Remington R51

[Gun Master]

Jeff Quinn's and Nick Leghorn's Reviews of the R51

I found this on YouTube.

Jeff Quinn finally got a sample to play with for a couple of days.

http://youtu.be/2IQEAKGXKt8

Wow! Jeff Quinn gave the R51 a very good review, contrary to Nick Leghorn's. It seems that Jeff gave it an A+, while Nick only allowed B- or C (IMHO). It was difficult to assess the info Nick passed on. I noticed Jeff didn't complain about painful irritation in firing the gun. Also, he said he didn't understand why some people complained that it was difficult to reassemble. It's not, if you just follow the directions.

 

[silicosys4]

I have found gunblast to be a poor site on which to find objective reviews. Jeff Quinn told me himself through email that if a gun has any significant flaws, he quietly sends the gun back and doesn't publish a "review" on it....otherwise he won't keep getting free guns to "test".
Same problem with most "reviews" done by gunrags.

The main reason I don't trust published reviews anymore...No matter how many rags and writers gush over it, I'm still waiting for people who spend hard earned money on them to report back for better or for worse

Given the nature of the sites, I'd trust TTAG more than Gunblast.
What I don't get is people are all about watching TTAG debunk the G2 ammo thoroughly, then don't trust a review from the same site about a gun...People seem to be pretty emotionally wrapped up in the Remington.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

I have found gunblast to be a poor site on which to find objective reviews. Jeff Quinn told me himself through email that if a gun has any significant flaws, he quietly sends the gun back and doesn't publish a "review" on it

So apparently he didn't find any significant flaws?

 

[silicosys4]

Edit..I had a whole paragraph about Gunblast, but I think the glowing review of the Heizer single barrel .410/45 colt derringer right under the R51 review says enough, imo. The warm and snuggly Doubletap review makes me laugh..."felt recoil is stiffer than with most pistols"...." offers two quick shots of either 45 ACP or 9x19mm power, with an additional two shots that may be loaded in just a few seconds, carried in the butt of the pistol." which was followed directly by "most of the 9mm cases required a bump against the wood table, or prying from the chambers with fingernails."

Jeff Quinn has seemingly never met a firearm he doesn't like, and if there is something he doesn't like about a firearm he is reviewing, he won't tell you about it or he will gloss it over as a non-issue. Consequently, Gunblast is a site that holds no interest for me. I used to browse there but got tired of seeing glowing reviews of KNOWN problem guns, and found myself in a short time being able to predict the summary paragraph of every single review....."awesome! go buy one!"

I'll take TTAG's reviews any day, even if Nick seems to be in a mood during the test. I'd still rather have overly critical data than artificial praise

 

[Orion8472]

Watching a gun review doesn't really do a whole lot for me. Whether one person likes a gun or not only shows what THAT person thinks about it. It's mostly entertainment for me. Many people don't like Nutnfancy, but he is one who isn't afraid to give a negative report if it is deserving [in his opinion]. But yeah, gunblast.com . . . I can see that being one of those reviewers who get more to "review" if they give positive results. He's still fun to watch.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Until Hickock45 or Destinee does the review it's all just "yadda yadda" to me...in the past I have found TTAG reviews to be pretty much what I found on the pistols I shot and owned.

Then again, I mostly found TTAG reviews after I already had an opinion and a gun in hand to compare it to. I thought their Glock 42 review was pretty much spot on...but Nick Leghorn didn't do that review.

I think we are gonna have to wait and shoot the R51 to really see how it pans out.

VooDoo

 

[gym]

Has Jeff , from "Gunblast" ever given a negative review? I don't think he has. Destinee, just started shooting a year or two ago, why anyone would take her review seriously is beyond me, her grip and stance isn't even near correct. She was cupping a large auto pistol on one, I had to shut it off. I don't mind but suddenly everyone who has a gun is doing reviews, even a few guys who can't speak English. They would be better off doing it in their native language. Or some guy who gets on and says he's going to review a gun, and it's his first gun, and hasn't fired it yet, It's like watching tryouts for American Idol.
I wonder how many people have had an accidental discharge while doing these videos. I would bet there are several. Or shot the guy who is making his directorial debut, I know it's cold, but true.
Hickock is just too nice to ever say anything negative about anything, but he will get his thoughts across, and is an amazing guy. I take him seriously. Nuti'n Fancy, also may be a mall ninja, but he knows a lot about guns, and can shoot, his reviews are informative.
There are a couple more that are ok, but not many, I like to first see if the person can shoot, that at least tells me if they know what to look for. If you can shoot like Hickock, you must know something about guns. It doesn't mean the driver knows how the race car is made, but he knows more than the average Joe, same with guns or anything else.
A pilot can explain what he likes or doesn't like in a plane a lot better than a passenger.
Many people who critique things avoid actually showing you how they do it, I prefer that they do it above average for me to take them seriously.

