Remington 870 w/ Elite Tactical Advantage Rhino Rail

[natman]

The combination of the stock and sights puts the sights too high.

You don't need a light, sights and a laser. The pressure switch should be controlling the light. The laser should be gone.

The sights are too fine and precise for a shotgun, even with slugs.

I don't doubt that the rail is well made and I'll take your word that it's worth the money. The relevant question that seems to have gone unasked is it useful? Frankly, I don't see how. You could certainly mount a set of sights and a light without it.

Anything on a tactical shotgun should be reliable, simple and above all useful.

 

[Pony Express]

If you run out of ammo, it'd make a hell of a cheese grader!

LOL!

Looks neat, I would probably buy it just for the heck of it if it weren't $350. I think it looks better with the factory stock though rather than the knoxx.

 

[roo_ster]

LL:

Thanks for the tip with the Streamlight 69906. I already bought a Choate picatinny rail concob, but I'll keep that in mind for future budget/minimalist "social" shotguns.

----------------

Honestly, that is a WHOLE LOT of rail. More rail than my M4A1 had with carry handle removed and 4-way Knight's Armament forend, I suspect.

On a light, 18" bbl shotgun, it would be about as welcome as a...well, un-wlecome.

In an effort to find nice things to say about it, it looks like it protects the mag extension very well.

Frankly, last week I shot trap for the first time in years and managed to hit this this small clay disk at 20-30 yards purty regular by ignoring the heck outta the bead sight on the borrowed shotgun. It was almost as if the shotgun was designed to point and swing quickly.

 

[c0wboy]

I thank you guys for your input, but I am hardened on this one. THe Rhino looks great, functions great, and ultra high quality. It's win-win-win. I guess I can explain it this way. There are 10,000,000 870s on the street now. I don't expect this rail is for many of them. If one thenth of one percent of folks can appreciate the Rhino railm then I am perfectly happy.

As well one thing that I've learned early is that everyone has a different preference when it comes to accessories. When someone says "you don't need...", my repsonse is "No sir.. YOU don't need.. this guy next to you on the other hand, is another story."

Pony, if you would like discount pricing information, please PM me privately.

Thanks!!

Eric

 

[farscott]

There are 10,000,000 870s on the street now. I don't expect this rail is for many of them. If one tenth of one percent of folks can appreciate the Rhino rail, then I am perfectly happy. [eta corrections]

Good attitude and I wish you luck with your business. You found a niche to exploit, and that is a very American thing to do.

I am not surprised by the cost. That is a lot of machine work on what I assume to be a chunk of aluminum bar stock. Not inexpensive, especially in low volumes.

That said, it makes more functional, if not economic, sense to develop a rail for the Remington 7615P or other tactical rifle. A shotgun is used differently than a rifle. You aim a rifle, and you point a shotgun.

 

[c0wboy]

Scott, if we were face to face, I would shake your hand. The Rhino rail at least on the surface looks as though it may fit the Rem 7615. I'm not sure about the police model in that if the sights are welded on then that's a no go. But as far as the receiver area goes, I would put money that it fits.

That being said, I very much appreciate the kudos. It's our goal to change ways of thinking with respect to the shotgun.

Thanks!!!

Eric

 

[Fred Fuller]

You have to understand Lee that it's equally as poor form to bash an item that one only knows from am internet picture and illconceived prejudgements.

Which seems to me pretty much what you did re. the Surefire product...

Show me where I bashed your product- or for that matter even said ANYTHING about it so far- and I'll eat the next crow I shoot.

It happens I prefer a MUCH simpler approach to fighting shotguns. And I absolutely assure you, my own personal opinions are anything but ill conceived pre-judgements. Still, my opinions might well be different from the opinions of other people, and that's their privilege (or their problem as the case may be).

lpl

 

[c0wboy]

But I didn't say it was you, though did I? While we're on the subject of Surefire, considering how much work goes into the Rhino rail, it's actually a bargain given that there are $350 miniflashlights roaming the earth. Let's put things into perspective.

