Remington 870 Express Quality?

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Brass Rain

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It seems like I've read a few reports of the Remington 870 Express line not being so great, but I don't remember any specifics. A quick Googling is mainly popping up results from years ago, not current information. I've owned a Mossberg 500 and liked it a lot, but would like to try something different for my next pump shotgun. I like the looks of the Remington, but I'm not about to buy a poor quality gun if the Remington is such. Not if I can avoid it, at least.
 
I have two 870 express one in 12 and one in 20 ga. have ran thousands of rounds through them with never any malfuntions.
 
I had many problems with the action binding up real bad, but once it went back to the factory there has been no problems.
 
I've had a few and have had good luck with them. Most of the negatives seem to be about tight or rough chambers. But a lot of the complainers are using the cheap Winchester Wal-Mart value pack shells.
 
I bought a synthetic Express specifically to have a gun I can beat up and not feel bad about it, and I have indeed done so. Dragged through the sagebrush, in the back of the truck with muddy dogs, rode hard, put away wet, not cleaned for months, one day I cranked through a whole case of S&B birdshot shooting clays with it. Bang. Every single time. Maybe I don't know what I'm missing with pricing, and maybe one day when I'm rich I'll get myself a Citori or something, but in the meantime I use it for everything, and I would buy another in a second.

Your decision should probably be if you want to switch the position of the safety from the Mossberg you are used to. If you like what you have, stick with it.
 
Remington 870 is a great shotgun. There are several in my family and I have one myself. IMO, you have to spend allot more money to get a shotgun that can do anything better than an 870 other than look prettier.

I have never had a malfunction with mine. My best friend has been shooting one since age 14 (we are now in our 30s) and he swears his has never hiccuped. His gun has seen a ridiculous amount of shooting too.
 
There's a total of just over 10 million (10,000,000) 870s of various models (Wingmaster, Special Field, Trap/TB/TC, Special Purpose, Sportsman Pump, Police, Express, etc.) out there as we speak. I don't have any idea how many of those are Express guns - a few million though, I'd say, because a good many of those 10 million 870s were sold before the Express guns came along in, what, the late 1980s/early 1990s? Even so, I'd guess there are two or three million Expresses out there, maybe even more - I'm guessing, I don't really know.

As far as I know, the Express guns evolved out of the short-lived Sportsman 12 Pump (see http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=226191350 for pictures of one, which example BTW I consider seriously overpriced). This seems to me to have been Remington's first effort at producing an economy shotgun (they did a similar version of the 1100 at the same time). The Sportsman pump was less polished externally and had very plain wood compared to the Wingmaster, and was priced accordingly. But it was still an 870 in every regard.

The same was true of the older Express guns. The only differences were in the finish and furniture. Express guns as a rule have birch or synthetic furniture as opposed to the bowling-pin finished walnut of the Wingmaster (some of the newest Express models have laminated wood), though our oldest Express here has very plain, straight grain, matte finish walnut furniture with impressed checkering. There were no internal differences at all as far as parts were concerned in these older Expresses - just finish. That finish was a matte blue, apparently produced by sandblasting then bluing the shotgun. That precluded the expensive hand polishing and high gloss bluing that made Wingmasters cost considerably more.

As things evolved, in a search for ever less expensive manufacturing processes for the Express guns, Remington began to use some less expensive parts in the Express guns, like the MIM extractor, and changed the design slightly to incorporate a one-piece plastic magazine spring retainer and magazine cap detent. This multifunction plastic piece is retained by two dimples pressed into the magazine tube, and these dimples preclude the use of magazine extensions. The barrels made for these Express guns lack the spring-loaded detent in the barrel ring that kept the magazine cap in place on older model Express guns.

These changes complicated things somewhat for 870 fans. Some people wanted to put magazine extensions on guns with dimples in the magazine tubes, and had to find various ways to get rid of the dimples. But getting rid of the dimples also did away with the magazine spring retainer/magazine cap detent, which could be problematical if the extension was removed and the gun restored to its original four-shot magazine condition - there was nothing to keep the magazine spring in place save the magazine cap, and the magazine cap tended to loosen without its detent mechanism in place unless some alternative (teflon tape, etc) was used.