 

[Gun Master]

Tests of the R51

Has Jeff , from "Gunblast" ever given a negative review? I don't think he has. Destinee, just started shooting a year or two ago, why anyone would take her review seriously is beyond me, her grip and stance isn't even near correct. She was cupping a large auto pistol on one, I had to shut it off. I don't mind but suddenly everyone who has a gun is doing reviews, even a few guys who can't speak English. They would be better off doing it in their native language. Or some guy who gets on and says he's going to review a gun, and it's his first gun, and hasn't fired it yet, It's like watching tryouts for American Idol.
I wonder how many people have had an accidental discharge while doing these videos. I would bet there are several. Or shot the guy who is making his directorial debut, I know it's cold, but true.
Hickock is just too nice to ever say anything negative about anything, but he will get his thoughts across, and is an amazing guy. I take him seriously. Nuti'n Fancy, also may be a mall ninja, but he knows a lot about guns, and can shoot, his reviews are informative.
There are a couple more that are ok, but not many, I like to first see if the person can shoot, that at least tells me if they know what to look for. If you can shoot like Hickock, you must know something about guns. It doesn't mean the driver knows how the race car is made, but he knows more than the average Joe, same with guns or anything else.
A pilot can explain what he likes or doesn't like in a plane a lot better than a passenger.
Many people who critique things avoid actually showing you how they do it, I prefer that they do it above average for me to take them seriously.

Have you ever seen a bad review in "The American Rifleman?" What gun magazine has, that you can remember?

"Gun Tests" is the only one that I can think of. They tell the good, bad, and butt ugly.

At least in the videos, you can actually see the firing and performance taking place. Both Jeff and Nick seemed to have no difficulty firing the R51.

I don't believe in doing a "body slam" on the R51 (or any other guns for that matter), before they are actually used and tested by the general public. However, I fully support testing and studying them (the guns), prior to selling them, by as many people or groups as possible. Let us (the general gun public) be the judge.

All comments, positive, negative, and anything in between, are welcome, IMHO.

 

[Mitlov]

My favorite YouTube reviewer is Military Arms Channel. He goes into detail, points out things he likes and things he doesn't like, and justifies his opinion in each case. Even if I may not agree with him on every assessment, I can respect someone who takes a calm position and then backs it up with explanation.

As you said, I've never seen Gunblast do a negative review of anything. I've seen him give a glowing review of an over-under shotgun while conceding he doesn't know how to shoot moving targets and just sights down the barrel like a rifle (seriously, look up his recent Ruger Red Label review). Maybe that's okay for someone reviewing a home defense shotgun, but an over/under?

As for Destinee, I can respect her opinion as a "novice shooter's experience" with a particular weapon, and she's open about the fact that she's a relative novice. So am I. So long as someone is open about being a relative novice, I don't have a problem with them sharing their opinion.

 

[atomd]

I don't trust his review. When I first heard of this gun he was the only one (side by side with the guy from Remington that supposedly designed the gun and was also at shot show with it) that had his hands on one. They didn't bring it out for range day at the show even though everyone was looking for it. It's bigger than the original released specs.

Let's face it....too much talk. Not enough walk. No thanks.

