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Remington 700 extractor - how big of a weak link?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Benelli Shooter, Dec 25, 2009.

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  1. Benelli Shooter

    Benelli Shooter Member

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    I just had an extractor fail on my 30-06 Remington 700 ADL. I had not given much thought before the failure. But, now, I am somewhat amazed at what a fragile design is in this gun. The extractor is a thin piece of metal. I have ordered a replacement and a spare. Has anyone else had one fail personally?

    It has made me question the durability of my gun. I am seriously considering selling the thing to buy a new CRF Winchester model 70.

    Reliability is one of my primary concerns in a firearm. Is this an over reaction?
     
  2. adobewalls

    adobewalls Member

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    I have never experienced an extractor failure on a Remington and I have owned several. But then again, I am not shooting 1,000's of rounds per year either. With that said, it is a known issue and there are fixes for it:

    http://www.davidtubb.com/extractors.html
     
  3. GJgo

    GJgo Member

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    Haven't heard of that one, but I have heard of the 700 brazed-on bolt handles falling off. Heresay, but still..
     
  4. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

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    Normal, if used a lot! Not a big deal....the sako extractor is a great idea and is highly recommended!
    For around $60 or so, you should be able to get one installed.

    The rifle is plenty durable, it is a machine, and a simple part has failed...that's all.

    The Model 70's bolt is a tiny bit more fragile than the Remington, and if you had experienced a failure with it, you may felt it was inferior also. BTW, neither the Winchester or the Remington is 'fragile'....
     
  5. Geno

    Geno Member

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    I have had this failure two times. It doesn't merit selling the rifle. At worst, enhance the bolt as Uncle Mike indicated. There are various after-market availabilities. Now, if you simply "want" a Winchester, more power to you. But, understand that a CRF rifle can fail to eject round that stick in a chamber. I have witnessed a Model 70, a Mark X and Mauser CRF rifles fail to extract fired rounds from the chamber. Firearms are tools. Tools wear and break. Fix-it; fire-it; forget-it.

    Geno
     
  6. Subternal

    Subternal Member

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    here's my issue...

    In response to the original post about having issue's with the remington 700 extractor, here's my issue:

    This is a remington 700 XCR long range tactical in .308, brand new. I've had it exactly 2days and put about 23rnds through it. I was using Ultramax ammo bought at Dicks sporting goods. this exractor literally sheered off and I was unable to extract the casing. It easily came out with a tap from the cleaning rod. But I just wanted to give an example these extractors failing. I'm not against remington, and since it is Xmas I have not been able to talk to them about a warranty remedy. It was a real blower when it happened ....just was curious to see if it happened to anyone else...

    ..I guess a better question would be: is it worth going to remington for a warranty claim or to just pay the $13 for a new extractor?
     

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    Last edited: Dec 26, 2009
  7. Boris Barowski

    Boris Barowski Member

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    go for the warranty claim. First of all it sends a message to their QC dept. that something is wrong, and if customer service does its job right, you'll get the free part and maybe some free stuff or a coupon or something :)


    BTW, the SAKO style extractor does remove the safety the fully enclosed bolt face ("3 rings of steel") gives you if you have a catastrophic malfunction with overpressure. Or do I have the wrong idea about that kind of extractor? :)
     
  8. Geno

    Geno Member

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    I have seen several of this mishap over the years. It is not a weekly, or even annual event. Where is the remainder of the extractor?

    A certified Remington servicing dealer can repair it under warranty, with Remington's permission. The dealer will bill Remington. That is what I just did (4ish weeks ago).

    Geno
     
  9. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

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    No worries!

    Fragile design...!?!? That design has been working in a excellent fashion for many, many, many, years!

    It amazes me....someones extractor pops and it is the very worst design made, pure unadulterated junk, I tell ya...!

    Could Remington have gone cheap and gotten some junk extractors, or maybe they didn't buy junk, maybe they just received a bad lot of extractors. How would Remington know...?

    Send it back to Remington...call them up...demand a pre-paid return label. (your just going to send the bolt back, not the entire rifle)
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2009
  10. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    Uncle Mike: Somewhere in my decade of web searching, I read a thread about the limitations of the SAKO extractor conversion.

    As per my memory, there was a reputable gunsmith who installed SAKO extractors on M700's. This might have been Kenny Jarrett . One day at the range, he had a pressure problem. His converted rifle blew his SAKO extractor out injuring him. The post I read said it blinded him in one eye. This is something I have been unable to confirm.

    This guy then recalled all the rifles he had converted and restored them to Remington configuration.

    The M700 protects the shooter very well from case head ruptures.

    It is of course, at a cost. All actions are a compromise. All action designers make design trades. I think the best overall compromise is the Mauser 98. It is, in my book, simply the best action every designed. Remington decided to weight shooter protection a more than feed and extraction reliability. So you have this tiny extractor in the thing. It works, but it is not as durable as a claw. If you cut the bolt head ring, then you have created a gas channel out of the breech. So it is like a safety belt, hopefully you will never need the breeching protection offered by a Rem 700, but then if you do have a problem, you will be glad you had it.

    It is a matter of how much risk you are willing to live with.

    I have a SAKO, (which has a poor breech design) so I guess I am living dangerously. :D

    http://www.jarheadtop.com/FAQ_40X_or_Rem_700_Action.htm


    Remington extractors are not the only extractors that break. It was well known, and I have replaced push feed M70 extractors, on the bloody firing line at Highpower matches.

    I think the Mauser claw, or the pre 64 claw to the be most reliable extractor ever built as long as you feed from the magazine box. You snap one of those over enough cartridge rims, and the claw will also break in time.
     