On a much simpler approach, what's simpler than a one piece kit?

Eric

 

[jpatterson]

Looks like an animal!! I wish you the best of luck, Eric. Certainly seems like a quality piece.

 

[bkjeffrey]

Cowboy has maintained a very THR attitude through all of the nay say about his product.

Thats just my observation of the "mood" of this thread as a non biased outsider looking in.

Though I do think the rail is a bit excessive for my tastes I have to admit it has a demeaning appearance to it that would definately ruffle the feathers of Bloomberg and the likes.

But for the price I would rather buy 35 15 round value packs of buckshot from walmart.

 

[c0wboy]

Thanks gents. Believe me, I appreciate the feedback whether it's positive or negative. All sides need to be heard because when we are talking with the Remington reps in the 14th, they're going to be throwing the same curveballs. Farscott did give a good idea, though, and we'll be pursuing that immediately.

Thanks!

Eric

 

[Girodin]

All sides need to be heard because when we are talking with the Remington reps in the 14th, they're going to be throwing the same curveballs.

You could point out that this abomination apparently has a market.

So obviously not everyone is a functionalist when it comes to their shotguns.


I also really have to question the price tag the chaos extended quad rail cost $130 dollars. Its aircraft grade 6061 aluminum alloy. Granted it is smaller and has few fancy holes in it but we are talking a $230 difference.

 

[natman]

I just realized that the combined cost of the rail, stock, rifle sights and laser is more than the shotgun itself.

The base shotgun appears to be some variation of a Remington Express Tactical, which was a better HD shotgun before all the stuff was added. (with the exception of the light).

It's hard to imagine that anyone would spend that much in order to end up with a product that functioned worse than when you started.

Still there seems to be a market for tactikewl stuff, no matter how useless, so it may sell nevertheless.

It does look formidable.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Good point Girodon.

You guys are taking yourselves WAY TOO SERIOUSLY. These exact same type of accessories are on a TON of guys AR and AK already and it serves no real tactical advantage on them either. It just looks cool. Its another over priced quad rail that the mall ninjas can buy to make their gun look cool. If you don't like it, don't get it but I guarantee you will see a bunch of these on guys weapons and I'm willing to bet they will have sight and a co witnessed red dot too! Personally I prefer a police magnum with walnut stocks and a simple bead front but THATs ME. I'm not going to get my undies all in a bunch because someone else wants their 870 to look like it came out of the next Predator vs Aliens move.

 

[c0wboy]

I also really have to question the price tag the chaos extended quad rail cost $130 dollars. Its aircraft grade 6061 aluminum alloy. Granted it is smaller and has few fancy holes in it but we are talking a $230 difference.

I can tell you exactly why that piece is $130 retail. It's two pieces, first and formost. Just from the pic, I can see that they started out with a thin extrusion, top and bottom. On the bottom portion, there's no real trick pony machining. The rails are cut but not lightened. 3 big holes are installed to make machining faster.

The top portion has minimal material removed for clearance, with a few lightening holes on either side. The rails are slotted but not lightened. Then the whole thing is screwed together. Over all good but not great.

Our rig on the other hand starts out a s 24" extrusion, with excess material being removed. It's a one piece kit, so there is no chance of the rail traveling over time. We incorporate lightening features allover the place, which is why our 24" system only weighs 22oz while a Sig 556 quad, 10" long, weighs 1lb 3oz. That's why ours costs more.

Update: We just landed the front page of Harris Tacitcal.

http://www.harristactical.com/harristactical/Harris_Tactical.html

Thanks!

Eric

 

[Defense Minister]

Looks HEAVY!

 

[c0wboy]

HAhahha.. no. The shoes on my feet weigh more.

http://elitetacticaladvantage.com/products/shotguns/rhinorail/rhino-engineering.html

Eric

 

[Girodin]

The rails are slotted but not lightened.