Remington ships its guns with a heavy brown cosmoline-like preservative sprayed on inside and out, to keep them from rusting during storage and shipping till they are sold. Express guns are no different. The manual says to clean the new gun before use to remove this sticky preservative - but how many guys read and follow instructions? So lots of new Express guns got unboxed, assembled and shot immediately without the suggested cleaning, and with the sticky brown preservative still in place in the bore and chamber.

Result?

Sticky chambers and difficult extraction in some of those guns. Big surprise.

True, Remington's quality control was not what it should have been in some cases, and guns with rougher than normal chambers got released. Those too caused sticky extraction in some cases. But a good cleaning and a change in ammo fixed a lot of the sticky extraction problems caused by not removing the preservative. There were cases where chambers needed further attention, and some problems persisted even after attempts to remedy them. The folks afflicted with those problem Express guns sounded off, as indeed they had a right to do. How many of them were there really? I don't know. More than there should have been, I'll grant you that. Has this problem been addressed by Remington in newer Express guns? It seems so, it seems to me there are a lot less complaints of this nature now than there were a few years ago. But that's just an impression from the amount of time I spend here and on other boards, I have no statistics reliable or otherwise to back up my impression.

And that's about all I can offer on the subject. We have a buncha Express guns here, ten or a dozen in various gauges and configurations, and all of them bought used and cheap. We haven't had any mechanical problems with any of them, MIM parts and all. The only 'sticky' 870 barrel I've ever had was one that came off an 870 Police gun, supposedly the top of the line of 870s, and it only disliked Fiocchi shells - go figure. And when did I discover this fact? In a shotgun class, of course, after I violated all the known rules about taking untried ammo into a class setting. A Rolling Thunder drill will tell you a lot about how your shotgun runs when it's hot... .

And there's that rust thing. As I said, the factory preservative is brown, and when you wipe it off, it turns your cleaning rag brown too. Some folks seem to think that's rust. Yes, some Express guns seem not to have been rinsed well in the hot bluing process, and their bluing salts might not have been completely neutralized. Bluing is actually the aftermath of chemically induced rust, and if the chemicals keep working you get rust. Of the Express guns here, precisely one of them seemed to have had this problem. A thorough cleaning of all metal parts with hot soapy water and a re-lube with a good light oil scotched the problem. Subsequent applications of Johnson's paste floor wax have kept the problem at bay. It seems the rough blasted finish on Express guns might make them more vulnerable to rust, if they get wet and are unprotected by any preservative. But by the same token, that rough finish holds onto good preservatives pretty well - IF they are ever applied in the first place.

FWIW,

lpl
 
The one I had would rust very easily. I think it depends on who you talk to. I've heard from one of my local gunsmiths that Remington has had quality control issues since they changed owners. Quality control issues seem to be the big complaint when I hear anything bad about Remington these days. But I also see their are a lot of happy new 870 buyers all the time. Maybe it's hit or miss when it comes to the new 870s:confused:
 
Oh and my 870 did not like the snap caps I used, but at the range it ate the ammo I fed it without any problem.
 
The expresses from 15 years ago were better than the ones I see today. (in terms of fit and finish) beyond that, pretty good guns. Only problem I've ever seen one have was when a primer came out of the hull after it was fired and somehow lodged in the trigger mechanism, locking the trigger up. It was a simple fix with a toothpick.
 
the one and only complaint I ever had with my 870 Express Tactical is the XS ghost ring rear sight always comes loose and needs to be screwed back in, but a little thread-locking compound cleared that right up.

oh, one other thing that had me nervous when I first bought it brand new was the ejector was kind of sticky and would barely eject the shell, but after about 100 rounds, that cleared itself up. I really think it just needed some breaking in.

now about a year and a half, and a couple thousand rounds later, I've never had a single problem since then.

AWESOME shotgun.
 
So what you guys are saying is... I could buy one of these, and not expect any real problems at all? How easy is take-down on the 870? I know on the Mossberg 500 it was as easy as bringing the foregrip to the halfway position and unscrewing the cap at the end of the magazine tube.
 
Gees Lee, you really know your 870's! I've learned a lot from you! Thanks for your posting!
 
870 takedown.: unscrew endcap, remove barrel.

