Remington 700 SPS TACTICAL AAC-SD .308 Winchester plus SMK and TSX bullets Tests

[1stmarine]

I am posting this for those considering a nice .308win bolt rifle.

Today it was a nice spring day and I headed for the range with some handloads I prepared last night. Also I have been working in the stock and bedding of the Remington 700 SPS TAC rifle and wanted to test if the added rigidity made a difference in the overall system performance. I am not done with it yet as I want to epoxy the entire body of the factory Hogue stock. I could have gone with another B&C stock that I have in a box somewhere in the basement but I really like the rubbery texture and positive grip of the factory stock.

I wanted to test other bullets but for the first good day out of the season the SMK and TSX testing seemed like a good idea. I am very familiar with these bullets and I wanted to see if finally the barrel start to like the tune of the new loads.

These were the bullets tested:
A) FMJ 175gr with same profile and ballistics as the SMK 175 used in the M118LR round.
B) BARNES TSX (Triple Shock) 168gr.

The barometers were perfect. Sunny day spring day. 60 degrees. 2mph wind. heading 90.

I set up a combo of 4 targets at 200yards and istalled the chrono RCBS Ammo master to record the spreads.



That is our target at the end of this lane...



These are some pics of the rifle ready to go....




I start with the 175grainers and record the spreads. This is the first string including the first shot from the cold bore. Adjusted the clicks and then started hitting the target. The circles have below MOA diameter at 200yards.

This is the first group close to 1/2MOA....




These are 2 groups with the TSX 168gr and 42.75gr of H4895 also around 1/2MOA...





Another angle of the rifle...



This is the best group of the 1st string that gave 1/4MOA at 200 yards...



This is the detail of the spreads. As you can see I was working with very mild loads, accurate though...
Do not use this information without verifying the load information with both the powder and/or bullet manufacturers.
what works for me might not work for your based on your specific setup, experience and other factors.
It is ok to read the load information below for reference but always verify with other sources or ask an experienced person to help you.



Now one question. Does anyone has experience filling up the hogue with epoxy and what type and what are the experiences, if any?

Cheers,
E.

 

[unwise11]

I've heard you cannot bed the Hogue stock, I have 2 rifles that have one, a Howa M-1500 .308, and an SPS Tactical in .223, on my short list is the SPS Tactical AAC, and it's competing with a Savage 10 FP-SR.. Arguing with myself :banghead:

 

[1stmarine]

JDMorris,
I like the texture although the stock could be improved so this is what I am doing. The bedding is done. I am looking to fill out the gaps in the rest of the stock to add rigidity. I also put a rifle length AR-15 picatiny rail (very rigid) that helped a lot but still there is some room. I wouldn't bother if I didn't like the positive grip of the rubbery texture of the hogue.
The rest of the system is perfect as is so I will not touch it.
I was wondering if anyone had filled one to check on their experiences.
Cheers,
E.

 

[TonyAngel]

I wouldn't bother going through all of that trouble with the stock. It's plastics covered by rubber. You could fill the whole fore end section with epoxy and embed metal in it, but it isn't going to make the stock any stiffer as a whole. If you're just worried about the infamous barrel touching when shooting from a bipod, have at it, but I think the stock works very well as it is.

Quite frankly, I have one B&C stock and an HS Precision stock and neither made any great improvement in the accuracy of my rifle.

 

[snake284]

You fill that Hogue up with epoxy and it's gonna gain a lot of weight. Use foam insulation. It will make the stock rigid and won't add a lot of weight. You know the stuff in the can that you can use around your windows and such places to make your house more tight. I did it to both my Remingtons and it did wonders for them without making them heavy.

 

[1stmarine]

snake284,
Very interesting. I thought of the weight and will add around 20 ounzes to the stock but the foam virtually nothing. Do you have any pictures or description of the procedure?
I imagine would have to tape all the edges and then cut/carve the excess?
Many thanks for your input.
Cheers,
E.

 

[Rob96]

[QUOTEQuite frankly, I have one B&C stock and an HS Precision stock and neither made any great improvement in the accuracy of my rifle. ][/QUOTE]

I have an ADL Varmint that I continue to think about getting a HS Precision stock for. But then I am already getting .59moa with the facotry plastic stock. How much could I really gain.

 

[TCU]

i have the same rifle with a bushnell 3200 elite. I hit great groups consistantly. I floated the barrel because of the bipod and the stock is pillar bedded, that thing is great though. Put up quarters on the target and try to make headshots, its possible with this rifle haha.

 

[bpl]

What muzzle break is that? Also, in general have you noted a major preference in bullet weight 165/168gr or 175/177/180gr with that 1/10 twist vs the 1/12 on the regular SPS Tactical.

 

[1stmarine]

I like these TAC systems for 2 reasons:
A) they come with 1:10 rate so can stabilize the heaviest bullets or the solid ones (TSX, TTSX, E-TIP, etc...) that are normally larger than the lead counterparts. Coppers have to be larger in order to meet the grain.
B) Everything being equal 20" is more accurate and come already threaded for a brake or a can if allowed by law.
These are 0.5 MOA out of the box with a 0.25 MOA potential with little work and the right handloads.

Remington, Savage... it doesn't matter both are tac drivers and shoot as systems 4 or 5 times that cost. This has been proven over an over again.
A good glass is paramount. I am using here a Nikon monarch 5-20x44 BDC that I use for hunting and the eye relieve, fast acquisition and light transmission rivals the best Leupold. Some do not like this reticule as it is very peculiar but it works great. I have shot deer at 600 yards with this and other rifles and with the TSX dropped like they were hit by lightning every single time.