 

[gym]

Destinee gets a lot of free stuff and sponsorship from gun company's. It's kind of like Dana Kilpatrick, who was supposed to come in and be the great female race car driver, yet has failed to win 1 race, according to a TV commentator last week, They, I guess her sponsors are deciding weather to give her spot to a male driver with a better record.
My feeling is you should earn the position before the cash and publicity is bestowed on you.
It's kind of like when Jerry Clooney was boxing, all hype. If you can back it up fine, but a good PR agent seems to be what many people have who "cash in on any sport".
I would love to see some young kid, like that 13 yr. old girl, come in and shoot the pants off of the know it all's.
Here is the worse review I have ever seen today on a Highpoint, no gun deserves what this guy who works for Guns and AMMO, Handguns. This wasn't pre planned, I stumbled on it when researching blow back actions. This guy hit a new low in the review he did, it's really funny to see how below the belt he went, check it out, we had enough bashing lately so try to take it in the context of what a supposed writer had the gall to write.
http://www.handgunsmag.com/2013/02/14/hi-point-c9-review/
It's not American Rifleman but close. It was an outright attack. By the way slickguns has the 9mm for $129 if anyone is interested.

 

[andrewdl007]

I may have missed it in this thread, but how do the pistol's dimensions compare to the original Model 51?

 

[ricebasher302]

It's kind of like Dana Kilpatrick, who was supposed to come in and be the great female race car driver, yet has failed to win 1 race

It's tough to win when Danica Patrick steals all your thunder with nothing but good looks and a similar name.

 

[gym]

You just didn't get the comparison Andrew, continuing from the prior post, comparing reviews and who does them. The credibility has to be called into question when a supposed pro, has no competitive wins at their given sport, whatever it is. Granted it's a sideways comparison but we need to question the reviewer in many of these cases, like in other sports.

 

[barnbwt]

"I don't trust his review. When I first heard of this gun he was the only one (side by side with the guy from Remington that supposedly designed the gun and was also at shot show with it) that had his hands on one. They didn't bring it out for range day at the show even though everyone was looking for it. It's bigger than the original released specs."

Honest question; how did Nick, some random blogger with little rep, get a pistol to play with for days a good couple weeks before anyone else? Especially considering they "weren't invited" and all that jazz? Just seems odd. I sure as heck haven't had a shot at getting one to mess with .

As I recall, the small specs were never 'official,' they were given offhand by one of the original shooters (Quinn?) after the unveiling, and picked up by bloggers and repeated as gospel. I have no idea why Remington didn't put out a correction, maybe they enjoyed the accidental buzz, but any idiot could tell you it would backfire on them in a huge way before initial sales when samples were reviewed, so I highly doubt it was an intentional ploy (the price hike probably was, though). Now all sorts of people are saying "well if it wasn't really 6" long, maybe it'll blow up in my face and kill my dog", or "will if it isn't actually illogically small compared to any other compact, who's to say it's lower frame isn't Zamak garbage?"

Totally ruined the gun's rep before they even sold a single one with an idiot PR move. They Chiappa'ed it (MKS'ed it to be specific)

TCB

 

[Gun Master]

R51 and Other Gun Tests

Seems like the quest for functional gun info could be compared to wading the preverbal bovine fecal matter creek :
1. Have your high wader boots on.
2. Poke around with your prodding / walking staff.
3. Proceed in a slow, cautious manner.
4. Judiciously determine firm footing.
5. Attempt to not get bogged down in "the stuff."
6. After exiting, fling off as much of the pollution as possible.
7. Divert your gaze, in retrospect, absorbing all you can from your journey.

It can be as difficult/easy and egregious/pleasant as your persona allows.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

As for Destinee, I can respect her opinion as a "novice shooter's experience" with a particular weapon, and she's open about the fact that she's a relative novice. So am I. So long as someone is open about being a relative novice, I don't have a problem with them sharing their opinion.

Exactly. She's a lot like my niece and my Wife so her impressions are important to me. As well ,she seems to not have an ax to grind yet or take herself too seriously so what she thinks is relevant to me.

That said, the reviews are about MONEY not to informing us of facts - the reviews are bought and paid for by the gun companies with free guns/swag to reviewers I never met and are not me....what credibility to any of them have? Until they hit the market and I shoot one it's all just yadda yadda for hire, IMO. I'll shoot an R51 and make up my own mind...kinda like the G42. Nothing but crap reviews and bitter tears about it not being a single stack 9mm. I was not in the market for one or any .380 and convinced it was probably much like the pre release reviews and opinions made it out to be.

Then I shot one - my wife shot one. We bought one.

It'll be the same with an R51. I hope it succeeds in being something I wanna buy and I'll shoot one and decide if that's the case. Until then the reviews are interesting but won't define/can't define anything concrete for me.

