Remington 887 NitroMag
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rbernie
Contributing Member
There is no doubt that the 887 is big and handles relatively clumsily. For a duck blind, I dunno if you'd notice it all that much.
I can't see myself buying one, since you can likely get a shotgun that's good on waterfowl *and* still has balance and grace.
I can't see myself buying one, since you can likely get a shotgun that's good on waterfowl *and* still has balance and grace.
Because I don't want my shotguns to feel like an ill-balanced paddle when I pick it up. Just last week, I bought a 20ga 870 Express. It's a great walkabout shotgun - something that the 887 could never be (and doesn't try to be).
I've never been ga-ga over the Nova, but it fits these criteria quite well in a pump. Of course, the proven 870s and Mossbergs aren't so expensive as to be unacceptable in harsh weather.
On the higher end the 391 Extrema still handles like a shotgun, and the new Winchesters do, as well.
I'd like to see some more good American "walkabout shotguns", myself. There's been far too little emphasis on this, and the Italians have walked away with most of that market. But, like anything else, I'll buy American when there's American worth buying (I don't want a pump, or the Ithaca 37 or Wingmaster would fit the bill).
American shotguns are hardly on upland hunters' shopping lists any more, because American companies seem to ignore that market altogether.
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armchairQB
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I cannot overstate how much the 887 royally just plain is crap. If this is Remington's idea of progress then they are going to go the way of GM and Chrysler.
I used to think Benelli shotguns were a horrible value but from looking at the prices of Remingtons I would have to say they may be the most overpriced worthless items on the gun market. They cost more and are a worse product than 15 years ago. On that note though I would not hesitate to buy a Remington from 15 or more years ago. They are still wonderful values.
I used to think Benelli shotguns were a horrible value but from looking at the prices of Remingtons I would have to say they may be the most overpriced worthless items on the gun market. They cost more and are a worse product than 15 years ago. On that note though I would not hesitate to buy a Remington from 15 or more years ago. They are still wonderful values.
MCgunner
Member
I never liked the 870 all that much, myself, and I've owned a Wingmaster. Ithaca, Mossberg, and Winchester pumps have them beat IMHO. I switched to Mossberg because of the ergos, but have come to appreciate its handling, too. It's fairly light and quick to the shoulder as pumps go. It beats the 870 IMHO. Duck guns, DO need to be somewhat quick on Teal, if not to the shoulder, quick to change direction. Those little farts can make a dove seem like an easy target at times. The 887, if it's that bad, would probably be okay for the goose hunter. That's a bird that a waterlogged fence post can handle. LOL! (aka 9 lb 10 gauge)
Well, nobody ever missed a duck because his shotgun handled too well.
I haven't owned a Mossberg, but when I've messed with them I've been impressed by a few things.
Their controls are better than the 870, both ergonomically and the controls themselves. The Mossberg trigger has a better shape and location, the slide release is bigger, and the tang safety is simply far superior to what Remington stuffs behind the trigger. The Mossberg can be operated with gloves on.
The balance and handling are as good as any common pump out there, and the standard Mossberg comes with cut checkering, a chromed bolt, dual beads, a nice rib, and sling swivels. Even expensive 870s come with crappy pressed checkering, and sling swivels are an extra-cost add-on if you want them.
For some reason, Remington has been able to market itself as "higher end", so there's a higher perceived value that isn't real. That isn't to say that the 870 is a bad shotgun. I have one with many thousands of rounds through it. But honestly, knowing what I do now, I might well have bought a Mossberg 500 instead of the Express (my first shotgun).
Remember, you don't have to buy Remington to buy American. Mossberg and Savage make damn good, affordable guns, and unlike Remington, they actually try to improve their product line over time, not just their advertsising spiel. They're not owned by Cerberus, either, and AFAIK neither one is benefitting from "bailout" money.
I haven't owned a Mossberg, but when I've messed with them I've been impressed by a few things.
Their controls are better than the 870, both ergonomically and the controls themselves. The Mossberg trigger has a better shape and location, the slide release is bigger, and the tang safety is simply far superior to what Remington stuffs behind the trigger. The Mossberg can be operated with gloves on.
The balance and handling are as good as any common pump out there, and the standard Mossberg comes with cut checkering, a chromed bolt, dual beads, a nice rib, and sling swivels. Even expensive 870s come with crappy pressed checkering, and sling swivels are an extra-cost add-on if you want them.
