Remington 308 PSS Tac.

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Stinkyshoe

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I noticed there are two different barrel lengths. The 20" and the 26". How is the long range capability of the 308 going to be affected by the 6 inch difference? What is the general quality and expected accuracy from this rifle?
Could the PSS with a 20" be an 800 yard rifle?
Thanks
Ss
 
Get the 20" and it is a 800yard gun ! You only gain about 100fps in going 20" to 26" in a .308win. If it was 30-06 or .300 mag I'd say 26" and a 1000 yard gun! :)
 
Thanks for the comments. So you are saying there is no difference in the stability of the bullet between a 20 and a 26inch? How would one work up the right load for 800 yards(is that a matter having enough velocity to make it, or having a very accurate load?)

Is the Remington PSS Tac going to be good right out of the box, or do you think it will require gunsmithing?

Any recommendations on a scope that would complement the rifle well? What about mounts?

Thanks much
Ss
 
If the standard loss is 50fps for each inch of barrel removed...

How does this work:

You only gain about 100fps in going 20" to 26" in a .308win.
Click to expand...
:scrutiny:
 
Who said the standard loss is 50 fps per inch in a .308 going from 20-26" ? Below 20" I think it is, but going ABOVE 20" the powder is pretty much played, as it was designed to be. I think 30 fps per inch , decreasing as you get longer is about right. Notice I said a different game for 30-06 and mags!
Start with the 168 grain match bullets which are the best up to 600 yards (or more) , a specialty long range .308 win load usually involves 190 grain ,atch bullets!
 
Gordon said:
Get the 20" and it is a 800yard gun ! You only gain about 100fps in going 20" to 26" in a .308win. If it was 30-06 or .300 mag I'd say 26" and a 1000 yard gun!
Click to expand...

The difference in muzzle velocity between varying lengths of barrels is hard to judge. Frankly, I feel it's the quality of the barrel that plays more of a role than the actual length of the barrel. Look at the GAP "Rock" rifle. It was built on a Rock 5R barrel with a 22" length (http://www.snipercountry.com/InReviews/TheRock.asp). It shoots factory 175s at 2650fps, which is a little better than the published ballistics by Federal and Black Hills for their 175 factory ammunition out of a 24" test barrel.

That said, a .308 with a 20" barrel should be fine up to the range where the bullet loses supersonic speed. Assuming a 2550fps muzzle velocity from the 20" barrel, it will probably stay stable until 900 depending on the ballistic coefficient of the bullet. I'm sure if you used 175gr Sierra MatchKings, the LTR could go to 1000. It's possible to load the 175s pretty hot before you get pressure signs such that you could break 2600fps out of the factory LTR 20" barrel.
 
I have one with the 26 inch barrel, right out of the box with 168gr. sierra b.t.h.p. and 46.5 gr.of varget it will shoot one ragged hole at 100yd.and a 1inch group at 200yd. That was the first load i tried , I havent even tried
another load in it cant say about the 20inch barrels.
 
Gaven
Wow thats some very good shooting. What kind of optic did you use?

Does anyone know if side by side there would be a darn bit of difference between the 20 and 26. I mean, why go to the trouble to make a 26" if it offers no advantage over the 20". There must be a difference in there some where.

I guy I know who is a gold metal state games benchrest shooter said that he had his 26 inch target 308 cut to 20. He said it increased accuracy because of better harmonics. I suppose out to 300 yards, the 20 and 26 will be virtually the same. But what about and 800 yards? Am i just having a spell of wishful thinking, hoping that a (1) 20" barrel (2) 308 Win. is going to work be on target and that distance(assuming no shooter error). Out of the box, how is a Rem. 700 Police TM going to perform? What is the difference between the TM and PSS?

Who has the best price on the 20" Rem. 700. Sniper TM or Pss?

How does one find the drop for a handload and use the clicks on target turrets to compensate for wind and drop?

Thanks Again,
Ss
 
i think you guys are off base a bit. what would make the difference in a 600 or 800 or 1000yrd gun is the TWIST RATE of the barrel, not the length. if you're going to stabilize the 190 grain sierra bullets, you need a faster twist than you do with the 168 or 175 grain bullets.
 
I own a remington model 700 ltr.in 308.I purchased it about a year ago and put about 300 rounds through it last summer.It's an absolute joy to shoot.I have a leupold 6-18 scope on it.I shoot off of bipods at the shilloette range out to 500 meters.It handles the 168 gr. the best.At 100 yrds it will hold half inch groups consistently.I'm impressed with how this gun shoots!!Off sandbags we were shooting clay pidgeons at 500 meters which showed to me how accurate this gun really is.Maybe I just got luckey with this particular gun,But I wouldn't hessitate on buying another
 
That's a half-truth.

what would make the difference in a 600 or 800 or 1000yrd gun is the TWIST RATE of the barrel, not the length.
Click to expand...

