Remington New Model for Competition

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

repawn

Member
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
34
Location
Wisconsin
Hi all,

I am considering a Remington New Model and I am looking for some advice/recommendations/thoughts, etc

Some background: Currently I am not competing in muzzleloading events but would like to - at least locally to start. With that in mind I would like to ensure I get something that would be legal for use in all matches. The thing that makes me overthink my purchase is that USIMLC rules state, "Rifling of replica revolvers must be of the original style" - but it also looks like they may be revising their standards in regards to what is allowed.

Here are a few I am considering - in no particular order:

1. Remington Pattern Pedersoli Target
This has been reviewed well by CapnBall on YouTube and I have a Pedersoli Pennsylvania flintlock in .32 caliber I really like. In addition, I believe it has been used to win Medals in MLAIC events.

2. Taylor& Co Uberti 1858 Remington New Army 8" Black Rock Finish - I would then send this out to be tuned (GoonsGunWOrks?) This model has the dovetailed front site and the forged frame - the black Rock Finish is a nitride finish I believe. I already own an Uberti 1851 London that has about 1000 rounds through it and is still going strong.

3. Hege-Uberti - more expensive and a little more trouble to purchase - but also highly regarded - I do not know a lot about them.

4. Dixie Gun Works Pietta? Not trying to be closed-minded, but I probably cannot get over the mental hurdle of paying $950 for a Pietta. I can purchase the Pedersoli for less (Buffalo Arms has them for $872) - However, this Pietta may be a great gun?

Any others I am missing?

Thanks for looking and any feedback.
Chris
 
I bought a Pedersoli Remington about a year ago for comps, dont know about the other brands, it has a very light trigger, the action is perfect so is the finish in matte black, just had to move the front sight a bit to get it in the bullseye at 25 Metres, its an excellent pistol, check out the Pedersoli website they are producing a custom version in a matte chrome finish.
 
I have a Hege-Uberti myself, of 2014 make.

Basically, it is an Uberti (you can use Uberti spare parts, for me this was a big plus, seeing how I have a matching Uberti to go with it). The main difference is that it has a Lothar-Walther barrel with a gain twist and which comes out 0.001" tighter groove to groove then standard Uberti cylinder chambers. Additionally, the front of the cylinder and some parts in the frame are teflon-coated. They say it's built to Hege specs. What I could observe compared to a stock Uberti made in the same year and less then a hundred serial numbers apart - the lockup is more tight and the cylinder pin is a tighter fit to the cylinder, trigger was pretty crisp and light out of the box, the barrel-cylinder gap (measured, naturally, at half-cock) is about 0.004" instead of 0.005", probably due to teflon coating. Minor differences, really, the main difference is the barrel which is correctly sized compared to the cylinder chambers, which is an ingredient of all the "match" revolvers. All "match" revolvers also have gain twist rifling, as the originals did, but I am not sure if that makes any real difference - maybe with round ball, only.

It can still benefit from a tune-up, naturally. Mine had a slight issue with late bolt drop out of the box. Easily corrected with a file. It also had a slight amount of "dragging" when cocking the hammer, another issue corrected with a file, and I reduced the mainspring tension a bit. If I lived in the states I'd have sent it to Goon's gun works but I don't and sending guns through the mail internationally would be a problem, so I had to make do with a file. If you're looking at something where no filing will be necessary, it isn't it.

It's pretty accurate with round ball. I have not yet developed a "perfect" load for it, but with some rudimentary load development (currently, using 30 grains weighted charge of Vesuvit LC, 5 grains of cornmeal filler, grease pill, .454 ball), it'll hold the 9 ring of a B-19 target at 25 metres. I can't shoot onehanded so well (not every time, anyway). That's definitely good enough for local competitions - I'm actually going to one this sunday ;)

I saw an even tighter group with a 20grain charge (the ones in the middle were worse, surprisingly enough), but I'd have to shift the sights to the right and file them. Maybe some other time.
 
Last edited:
The Hege Remington and the Hege Rogers & Spencer dominate competitions here and elsewhere. That's a tough call as all of those revolvers your listed are exceptional.

Tells us how it goes Branko, and good luck!!! :)
 
Right at this moment, I'd go with the Pedersoli. BTW, they just introduced a revised version, with some internal improvements. Not sure if they have hit the market yet.

Second choice from the box would be the Pietta Shooter's Model. This one is also pretty big money.

The other option would be to talk to Charlie Hahn about a custom revolver. He's primarily known as THE Sharps expert, but is reputed to do a decent revolver.