For some reason, Remington has been able to market itself as "higher end", so there's a higher perceived value that isn't real. That isn't to say that the 870 is a bad shotgun. I have one with many thousands of rounds through it. But honestly, knowing what I do now, I might well have bought a Mossberg 500 instead of the Express (my first shotgun).
Remember, you don't have to buy Remington to buy American. Mossberg and Savage make damn good, affordable guns, and unlike Remington, they actually try to improve their product line over time, not just their advertsising spiel. They're not owned by Cerberus, either, and AFAIK neither one is benefitting from "bailout" money.
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MCgunner
Member
Nice post, AB, but you left out one thing I really like about the 500 over the 870, the fact that the loading gate is up out of the way. I've jammed that Wingmaster a few times with cold thumbs trying to reload in a hurry. Gotta hear that "click". The Mossberg is not susceptible to that malady, as with the Ithaca. It's shell elevator is out of the way. Also makes loading with gloves on easier.
General ergos are what pulled me to the Mossberg camp, but handling and quality for an affordable gun ain't bad either. I've never even considered the purchase of an 870 since I got into the Mossbergs. Actually, the first one I got I traded a custom motorcycle frame a guy left in my garage for. He owed me rent money. It was actually a "Revelation 310" branded Mossberg and it was going strong when I bought my camo 500 around 1992 or so. As far as I know, it's still running for the guy I sold it to. It was cosmetically a little beat up. I upgraded the C-Lect choke for a Mossberg vent rib accuchoke barrel and bought new wood for it because the guy had busted the stock and replaced it with wood that didn't match and it had the old corn cob fore stock on it. It was a nice old gun, I just didn't need two Mossbergs.
General ergos are what pulled me to the Mossberg camp, but handling and quality for an affordable gun ain't bad either. I've never even considered the purchase of an 870 since I got into the Mossbergs. Actually, the first one I got I traded a custom motorcycle frame a guy left in my garage for. He owed me rent money. It was actually a "Revelation 310" branded Mossberg and it was going strong when I bought my camo 500 around 1992 or so. As far as I know, it's still running for the guy I sold it to. It was cosmetically a little beat up. I upgraded the C-Lect choke for a Mossberg vent rib accuchoke barrel and bought new wood for it because the guy had busted the stock and replaced it with wood that didn't match and it had the old corn cob fore stock on it. It was a nice old gun, I just didn't need two Mossbergs.
Yeah, I remembered the loading gate thing when I went to have breakfast, and the frustration I had with gloves and my 1100 (which I recently sold).
It's not just that the gate is up out of the way, either. It's the shape, design and clearance. Haven't had any trouble with my 390, even though the gate isn't all the way up, because it's shaped differently from the Remington gate, it retracts about 1/4 of the way up when you load it, and the clearance around it is different.
My opinion of Remington has become: the devil is in the details. My real complaint? They've been making similar guns since the late '40s, and they've NEVER tried to improve on these little issues. Other companies do make little improvements over time, and their guns are much better for it.
Not only that... Ideas for improvements are out there for the taking. From what I can tell, Beretta just copied the trigger design from the Model 12. It was easy to pick up production guns, figure out which ones felt the best, and just do what they did. Remington could do that as easily as Beretta, but they just plain didn't bother.
Now if Mossberg just made a sub-7 lb. 20 Gauge version of the 930, they would have sold me one this year. The tang safety alone would have been sufficient reason for me to buy it. I have made hunting shots with tang-safety guns, when I didn't even know how or when I'd flicked the safety off. It's that natural. I doubt a crossbolt will ever be, though I practice with mine as I hike around, just to try to build muscle memory.
It's not just that the gate is up out of the way, either. It's the shape, design and clearance. Haven't had any trouble with my 390, even though the gate isn't all the way up, because it's shaped differently from the Remington gate, it retracts about 1/4 of the way up when you load it, and the clearance around it is different.
My opinion of Remington has become: the devil is in the details. My real complaint? They've been making similar guns since the late '40s, and they've NEVER tried to improve on these little issues. Other companies do make little improvements over time, and their guns are much better for it.
Not only that... Ideas for improvements are out there for the taking. From what I can tell, Beretta just copied the trigger design from the Model 12. It was easy to pick up production guns, figure out which ones felt the best, and just do what they did. Remington could do that as easily as Beretta, but they just plain didn't bother.
Now if Mossberg just made a sub-7 lb. 20 Gauge version of the 930, they would have sold me one this year.
The tang safety alone would have been sufficient reason for me to buy it. I have made hunting shots with tang-safety guns, when I didn't even know how or when I'd flicked the safety off. It's that natural. I doubt a crossbolt will ever be, though I practice with mine as I hike around, just to try to build muscle memory.
