Rem 1100 3" mag for light loads
- Thread starter wilkersk
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Virginian
Member
The springs are the same. If you get a 2-3/4" barrel you should be good to go. If you get a target barrel, they have slightly bigger gas ports, so with the Magnum action sleeve I would keep a close watch on the buffer, and if it starts getting to metal to metal, replace the buffer and sleeve.
If you shoot real light loads, you may need to replace the sleeve for reliable functioning. I don't know for sure, as I have never shot any of those.
If you shoot real light loads, you may need to replace the sleeve for reliable functioning. I don't know for sure, as I have never shot any of those.
Badger Arms
Member
Beat me to it.
kirbythegunsmith
Member
Details
The differences in the inertial sleeve of Magnum vs. Standard has extra mass/inertia included with the magnum sleeve to ensure operation of the mechanism with the use of one (rather than two, as in 2-3/4" std. barrels) gas hole in the barrel cylinder.
Extra mass keeps the action bar assembly in motion when shot, since only one gas hole pushes the piston assembly and therefore needs a bit more inertia to reliably complete the cycle (even though using higher pressure gas).
Therefore, for light loads, (if failing to complete the bolt cycle i.e. underpowered) changing to a lighter inertia sleeve (std. 2-3/4") is going in the opposite direction. (Have you seen the very light sleeve used on the Supermag 11/87? Gas bleed system reduced the inertial need to some extent)
I do not believe that the heavier sleeve will have enough extra inertia to make it's use shooting heavy loads to create much more possibility of damage vs. what is considered as normal cyclic pounding.
You cannot have it both ways, where the heavier sleeve is posited as possibly causing damage, and yet not keep parts moving when functioning with lighter loads. Shooting of very heavy loads would be the biggest reason to re-install the MAGNUM barrel, correct?
Another point to consider is that the standard 2-3/4" gun was considered as able to work and withstand everything up to the heaviest 2-3/4" turkey loads (now 1-5/8 oz. Winchester @ 1250 fps, I believe), so the battering from just about any combination is less than most have been led to believe.
You should keep track of bolt buffer condition as well as note the condition of the slide lock buffer (plastic piece at rear of action bar) to monitor protective/sacrificial parts condition.
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This posting from 2-1/2 years ago covers similar details with extended explanations.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=245911&highlight=1100
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[email protected]
The differences in the inertial sleeve of Magnum vs. Standard has extra mass/inertia included with the magnum sleeve to ensure operation of the mechanism with the use of one (rather than two, as in 2-3/4" std. barrels) gas hole in the barrel cylinder.
Extra mass keeps the action bar assembly in motion when shot, since only one gas hole pushes the piston assembly and therefore needs a bit more inertia to reliably complete the cycle (even though using higher pressure gas).
Therefore, for light loads, (if failing to complete the bolt cycle i.e. underpowered) changing to a lighter inertia sleeve (std. 2-3/4") is going in the opposite direction. (Have you seen the very light sleeve used on the Supermag 11/87? Gas bleed system reduced the inertial need to some extent)
I do not believe that the heavier sleeve will have enough extra inertia to make it's use shooting heavy loads to create much more possibility of damage vs. what is considered as normal cyclic pounding.
You cannot have it both ways, where the heavier sleeve is posited as possibly causing damage, and yet not keep parts moving when functioning with lighter loads. Shooting of very heavy loads would be the biggest reason to re-install the MAGNUM barrel, correct?
Another point to consider is that the standard 2-3/4" gun was considered as able to work and withstand everything up to the heaviest 2-3/4" turkey loads (now 1-5/8 oz. Winchester @ 1250 fps, I believe), so the battering from just about any combination is less than most have been led to believe.
You should keep track of bolt buffer condition as well as note the condition of the slide lock buffer (plastic piece at rear of action bar) to monitor protective/sacrificial parts condition.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
This posting from 2-1/2 years ago covers similar details with extended explanations.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=245911&highlight=1100
---------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]
1KPerDay
Member
My 3" magnum 1100 runs fine with cheap target/field loads and a 2 3/4" barrel FWIW.
Virginian
Member
Okay. Wayne Leek explained it simpler though.
Gas pressure with magnum or standard 12 gauge shells has the same upper limit, but the pressure pulse with the magnums lasts longer.