VooDoo

 

[JohnnyBravo]

Interesting opinions for sure.

Jeff has admitted several times, and is not bashful about the fact that he doesn't post reviews of guns he doesn't like so it shouldn't come as a surprise to any thinking individual that he likes the R51 (or he wouldn't have posted the review). You won't catch him writing negative reviews because he will pan the gun instead.

He did mention the malfunctions with a couple of types of ammo so he seems to be reporting problems rather than ignoring them.

It didn't chew up his hands and he didn't have a problem with reassembly. I see no reason to think he's lying so where does he go from there?

So now we have a review from a guy who likes it and no one trusts because of his style and another review that is an obvious hit piece.

This is the stuff that makes internet forums fun.

 

[Gun Master]

Forums & Gun Reviews (i.e., R51)

Interesting opinions for sure.

Jeff has admitted several times, and is not bashful about the fact that he doesn't post reviews of guns he doesn't like so it shouldn't come as a surprise to any thinking individual that he likes the R51 (or he wouldn't have posted the review). You won't catch him writing negative reviews because he will pan the gun instead.

He did mention the malfunctions with a couple of types of ammo so he seems to be reporting problems rather than ignoring them.

It didn't chew up his hands and he didn't have a problem with reassembly. I see no reason to think he's lying so where does he go from there?

So now we have a review from a guy who likes it and no one trusts because of his style and another review that is an obvious hit piece.

This is the stuff that makes internet forums fun.

Ain't it ?

 

[JohnnyBravo]

I just wanted to add I thought it I thought it was great how TTAG placed the R51 on top of a 3.5 inch Wilson Combat pistol and then said the R51 was as big as a 1911 Combat Commander.

Yeah, they are the epitome of unbiased journalism alright. ROFL

 

[Gary A]

Putting one pistol on top of another is always misleading anyway because of perspective. In a photo, the top gun always looks a little larger and bottom one a little smaller. It's not a lot, but it's enough to be misleading and even deceptive, especially in a situation where small variations make a big difference.

 

[silicosys4]

I just wanted to add I thought it I thought it was great how TTAG placed the R51 on top of a 3.5 inch Wilson Combat pistol and then said the R51 was as big as a 1911 Combat Commander.

Yeah, they are the epitome of unbiased journalism alright. ROFL

Edit: That is a 4" commander. I'm looking at one right now, the dimensions look the same. Its definitely not a 3.5" wilson, look how far the muzzle of the slide protrudes past the frame.

3.6" Sentinel from Wilson's page:

The R51 looks to be about as big as a combat commander to me, give or take. Makes sense, I was looking at it in the video reviews thinking "wait...that is supposed to be a pocket pistol?" When I first heard about it, people were comparing it to guns the size of the Nano and the PM9 so I was a little surprised at how big it actually was in the reviews.
7 shots of 9mm vs 8 shots of .45 in the same size gun?
Hmmm....The more info that comes out, the more I feel the whole affair is a wee bit hyped.

 

[Eb1]

Looks like a fun and easy gun to carry. Just like the Bersa Thunder. I do not see what the big deal is. Either like it or don't. I don't particularly care for some handguns so I don't have them. The R51 looks much easier to IWB carry to me than any 1911 style auto pistol.

 

[gc70]

That is a 4" commander.

The TTAG article said the gun was a Bill Wilson Carry Pistol.

The R51 looks to be about as big as a combat commander to me, give or take.

Yep, give or take 1-1/8" in length and 1" in height.

 

[silicosys4]

The TTAG article said the gun was a Bill Wilson Carry Pistol.



Yep, give or take 1-1/8" in length and 1" in height.

The wilson gun you linked has a 4" barrel as stated right in the stats on Wilson's page, and the gun sitting under the r51 is not any of the 3.5" 1911's listed by Wilson as being for sale.
If you look at it you can see by the slide length its a 4" commander length, and if its a wilson combat carry, its only 0.6" shorter than a full size 1911 or true combat commander. My mistake, I'll give that its a little shorter than a true commander,
But
the ttag quote goes;
"With the smaller Officer sized 1911, the R51 is almost exactly the same size"
He never compares the r51 to a combat commander, and never to a 3.5" Wilson, like you say