Pulling the bolt is only slightly harder. reinstalling bolt was frustrating the first time, easier thereafter. Always easier than re-assembling a ruger mk2.

it's a fine gun. they made a jillion of them and they're still in production for a reason. If you shop them, you can find a used wingmaster for about the cost of a new express. Generally a fixed choke barrel, but a better gun.
 
So if I were to, say, install a pistol-grip-only in place of the stock, the shotgun would stay at the legal limit, right? I know PGO is less effective, it would mostly be to play with, and of course the stock could always go back on.
 
So what you guys are saying is... I could buy one of these, and not expect any real problems at all?

I'd say your odds were good that you wouldn't have any problems with a new Express. Of course, I've never bought one, or any other 870, new in the box- in more than 40 years of shooting them, all I ever bothered with were used ones, and so far I've never gotten a lemon.

How easy is take-down on the 870? I know on the Mossberg 500 it was as easy as bringing the foregrip to the halfway position and unscrewing the cap at the end of the magazine tube.

870s work the same way. The owners manual has good instructions for field stripping. I find 870s easier to field strip than Mossbergs, but maybe that's just me. At least the shell latches stay put in an 870 when you pull the trigger plate assembly :D.

lpl
 
You could also look at the Interstate Arms Hawk 982. It's an 870 Express copy, but with arguably higher quality, and for under $200. I have one, and although I have no experience with an 870 express, I really am loving my 982 so far. Ghost ring sights, too.

My 982 is quite easy to take down and put back together (identical to 870's procedure), but you will need a bit of patience the first time. Once you've done it once or twice, though, it's pretty easy from there on out. You have to get the hang of pushing the latches out of the way when putting the actions bars back in. It's not hard, but it's different. Also, a tip, push the slide release once you've inserted the action bars. I wasted a good amount of time trying to push the bars and bolt/carrier back in, only to find out all I had to do was to hit the slide release. It seems few instruction videos ever mention pressing the release, but it may be necessary.
 
I don't know how new they are, but they're an importer/distributor, not a manufacturer. The Hawk 982 is a Chinese-made shotgun, just to let you know. You've probably heard of the NEF Pardner Protector, which is pretty much the same gun with a slightly different receiver design and a few other feature differences, but they're believed to all be made in the same factory by the same company. I think it also used to be called Norinco Hawk 982.

Here's the one I have:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_871/products_id/91401

Looks like the price went up a bit since a couple of months ago (I bought mine for $185, plus 3% credit card fee, plus $10 FFL, so I paid a tad over $200 out the door).

Most parts are interchangeable with the 870, except for the barrel.
 
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I have one of those sticky-chamber Expresses. It only binds up with reloads. I will get around to polishing the chamber one of these days, but my solution for the time being is not to shoot reloads.

In all other respects it has been a great gun. No complaints.
 
How many posters here have purchased a Remington shotgun in last 18mos or? A 15yo 870 is far superior to a current one sitting in a store.

Anyone remember the 105 CTI, the 887 and even the current Versamax? All had QC issues. The Versamess before it was available to public for sale.

Mossbergs have better QC now. You take your chances with Remington these days. My neighbor just got a R1 back the end of March and last week he sent it back to Remington for warranty issues. He wasn't specific and the mods get up set if @#$*&. Mods have very dirty minds. He mentioned something about failures to feed and fire. He says he should have waited and looked at the new Ruger. He claims he was seduced and his Federal income tax return was just sitting there waiting for either his wife to buy shoes or for him to buy a 1911.

Would buy a Maxus, Vinci, or A400 before a Versamess.

If you can afford you might to look at a Benelli or Browning pump.

I am comfortable using one of our Maxi for SD in our house. I know the house
and I designed it with SD in mind etc. Bad guys have little or no cover. I am comfortable using a shotgun with a 30" or 28' barrel if I have to. Not my first choice. I can move through my house in the dark w/o a flashlight.
 
I can move through my house in the dark w/o a flashlight.

The reason for a flashlight is not so that you can see where you're going, but so that you can ID your target. You definitely wouldn't want to walk around a dark house with your flashlight constantly on.
 
Lee covered things very well, let me add something...

I see lots of Expresses at the ranges I frequent. I make a point of handling and shooting as many as I can, between 25 and 30 so far.

Zero problems observed, zero problems reported by the owners.

IMO, problems with Expresses are quite overblown.....
 
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