The North-South Skirmish Association bulletin board is a highly recommended source.

If you're interested in trying out for the International Team, PM me. We're looking for talent.
 
What has been revised, I did a quick search on the internet and could not find anything?

Mike OTDP said:
Right at this moment, I'd go with the Pedersoli. BTW, they just introduced a revised version, with some internal improvements. Not sure if they have hit the market yet.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks you all for the info and feedback.

Looks like the Pedersoli changes are for the chromed model V349 vice the matte black model S349. I also cannot find any source for the v349 at this time - but I imagine it will filter to the US soon enough.

The Hege is interesting - especially since it uses Uberti parts - I can just order replacements from Dixie which is nice. One concern is actually ordering it - but from what I have read people are able to get them in the states.

Mike OTDP - thanks for the offer of trying out - I may take you up on the offer.

Any thoughts about where to buy the Pedersoli in the states?

Is it possible to be competitive without a gain twist barrel? Speaking of which - are most shooting conicals or RBs?

I am likely to have a few more questions regarding your suggestions - thanks again for all the advice!
 
Repawn:

I'd order a Pedersoli from Italian Firearms Group. E-mail them and tell them what you want. Or contact Pedersoli directly. To be quite honest, I'd contact Pedersoli directly and ask them. I know they are working to improve their distribution network in the USA.

I haven't handled a Hege-Uberti. The old Hege-Remingtons were made by Feinwerkbau - and are much prized. Feinwerkbau also made a Rogers & Spencer repro (the History #2), which was of equally high quality and cost.

Gain twist barrels are not necessary for good shooting. Normal ones shoot fine. All the top competitors are using round balls. Typical loads are ~15 grains of 3F, filler (Cream of Wheat works fine), and a pure lead round ball of appropriate size. Usually .454, but .457 works just as well. I shoot .457s at Worlds just to keep to only two sizes (.433 for my original percussion pistol; .457 for original revolver, repro revolver, and flintlock pistol).
 
I am not sure if gain twist barrels are useful. However a barrel which is correctly sized, with groove diameter a slight bit - a thousandth of an inch - less than chamber diameter is useful. All match grade revolvers have both. My bet is that gain twist is perhaps only useful for round ball, and even then I am not sure how much of a benefit it is.

As for RB versus conical, well, depends in part on the rules of the shoot. All allow RB but MLAIC rules are unclear on what type of conical may be used, I am not even sure if a round nose Lee type is okay.
 
Just an update on my search:

I am leaning towards the Pedersoli - they have two Remington Patter revolvers - the Target Model and the Competition Model. The Competition is the newest entry - it differs in that it is chromed, the barrel is about 3/8" longer than the Target and there has been additional hardening of internals. You can see both of them here: http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_17/pistols-remington-pattern.html

The other difference is that the Competition is about $350 more than the Target. I would think you could buy the Target and have the internals hardened for less than 350 - I am not interested in chrome - so I guess I am still leaning towards the Target model.

Can anyone see any other differences?

last question - both of these have an approximate twist of 1/18 - how does that compare to a 1/32 twist for shooting roundballs?

Thanks
Chris
 
Thanks...checked out Buffalo Arms and they have 'em.
B-b-b-but the price!:eek:The P-p-p-p-price!:what:
YIKES!:eek:

I'm gonna have to wait awhile and consider whether I really want it or not.....
 
"Repawn" the choice depends on the type of competition shooting you seek.

In NMLRA matches as well as some state championships, the revolver is divided into two classifications;

1. "Open Revolver": "Anything Goes", Ruger Old Army/adjustable sight, Repro Remington revolver with adjustable rear sights, or any custom-made C & B revolver design. In other words, "Open".

2. "As-Issued Revolver": Any C & B revolver produced before the surrender at Appomattox in April 1865 or replica thereof. No external changes from original design. Sights cannot deviate from the original design. If the original design front sight is a bead sight, it cannot be changed to a blade sight. No custom-fitted grips other than "issued" dimensions. Internal parts (not visible) can be polished, & smoothed. Trigger job allowed as long as declared safe by Match Officer.

The #2 classification follows the guidelines of the N-SSA revolver matches. All revolvers must be inspected by the Safety Committee, and tagged "approved".

Coming to a local club match, the "anything goes" rule is usually followed due to the small number of revolver shooters attending the local shoot. Here in NC, the State Championship has two Revolver Aggs, "Open" & "As-Issued".

