Remington 1858

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Hey guys I am wanting to get a uberti copy of the Remington 1858 and buy a cylinder conversion kit for it. I have no interest in shooting the blackpowder loadings ( as in the ball and powder) but I'm wanting to know if the frame itself will handle smokeless loads or will I have to load black powder it's gonna be in .45 colt.
 
Should be posted in the BP forum, but the Remington frame is quite skimpy at the area of the frame around the load lever. It should not be loaded hot and in NO WAY is strong enough for Ruger loads. I'd shoot nothing, but CAS loads (very light) in it in .45 Colt and, indeed, this is what most of the conversion cylinders specify.

I have a 5.5" Pietta for which I have 3 cap and ball cylinders (more fun IMHO) and a .45ACP cylinder for when I'm lazy and don't want the clean up. :D This is a Howell conversion and it says pure lead only not to exceed 1000 fps. Now, they don't say what bullet weight for that 1000 fps which does make a difference. My handloads in .45ACP push a 200 grain cast (Lee TL mold) bullet to 900 fps. It's a standard pressure .45ACP load and seems plenty safe in the gun. FWIW, my handload is 5.0 grains Bulleye behind that 200 grain bullet.

Don't get carried away with a '58, it's no Colt 1873 let alone a Blackhawk far as frame strength goes. If you look it over around the loading ram and lever area, you'll see what I'm talking about.
 
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Don't worry I ain't gonna treat it as a ruger I would keep my hand loads at around 875 fps just want to know if I can use smokeless powder rather than buying black. Put it in this forum since I was wondering about the smokeless aspect.
 
Yes, it should be quite safe in that velocity range with a 225 grain or lighter bullet. I think those CAS loads are sub 800 fps, though, not sure the weight of the bullet.

I push a standard load of 255 grain flat point to about 950 fps with a charge of 8.3 grains of Unique in my Blackhawk. I would NOT fire that round in a Remington. It would be safe in an 1973 Colt/clone. So, you see, lighter the better in the Remmy.

These guns are great fun with cartridge conversions and a lot easier to clean up. My 200 grain .45ACP load shoots to the exact POA as my cap and ball rounds using RB and 30 grains of Pyrodex P with cornmeal filler. It's also just as accurate. And, the gun just LOOKS so good. :D It hangs from my bed post in a buscadero rig with the .45ACP conversion in it. I have no doubt it'd take care of business with the cap and ball, let alone .45ACP. It's right there in easy reach and will get me to my shotgun if need arises and it looks so cool hanging from that headboard with the big Texas star in the middle. :D I'm retired, no kids, and it's something of a home decor thing with me. LOL! I could hang my Ruger there, but the Remmy is so authentic and cheaper to replace if someone busted in here on the rare occasion I'm out of the house. That ain't likely, though, since I live WELL off the highway in the middle of nowhere down a rough 2 mile long dirt road at the very end. The few neighbors I have are armed and know all the trucks that belong down here.
 
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Howdy

I have said this a bazillion times, but I will say it again. Listing muzzle velocity alone does not define a load. Even listing muzzle velocity and bullet weight does not define a load, since different powders could achieve the same velocity with a given bullet and generate significantly different pressure. The only thing that defines if a load is safe is pressure.

Now, having said all that, all three manufacturers of conversion cylinders for the 1858 Remington that I am aware of state that their cylinders are safe for 'light' Smokeless loads, specifically 'Cowboy Loads'. Unfortunately, there is no SAAMI spec for Cowboy loads, it is what ever each ammo manufacturer chooses.

If you load your own ammo, some of the published manuals have a section for Cowboy Loads. These will be safe to fire in a conversion cylinder. Do not worry about the strength of the gun, the highest pressure occurs while the bullet is still in the chamber. Once the bullet enters the barrel, pressure starts to drop.
 