Cheers,
E.

 

[1stmarine]

bpl,
That is a cheap brake I got from a box I have a box full of them in the basement, probably more than 50 but I am having a new one made custom by Peak Tactical. http://peaktactical.com/customer_guns.html
There are very specific dimensions and characteristics that I demand from the break system.
I think any system does better with a custom Peak break, no matter what so that's what I do for all my systems.
The 10 twist would be overkill and not recommended for the average 150, 168 and even some larger but the best bullets out there require a 1:10 rate.
The solid coppers are much larger and require the extra twist to stabilize properly.
Sometimes the situation might call for a 200gr solid bullet at shorter range where penetration is paramount. Those will rip through anything w/o disintegrating, wood, walls, bricks, heavy glass, etc...
It depends on the purpose and the target material. Standard body armor wants a hot rod very light moving very fast instead.
Just do some research and then test what you need as the extra twist might destroy the jackets on light varmint bullets, specially those cheaply made at discount.

This rifle also loves Military 145 and 150 FMJs but of course for shooting this all the time 1:10 is not the best option.

Cheers,
E.

 

[Huckelberry75]

The Remington AAC Edition is set up with a 1/10" twist to stabilize bullets when you are shooting subsonic with a supressor. The bullets need the faster twist at lower velocities to stabilize properly and prevent baffle strikes. Just like the prefered twist dfor a subsoniv .223 round is 1/7". You can shoot subsonic with other twists, but 1/7" will give the best stability in .223.

My Remington AAC loves the Nosler 165 B.Tip's. A full house .308 round with the suppressor is maybe as loud as a .22 WMR!! With subsonic rounds, you don't need ear plugs!!

 

[788Ham]

1stmarine,

What an interesting thread. Looks like you've got a serious shooter on your hands. The last pic, 9/16" group, maybe some powder fiddling will bring that down to a "one-holer" in short order, stack 5 or 6 into one hole, leaves a lot of unused target though. LOL Keep us posted on how things continue, whether you foam the rest or not. Your signature have any bearing on your shooting abilities? If so, thanks for your service and welcome home Marine.

 

[~Abstract~]

I'm pretty sure my .308 700 SPS Tactical didn't come threaded...?

 

[1stmarine]

These do come threaded. This is the one...

http://remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical-aac-sd.aspx

Cheers,
E.

 

[txhoghunter]

The SPS Tactical does NOT come threaded, The SPS Tactical AAC DOES

 

[1stmarine]

Not only that, the rate of twist on the first SPS TAC was 1:12. So this and the threaded muzzle are the actual differences along with the stock color. Everything else is the same.
Cheers.
E.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

On your load data...

At 41 grains with the SMK...you were up there around 2,600 fps
At 41.5....you were around 2,550 fps.

And at 42.25...you were back to 2,600 fps.

You have a "variable" somewhere...and how do you measure .25 grains?

 

[1stmarine]

I saw that and I was scratching my head. I didn't think I messed up my loads or anything but I do put a very light crimp on them, even w/o cannelure.
So if I weight the cases and spend a little more time I can have more spreads with differences in the single digits. I didn't do a good job with the SMKs this time and better with the TSX.

In the last string the SMK went with a slight increase in OAL but I have to review the data and get back to you.
In any case I am withing all acceptable parameters and didn't see any signs of pressure.
For the precise measure I use a JS-VG-20 scale that is dead on unlike the cheap $20 scales. http://jscale.com/product/_vg_series.html
These are used by jewelers to weight gold and diamonds so that tells you the level of trust in them.

And some wonder why barnes TSX are expensive. Besides being so lethal this is also why....

This is the .308 Barnes TSX advertised at 168gr. This scale measures with a tolerance of of 0.05 grains....



Cheers,
E.

 

[dprice3844444]

nice 200 yard groups

 

[1stmarine]

Another angle of the SPS...

 

[unwise11]

How did you go about installing that rail and what brand of rail is it?

 

[1stmarine]

JDMorris,
It is an AR15 Rifle length bottom rail. It is very solid and this is what you do.
The rail comes pre-drilled for adjustment so you take out the sling mount bolt.
Then put a new bolt (M4 I believe) with a washer and you are done with that part. Don't tight all the way. The align the rail perfectly center and make a mark in the first hole back in the stock. Take the rail out and drill with 1/8 bit a 1/4 to 3/8 deep whole in the stock. It is tiny. Then find a flat head screw like those for cabinets. Put back the rail and this screw should go in with ease but very strong as it is right in one of the ribs in the polymer piece. Put back the front bolt with some locktite blue and you are done. It is not 100% parallel to the barrel but very close.
I will make some pictures and let you know if you need more help.
There are several makers. This might have been NCstar or something like that but I am not sure. Don't need to spend a lot of money to get a very rigid picatiny rail for bi-pod, lights, sling, etc...

Cheers,
E.

 

[1stmarine]

two great hunting bullets in .308 winchester. Low bc solid copper.

.308 TSX 168gr LEFT, .308 TSX 180gr RIGHT 1:10 rate of twist is needed.

 

[1stmarine]

Finally I have the solution for the stock issue. I have documented everything the best I could. I used red locktite to put everything together and it seems that the stock might be able to live after major CPR. I am going to expand this with a detail list of the bolt threads and dimensions. I probably need to go back to the ACE hardware store and write it down.































I hope this helps you or someone you know.
Thanks.