I'd take anything Mike says to the bank. Shooting at the National level is a step below shooting at the International level. That's shooting with "the best of the best."

My only experience with the four has only been the Navy Arms Company, (now sold by Dixie Gun Works) "Shooters Model" (formerly, the Rem NMA "Deluxe" Model). I used mine at the NMLRA national matches at Friendship IN from 1987 to 1998. Even after 15,000+ rounds fired, it still keeps 'em in the black at 25 yards with 18 grains of Schuetzen Black Powder, C.O.W., .457 RB & #11 RWS caps.

Still struggling with getting the "original photo" in my attachments to print.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=218762&d=1455862182
 
Last edited:
Get a cheap Pietta or Uberti (steel frame) standard model and send in to Goons Gun Works.

You'll get back a revolver every bit as good as the overpriced Pedersoli/Pietta Target/Hege guns.
 
last question - both of these have an approximate twist of 1/18 - how does that compare to a 1/32 twist for shooting roundballs?
Click to expand...

Modern Ubertis have a constant twist rate of 1/18, and I think Pietta somewhere around 1/20. These twist rates are more suited to shooting longer conicals then round ball, even very light "target" loads with round ball should be fully stable well above 1/18 twist rate. Why they use such fast twist rates I do not know - originals also used them, I guess. Possibly, so the guns will shoot .45 Colt cartridges well.
 
Wow! Thanks Cooldill !!

Branko, that's exactly why the fast twists are there. It allows them to be quite accurate as a cartridge conversion.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
 
Thanks...checked out Buffalo Arms and they have 'em.
B-b-b-but the price!The P-p-p-p-price!
YIKES!
Click to expand...

If you're going into competition and expect to stay there, not compete for a few years then drop out, they're worth it just with that match grade barrel alone and some now are using the excellent Lothar Walther barrels.

However, you have to decide. I competed for a few years using my hunting rifle, a Hatfield long rifle, it got beat up so bad with broken and worn springs and frizzen, that it needed a new lock before I was done. And I had a heck of a time finding spare parts for it. But competing is tough on equipment and if you are going that route buy a good one, you'll need it.
 
Last edited:
yep - the Pedersoli are not inexpensive - but still seem to be well priced for what you get. The one advantage of getting the pedersoli you get the match grade barrel - which is something that may not be available to 45 Dragoon? Though I do have an Uberti 1851 I may be sending him soon.

I guess my plan is to shoot in the unmodified or as-issued classes - in most regards the Pedersoli fits the bill in international competition - so I would expect it meets the criteria for NMLRA matches as well.

Thanks again for the insight - I am new to competition and trying to make as many correct decision as possible from the beginning.
 
I have a Pietta Shooters Model, marked Navy Arms Co. and made/sold in 1986. I did buy it used though, at a yard sale in 2010. Never shot, although it had been dry fired on the nipples.

I've had 1858's, so once I saw the tarnished silver trigger guard and the progressive rifling, I knew what it was. Bought it for $125.00 because the guy didn't know what he had, just a BP pistol he had no use for.

I will say, with the recommended .457 round ball and 35 grains of 3F, it is a nail driver and holds really, really good groups. It also has the prettiest grips I've seen on a repo.

I have since bought a cartridge conversion cylinder, and load .45 colt shells with 40 grains of 3F and crimp in a .457 round ball and it is still a great shooter, to point of aim at 40 yards.

Now, would I spend 900.00 today for one, nope. But if you want a great, smooth and accurate gun, this is one to look at, if you can find one used. Mine is here until I pass on.
 
I have since bought a cartridge conversion cylinder, and load .45 colt shells with 40 grains of 3F and crimp in a .457 round ball and it is still a great shooter, to point of aim at 40 yards.
Click to expand...

40 yards!!!!! :what:

I love my Colts but I have to tip my hat to those Remingtons. They are impressive.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Crawdad1
  • Locked
Remington ………the revolver of choice
2
Replies
34
Views
4K
Crawdad1
Crawdad1
T
  • Locked
Which Remington?
Replies
5
Views
558
theredballoon
T
vagunmonkey
  • Locked
ROA or Vaquero 45
Replies
19
Views
1K
Ephraim Kibbey
Ephraim Kibbey
A
  • Locked
Uberti or Cimarron 58 Remington
Replies
19
Views
2K
Willie Sutton
W
Z
  • Locked
Other make C&P revs
Replies
4
Views
458
Prairie Dawg
P
Back
Top