I would advise you to buy some replacement springs and keep on hand. If you shoot it very much you'll need them. :what:
 
As 45 Dragoon is saying you want to watch not just the peak pressure but also the rate of rise with smokeless. So if you want to stick with smokeless I'd suggest you load to a hair less than 875. Try to keep them down a bit closer to 800 out of respect for a good long life to the gun.

But really, if you only want to shoot cartridges why not look at the 1875 options? Or I see that they have a New Model Army Conversion version right from Uberti. That one will be rated for the full SAMMI load power so you can shoot it with 875fps loads without issue. And it comes with the ejector so you don't need to break down the gun to reload.

Seems like a superb option instead of buying a gun then buying a conversion kit from somewhere else.
 
Don't shoot smokeless in brass frame repros.

I'll second that. It MIGHT be OK with a .38Spl or .38Long Colt conversion shooting lighter loads but even then.....

I don't recall seeing that cartridge version earlier so I'm thinking that it's a newer product. But it seems tailor made for what you want to do. And likely a WAY cheaper than buying and fitting a conversion cylinder.
 
Also keep in mind that the rifling twist and groove diameter of C&B revolvers are not always optimal for .452" bullets. They are marked "Black powder only" for more then one reason. :uhoh:

Uberti's reproductions of original metallic cartridge conversions are more expensive, but they feature forged rather then investment cast frames, bore dimensions and twist for the chambered cartridge, and are smokeless powder proofed. If you consider the cost of a quality revolver (which Uberti's C&B revolvers are) plus the cost of an optional cartridge cylinder, the cartridge version becomes more attractive unless you intend to do most of your shooting using the percussion option.
 
Should be fine for any standard .45Colt load. Remember, .45ACP runs at several thousand PSI higher pressure and that doesn't seem to be an issue.

I expected twist rate to be an issue in my 3rd Dragoon and as such, planned on only using 200gr bullets or lighter. Found this to not be an issue and not only do 255's shoot with similar accuracy but also to the same point of aim.

However, you might be better off just buying the factory 1858 New Army conversion. Then you get not only a gun proofed for smokeless but a handy dandy ejector and loading gate. No gunsmithing installation required. In stock at Dixie Gun Works.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=15314
 
I have a Stainless Uberti 1858 that I am planning on getting the conversion cylinder for some day but it is just so much fun with real BP and a round ball that I have been spending my money elsewhere.

The advantage to using a cartridge conversion is in using smokeless powder, which for me would allow me to shoot my New Army at the indoor range.
 
Stormin,
Bingo!!
That is precisely the reason I converted my Dragoons and '60 , so I can shoot smokeless at my indoor range without having to drive to a neighboring county to shoot BP outside!!!

All of my 45's (includes the above and an El Patron Comp and Remie (Pietta) ) shoot the same reloads I make at just about the 1000 fps range. Not a problem with any of them.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
 
Pretty sure I've posted these here before but they are germane to this thread, so here we go...

Pietta_1858_Kirst_R.jpg

Kirst_1858_Conversion_L.jpg

Kirst_Gate_Closeup.jpg

It's a Pietta 1858 that I bought a few years ago from Cabela's with the specific goal of doing a cartridge conversion. I used a gated Kirst Konverter and added their ejector rod as well.

Incidentally, I did the conversion using a Dremel and hand tools. This was before I owned my mini mill.

The only ammo I've shot in it so far has been Black Hills .45 Colt cowboy loads, which push a 250 grain hard cast lead bullet at about 750 FPS. I've put a couple hundred rounds through the gun with no noticeable wear.

By modern standards this .45 Colt load is rather light. However, it packs more muzzle energy than the .455 Webley Mk.VI, which was always considered a good manstopper. Also, from about 10 yards it will shoot through a seasoned pine log about 12" in diameter.

One thing I'd avoid in a conversion would be jacketed bullets. The steel in the repro percussion revolvers is soft, so I'd be concerned about causing excessive wear on the bore with jacketed loads, even modest ones. Stick with lead bullets.
 
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