I'll say right up front I am not an engineer and that type of stuff has never been my forte but I'm having hard time wrapping my mind around the idea that slotting something (e.g. cutting out hunks of metal) doesn't lighten it? Please explain.

 

[c0wboy]

Sure thing, If you look at the rail sytem you posted, it has slots cut perpendicular to the rail, as most on the marker are. If you look at our rail, it has those slots, plus a long slot that runs lengthwise, from tip to tail. Rising above all that there are lightening througholes in the center of each rail. That sort of machine work adds time to each piece, and that translates into a higher distributor and retail price.

Here is a pic to illustrate.



Thanks!

Eric

 

[tkopp]

To derail the thread;

I have a Streamlight ring. It prevented my extended mag tube from engaging the ball detent, and the mag tube walked out on me as I fired the shotgun. Also, as I pressed the tail switch on the light, the mount flexed and swung the light to point at th end of my barrel. The streamlight ring came off.

Ended up putting a UTG shotgun rail on that clamps between the barrel and rail, is heavy, and looks darn ugly. But it keeps the mag tube in place and gives a solid light mount, so it is what it is.

 

[EdLaver]

Eric (cowboy), please PM me once a 1300 Defender version is available.

Thanks,
-Ed

 

[Girodin]

So removing material does make things lighter and if you remove more (which you can do if you have some chunky piece of metal) then that to makes it lighter. So my basic understanding is still correct removing material does make it lighter in both cases?

Saying that something could be maid lighter still is not the same as saying that it wasn't made lighter in the first instance.

 

[c0wboy]

Ed, I certainly will. The system is very adaptable, and if we're honest, the only thing that has to be done to have the Rhino rail fit the 1300 is to move one of the two holes in the saddles. Everything else is a go.

Girodin, you are correct in your deduction. Removing material from parent material does indeed make hte parent material lighter. Many manufacturers take the easy way out. Grab any AR quad rail off the shelf, place it on concrete, and roll over it with your truck. That AR quad will be a flat Stan Van Gundy before you know it. To avoid extra machine work in lightening their piece, many manufacturers start out with a material wall thickness that's paper thin. They go in and slot the holes, pop in a few drill holes on the side and boom.. done deal. We take a different approach. We start out with a material thickness of 1/8th inch, and machine out all the excess material we possibly can. That way it makes the piece light without giving up the superior strength. This is evident in that fact that we have a 24" quad that weighs a scant 22 oz, and a 10" Sig 556 quad rail weighs in at a hefty 19 oz.

Thanks!!

Eric

 

[ArmedBear]

I can guarantee that not everyone in America buys your brand.

That's right. A lot of people like to spend money on stuff they will never use, and don't know anything about.

You show no evidence that you have any experience with hitting something with a shotgun. Let's hear it. 3-gun, Trap, LE experience, whatever. I don't care. Anything.

Like I said, you claim it's not muzzle-heavy, but unless you really do know nothing about shotguns, you're lying. An 870 with a short barrel balances around the center of the receiver. With a mag extension, it balances around the front of the receiver. Your rig balances far forward, and in addition, weighs a lot. 22 oz. not including the crap you hang on it, is a lot to add to a 6 1/2 - 7 lb. shotgun.

Then there are the sights, positioned so that you have to use a chin-weld, which is bad for pointing the gun AND means that recoil slaps the shooter's face. Of course, that's not as much of a problem with all that extra weight out front...

shooter that finds himself in a hot situation where chaos rules and anything can happen

You sound like a Junior High kid who reads too much SoF.

 

[c0wboy]

I'm a 35 year old veteran, home owner and tax payer, sir. That's as much as you'll get out of me, at least over the internet. I also believe in the product that we are manufacturing, if that's alright with you, so if you don't like it, that's cool. Plenty of folks do and will.

Thanks,

Eric