A fast twist rate for heavy bullets doesn't mean anything if you can't keep that heavy bullet supersonic through the intended range of the target. Per the old Greenhill formula, fast twist heavy bullets have a minimum muzzle velocity just to stay stable out the starting gate. Anything less, and they'll tumble - I've done it with long 6.5mm and .30 caliber bullets during load development.

That says something for not removing powder burn time via a short barrel, because a .308 Winchester is a marginally effective 1000 yard cartridge to begin with. Long-range .308 Winchester shooters usually rely on 175gr and heavier match bullets, with hotter loads, to stay stable out that far. Those same hot loads would love to make use of the extra 4-6" of barrel burn time for that 2600fps floor.

(You should see how hot they drive those 155gr Palma bullets for 1000 yard competition!)
 
I have one with the 26 inch barrel, right out of the box with 168gr. sierra b.t.h.p. and 46.5 gr.of varget it will shoot one ragged hole at 100yd.and a 1inch group at 200yd. That was the first load i tried , I havent even tried
Click to expand...

You need to be careful when telling people what load you use if you are using data that exceeds recommended maximum loads by the manufacturer. Hodgdon max load for Varget behind a 168gr Sierra Match King is 46.0gr.
 
How do you select the mounts with the proper height? Does it matter?

How do you get the rifle sighted in so you have enough MOA adjustment to go in close and out to a ways away?
 
I'm no expert but, the heighth of the mounts depends
on the size of scope.If you have a 50mm objective,
you will need a "taller" mount.Otherwise the scope
will contact the barrel.
You can get the base that is made for those distant shots.
I don't know all the proper terminology,I'm still
learning too. :)

QuickDraw
 
QUOTE "How does one find the drop for a handload and use the clicks on target turrets to compensate for wind and drop?"

To find bullet drop for any load you need to shoot your load thru a cronograph to get bullet speed (FPS). Then look in a loading manual for the ballistic data for your bullet and FPS. It will show you bullet drop for your load at different zeros or different ranges.

To use your target knobs just turn them in the direction you want your bullet to move. Your target knobs should be marked for up-down & left- right. Most scopes - scope adjustments are 1/4 minute (1/4 inch) at 100 yards for one click. At longer ranges you multiply 1/4 for every 100 yards you are shooting. For example at 300 yards you mutiply 1/4 X 3 = 3/4inch (.75). At 300 yards each click on your target knobs moves your bullet 3/4 of an inch on target. To compensate for wind you need to know how far the wind is blowing your bullet. Then make the adjustment on your scope the proper number of clicks for that distance. Reading the wind is alot harder than elevation because the wind changes speed and direction gravity doesn't. Hope this helps.
 
I'd want the longest barrel I could stand, especially if it's gonna be something for punching paper at distance. I never really saw the sense in a 20" barrelled .308 personally.
 
I never really saw the sense in a 20" barrelled .308 personally.
Click to expand...


They(700P-LTR) work great for the LEO sniper, who's shots generally don't exceed 200 yards, though it is capable of much, much more. Another plus is the smaller signature, which is great for a LEO sniper who is generally much closer to his target than his military counterpart.

It's also a much more comfortable rifle to haul around, and the stock is much preferred by many over the more cumbersome 700P stock which also has a much larger wrist(grip) area.

Don't underestimate the 700P-LTR, it will get right out there with the regular 700P for most shooting, as long as it has the proper loads.
http://home.comcast.net/~davidawilson/LongRange/LR_Frame.htm


Edited to add; Here's a place that generally has the best price on these rifles.
http://www.sportingarms.com/

http://www.sportingarms.com/results...max_price=&keyword_descr=&B1=Submit&page_no=1


Look for 700P, or 700P-LTR. Remington hasn't called them the PSS for years.
 
An LEO sniper is a relatively niche market though. For the average joe blow shooting off a bench or bags toting this thing from his car to the firing line, I say go with the longer tube.
 
How about some actual chrony info, instead of guesses, regarding the difference in velocities of the 20" and 26" barrels?
 
i know the 8 mauser is a different animal, but i think the concept still applies. i took a mauser 98/22 w/ a 29" barrel and chronied it. then i took 5" off the barrel (same barrel, same ammo lot #'s) and chronied it again. i lost 17 f/s. then i took 5 more inches off (down to 19") and chronied it again (same barrel, same lot #'s), and lost an additional 80-some f/s.

the point of all that is that the 50 f/s per inch that gets bandied about so much isn't necessarily a hard and fast rule. the 308 case is very efficient (note how little it gains by being ackleyed), and while i don't wish to cut up my 26" heavy barrelled 308, i would imagine that very little would be lost going from 26" down to 20. however... it is my 1000 yard gun, and the 308 can use every little bit of assistance it can get to reach 1000 yards. thus, i went 26", and for a target/range gun, i'd reccomend that barrel length. while the 20" will be stiffer, and theoretically more accurate, that mauser i cut up didn't bear that out. from 29" to 24, i cut group sizes in half. from 24 to 19, i gained very little...

and so it is: each rifle is a law unto itself.
 
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