rush or shock it