  11. Almond27

    Almond27 Member

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    Hmm I wouldn't call it a fragile design, The military wouldn't have chose the Remington M700's as their DMR rifle if it had a fragile design. I'd definitely call Remington and let them fix it first. Hell M1a's lose extractors every now and then but people don't call them fragile just saying not trying to flame you honestly.
     
  12. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

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    Yeah, they ALL will give up sometime or another!

    The Mouse claw(hehehe) will break, as you say, if you force it over enough rims.

    Any design will fail, given enough pressure to contend with...

    I bet Remington received a bad batch of extractors, too brittle.

    What I was saying, and it is amusing, we will have a customer tell the world how the sun rises and sets in his rifle, I mean this gun cannot disappoint, then something breaks, and most of the time it is due to the owner doing something wrong,and his holy grail of rifles just became a turd of the first order.

    Nothing directed towards anybody here!

    If your extractor is the clip-in type, have Remington send you one and put it in yourself, if it is riveted in, send it back to Remington, but do insist on a pre-paid return lable!
     
  13. Benelli Shooter

    Benelli Shooter Member

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    Uncle Mike, you may not agree that the design is fragile. But, it is a reasonable question. Most people who hunt dangerous game will not use a gun with a Remington style extractor

    Just because the military uses something, does not mean it is the best solution. If it was, the 92FS would be the premier fighting handgun.

    I am an engineer. This part is not exactly "over engineered". It is more than fair to say it is the weak link in the operation.
     
  14. Redneck with a 40

    Redneck with a 40 Member

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    I bought a used Rem 700 SPS Tac last year, I've since put 500 rounds of my handload's downrange, I've had no problems. As a matter of fact, the extraction is very positive, tosses the cases several feet.:)
     
  15. RE-15

    RE-15 Member

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    My 700p has seen 2000 shots, no ext problem
     
  16. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    I own about a dozen Remington model 700, 721 and 722 rifles. Some of those guns have fired over 10,000 rounds. I have never had a Remington extractor fail.
     
  17. dirtyjim

    dirtyjim Member

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    one of the things often overlooked on the sako extractor conversions is the bolt guide that keeps the extractor from blowing out the side of the rifle if you blow a case head on sako rifles. to use this on a remmy you must also machine a groove around the bolt for the collar to hold it in place. 99% of the people doing sako conversions just mill the slot of the ejector, drill the hole for the spring & call it done.
     
  18. CZguy

    CZguy Member

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    While my round count isn't near that high, I've never had a problem with the 700 I bought in 1970.
     
  19. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

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    I do agree the Remington extractor can be more fragile than some of the other designs.
     
  20. Redneck with a 40

    Redneck with a 40 Member

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    Seems to me, the Marine snipers would not use a rifle with a "fragile" extractor, not in the life or death situations they face. They've stuck with Remington, its served them very well for 50 years.
     
  21. Almond27

    Almond27 Member

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    Redneck, that is exactly what I was thinking.
     
  22. USSR

    USSR Member

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    A couple years ago, I was spotting for a guy at a 1,000 yard F Class match. His M700 extractor let go, and he used my cleaning rod as an "extractor" for the rest of the match.

    Don
     
  23. Bart B.

    Bart B. Member

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    In high power competition, Remington extractors have been norotious for breaking. At the other end of the spectrum, Winchester pre '64 classic ones are the most reliable. I've had one break and they can be replaced pretty fast without tools.

    Regarding the choice of Remington 700's over Winchester 70's for the US military sniper rifle base in the late 1960's, all the military rifle team members who were also top snipers at one time or currently employed as such (Hathcock, Krilling, Wright) preferred the Winchester. Besides all the team members as well as top competitive shooters knew the reliability difference between the two actions. Their needs were best served by the Winchester because its.....

    Extractor was more reliable, yes the post '64 push feed one is almost as reliable as the classic one.

    Receiver is near three times stiffer.

    Firing pin can be replaced with only a pair of pliers, not special tools.

    Safety directly locks the firing pin, not the trigger, and survives drops without firing.

    Had faster and more reliable bolt operation due to the longer and better shaped bolt handle.

    More reliable feeding from the magazine in rapid fire.

    The rectangular receiver design prevented it from twisting a bit loose from epoxy bedding in a few hundred rounds when bullets heavier than 160 grains were used.

    = = = = = = = = = = =

    But Winchester was in financial straits; the top military brass felt it would not be a good idea to continue with a company thay may fold at any time. They wanted a company that was better off in their finances. So they picked the Remington. GySgt Hathcock kept his Winchester. He told me at the 1971 Interservice Rifle Matches the government's made other mistakes regarding small arms before this one. And even though his old Model 70's accuracy had dropped off somewhat, he still knew it was the best comprise to make for what was needed to do his special job from long range.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
  24. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Now maybe I'm wrong, but I thought their Remingtons have about as much in common with an off-the-shelf 700 as those "10/22" rifles people use in competition have in common with an off-the-shelf Ruger.

    Furthermore, they're not fighting rifles, in that snipers don't expect to use them like US troops once used the '03A3, which has a real extractor.

    Every piece of machinery has some "weak link."
     
  25. farscott

    farscott Member

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    I just do not shoot enough .308 out of my 700 to worry about the extractor. If mine fails, I will get it fixed; I only use it for occasional deer hunting and informal target shooting. The 700 is not something upon which I rely for anything but sport.

    That said, I think I bought my last 700. The issue with the 700 firing upon closing the bolt bothers me as does Remington's grudging response to the issue.

    I seem to have converted over to the Ruger 77 Mark II after getting my daughter a Frontier in .308.
     
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