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MCgunner
Member
My Winchester 1400's loading gate ain't much better than Remington's. I've learned to just not get in a hurry, reload it by holding it in my off hand by the action and hold the shell elevator up out of the way with my off hand while reloading the magazine. I don't hunt ducks with that gun much and don't wear gloves during dove season, so it's cool.
I like the BPS, personally. I know it's heavy and slower to swing, but it's a nice gun, if a little higher priced, on waterfowl. Not the gun for upland birds, I'll admit. Aside from the crossbolt safety, the Ithaca M37 featherweight is pretty awesome. My uncle had one I used to talk him out of occasionally. MAN, that thing was sweet, slick action, fast to the shoulder. It was a 16 gauge. That was many years ago, but give me a tang safety on that thing and it'd be the hands down winner of American pumps IMHO. Now days, I'd have to have it in 12 gauge, I guess, steel shot and cost of ammo and all. Hard enough to get my fav 12 gauge loads at the local Wallyworld. I don't really like to mail order ammo if I can help it.
I like the BPS, personally. I know it's heavy and slower to swing, but it's a nice gun, if a little higher priced, on waterfowl. Not the gun for upland birds, I'll admit. Aside from the crossbolt safety, the Ithaca M37 featherweight is pretty awesome. My uncle had one I used to talk him out of occasionally. MAN, that thing was sweet, slick action, fast to the shoulder. It was a 16 gauge. That was many years ago, but give me a tang safety on that thing and it'd be the hands down winner of American pumps IMHO. Now days, I'd have to have it in 12 gauge, I guess, steel shot and cost of ammo and all. Hard enough to get my fav 12 gauge loads at the local Wallyworld.
I don't really like to mail order ammo if I can help it.The 37 with the Browning safety would be the ultimate upland pump gun.
Sadly, it doesn't exist.
As it stands the 37 is at the top of the heap in the category, as you say. But for M37 money, I'm not wanting to pump the thing while the quail fly away laughing.
Sadly, it doesn't exist.
As it stands the 37 is at the top of the heap in the category, as you say. But for M37 money, I'm not wanting to pump the thing while the quail fly away laughing.
Fishman777
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- Sep 20, 2007
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9 lb shotgun...
The 887 (7 3/8 lbs) is actually lighter than the Supernova (8 lbs) and the 870 express (7.5 lbs). It looks a little bulky, but it isn't very heavy. The extra 0.041" coating of polymer on the barrel probably only weighs an ounce or so. An extra inch or two of barrel would weigh more.
I haven't read the Gun Test article, but I do know that they tend to rip guns if they malfunction during their testing. *All* gun manufacturers occasionally make lemons. While I don't completely fault them for doing this, I think that if you judge all guns of the same make and model based on one specimen, you're not giving them a fair shake.
I'm not an experienced shotgunner, but the 887 seems pretty light and feels pretty good to me. If you don't like it, don't buy it and don't take the gun as a personal insult that it didn't satsify your needs. When companies produce new products, they target a particular market. If you don't fall into that group, don't sweat it. There are plenty of other choices on the market.
The 887 (7 3/8 lbs) is actually lighter than the Supernova (8 lbs) and the 870 express (7.5 lbs). It looks a little bulky, but it isn't very heavy. The extra 0.041" coating of polymer on the barrel probably only weighs an ounce or so. An extra inch or two of barrel would weigh more.
I haven't read the Gun Test article, but I do know that they tend to rip guns if they malfunction during their testing. *All* gun manufacturers occasionally make lemons. While I don't completely fault them for doing this, I think that if you judge all guns of the same make and model based on one specimen, you're not giving them a fair shake.
I'm not an experienced shotgunner, but the 887 seems pretty light and feels pretty good to me. If you don't like it, don't buy it and don't take the gun as a personal insult that it didn't satsify your needs. When companies produce new products, they target a particular market. If you don't fall into that group, don't sweat it. There are plenty of other choices on the market.
MCgunner
Member
So, you're sayin' the market for the 887 is for newb shotgunners that don't know any better?
I haven't even SEEN one, let alone picked one up. I need to do that, eventually, just out of curiosity. I don't really need or want one. My next waterfowler will likely be an auto chucker if I get one. Or, maybe I'll upgrade my goose gun to a Browning BPS 10 gauge. I'm shooting an H&R at present. Like I say, waterlogged fence posts work fine on geese.