With very light loads I would think the lighter sleeve could be gotten moving more quickly, which might be needed due to the lesser duration gas pressure pulse. But, as I said, I don't know, as I don't shoot anything less than one (1) ounce in 12 gauge.
Your advice to monitor the buffers is unbeatable. When I started using the 2-3/4" barrels on my LT20 Magnum, I did change the receiver buffer fairly soon thereafter, because it looked like it was getting pounded pretty good. But, that one has been there 25 years now, and looks about like it did after 3 months. Apparently the initial whacks change the buffer appearance, but thereafter the effect of additional whacks is minimal.
Badger Arms
Member
I modified it somewhat from the "Sam Colt" one where they say Sam Colt made us equal. I believe I have something different in another place, but the point is the same. Less religious undertones in mine. In my philosophy, if you believe I should be allowed to own guns, you're with me no matter what your race, religion (or lack thereof), or cultural background. We can all feel that way because of the SINGULAR efforts of one John Moses Browning.
kirbythegunsmith
Member
Details
The buffer performance does seem to level out once the parts have been pounded against each other, since the inside rear frame surface does show the mating marks after use.
The peak gas pressure may be the same as per SAAMI allowable specs, but I doubt if many or any typical lighter field or target loads even approach that pressure level. The peak pressure is only going to be reached for a very short time and the travel of the shot column allows the gas from the almost instantaneous ignition to have more expansion room and the "port" pressure is nowhere near peak pressure for any load. The magnum may hold the pressure longer and that should be due to the "dram equiv." i.e. powder charge being increased and use of slower burning powders to allow acceleration to be extended (while controlling pressure) because of the extra shot mass.
Let's not forget the "dwell time" that influences short vs. long barrel port size, since the shorter barrels have many examples of using larger ports to counteract the shortened TUP (time under pressure).
I am sure the factory tested the lighter sleeve in magnum situations and realized that the acceleration speed meant less than extended inertia to keep the parts in motion for the full length of the stroke.
By the way, the slide lock buffer inside the action bar assembly is staked in place in the earliest models, but retained with a cross-pin in later versions. The latest versions use the buffer spring to hold the bolt handle retaining ball (and the handle has the notch at the rear edge of the stub), but the earlier versions use the separate handle retainer assembly with the ball under the thin plate and have the bolt handle detent hollow only on the underside of the bolt handle stub.
So, if you have the earliest version, count on replacement of the action slide or a larger bill to fit the replacement buffer. The retainer plate and other parts are getting scarce for that old style action bar, so consider the limitations and examine the entire action bar before replacing the buffer or bolt handle retainer.
[email protected]
The buffer performance does seem to level out once the parts have been pounded against each other, since the inside rear frame surface does show the mating marks after use.
The peak gas pressure may be the same as per SAAMI allowable specs, but I doubt if many or any typical lighter field or target loads even approach that pressure level. The peak pressure is only going to be reached for a very short time and the travel of the shot column allows the gas from the almost instantaneous ignition to have more expansion room and the "port" pressure is nowhere near peak pressure for any load. The magnum may hold the pressure longer and that should be due to the "dram equiv." i.e. powder charge being increased and use of slower burning powders to allow acceleration to be extended (while controlling pressure) because of the extra shot mass.
Let's not forget the "dwell time" that influences short vs. long barrel port size, since the shorter barrels have many examples of using larger ports to counteract the shortened TUP (time under pressure).
I am sure the factory tested the lighter sleeve in magnum situations and realized that the acceleration speed meant less than extended inertia to keep the parts in motion for the full length of the stroke.
By the way, the slide lock buffer inside the action bar assembly is staked in place in the earliest models, but retained with a cross-pin in later versions. The latest versions use the buffer spring to hold the bolt handle retaining ball (and the handle has the notch at the rear edge of the stub), but the earlier versions use the separate handle retainer assembly with the ball under the thin plate and have the bolt handle detent hollow only on the underside of the bolt handle stub.
So, if you have the earliest version, count on replacement of the action slide or a larger bill to fit the replacement buffer. The retainer plate and other parts are getting scarce for that old style action bar, so consider the limitations and examine the entire action bar before replacing the buffer or bolt handle retainer.
[email protected]
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