You would do well to compare it with other guns, while shooting. You may quickly find that it doesn't feel so good. Weight is not the only factor, either. Some heavy guns feel wonderful for some purposes.
There's a difference between niche markets and junk. There are plenty of niche market guns I don't want because I don't need something in that niche. That doesn't make them junk. Totally different.
That would be silly. You don't get it.
What is an insult (not to me personally) is what Cerberus is doing to American jobs, by producing junk that does a great job of selling Italian guns to those who DO have experience with shotguns.
I HAVE read the article. Gun Tests rips on guns that malfunction, and the manufacturer fails to make things right. They gave the 105CTi II an F because it malfunctioned repeatedly, and Remington flat-out blew them off when they tried to get it fixed. It wouldn't have gotten an A, regardless, due to some other issues with the design, but the F rating was because it malfunctioned and Remington apparently didn't care to fix it.
The 887 got a D, for all sorts of factors (fit, finish, build quality, function). I don't want to violate any copyrights here, but let's just say the gun was panned in every category. GT did like the slide release...
After I read that, I thought it sounded pretty extreme, so I went to the store and checked for myself. I didn't shoot it, but I did swing it, and I looked at the details of its construction. I don't always agree with GT's assessments, but I sure did agree with this one. GT didn't just get a lemon.
Be careful out there. There's a lot of BS chasing after your hard-earned dollars. And while you should take others' opinions with a grain of salt, when you find yourself arguing emotionally about a gun with those who have experience, when you don't, take a breather and think that maybe you're the one with something to learn. It'll save you money.
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devildog66
Member
I have seen the results of a head to head comparison to a Benelli Nova in Gun Tests and Remington should be ashamed of themselves for producing such a monstrosity. Given the 887 poor performance, it seemed as though the legal and the marketing teams got together and left out the engineers and the product testers.
It certainly is an ugly gun.
I was thinking of picking up a pump gun and went down to the nearest Gander Mountain (I don't buy from the store but I do like the fact you can shoulder the guns) and played around with the 887. What I saw and felt just wasn't impressive at all. It felt like a pile of junk and looked it too so I can't say I would buy it.
I have an 870 but will admit it isn't the greatest pump out there for me. I have looked at the Benelli Novas and think they seem to have a great fit and finish, I like the way they shoulder. The gun that really impresses me is the Browning BPS with the composite camoflaged stock and covered in the dura touch stuff. That would be a great pump gun for the duck blind. Also, I have a 2009 Winchester catalog and they show a Black Shadow Field gun with a composite stock with a suggested retail price of $359.00, it has the same finish on the metal as my SX3 which has held up great through much abuse. I will have to think strongly about picking one of those up.
In my opinion, Remington isn't keeping up with the quality of the other companies when it comes to their pump guns. The 887 looks like crap compared to a BPS, Nova or possibly the Winchester BSF. They better start producing something worth buying.
I was thinking of picking up a pump gun and went down to the nearest Gander Mountain (I don't buy from the store but I do like the fact you can shoulder the guns) and played around with the 887. What I saw and felt just wasn't impressive at all. It felt like a pile of junk and looked it too so I can't say I would buy it.
I have an 870 but will admit it isn't the greatest pump out there for me. I have looked at the Benelli Novas and think they seem to have a great fit and finish, I like the way they shoulder. The gun that really impresses me is the Browning BPS with the composite camoflaged stock and covered in the dura touch stuff. That would be a great pump gun for the duck blind. Also, I have a 2009 Winchester catalog and they show a Black Shadow Field gun with a composite stock with a suggested retail price of $359.00, it has the same finish on the metal as my SX3 which has held up great through much abuse. I will have to think strongly about picking one of those up.
In my opinion, Remington isn't keeping up with the quality of the other companies when it comes to their pump guns. The 887 looks like crap compared to a BPS, Nova or possibly the Winchester BSF. They better start producing something worth buying.
tactikel
Member
I also went to Gander to look at 12 ga pumps and spent some time mounting Novas, SuperNovas, 870 Express, Mossbergs, and the 887. The 887 mounted perfectly for me, the 870 was very good (I've owned one for 20 yrs). The 887felt light and pointed well. The Nova didn't feel as good, and the forend rattle was brutal. The Mossberg felt "dead" like holding a length of galvanized pipe. As a Goose/Duck/Turkey gun able to take 3.5" shells the 887 to me is a definite possibility. BTW I really dont care if it is plastic as long as it goes bang everytime and can handle rough conditions. I already own 2 polymer guns, and they are light, reliable, and affordable. I hope the 887 is the same.
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