Remington to re-release R51 later this year!

[pmacb]

Slide bite in a High Power, I can see how a high grip can cause that; not on the shrouded R51, though. Do you mean the underside of the ducktail where the safety groove is? I'm arriving at the conclusion the gun simply doesn't fit some peoples' hands, much like the five-seven or Tokarev pistols with their long, narrow grip profiles. I personally find such pistols comfy since the first joint of my fingers is kind of long, but perhaps if a shooter is forced to rotate the pistol further toward their thumb in the palm to reach around to the trigger, the recoil motion is less controlled and skin rubs or slaps on the frame during firing?

TCB

As a Glock (& revolver) shooter I know I take a very high grip on the pistol. I believe the issue for me was the void left on the underside of the slide when the top of the grip safety moves forward, but I can't swear to it because I didn't keep shooting long enough to diagnose the problem.

It's a shame because I was really intrigued by the gun and wanted to buy one.

pmacb




Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[barnbwt]

Well, Nick Leghorn's review on TTAG seems cautiously optimistic, though I can't help but find the four-star rating rather humorous compared to the previous one-star, when both of his examples ran flawlessly & the new one still has the hated non-tactile-reset he again complains about

I get that the new guns are made better & everything, and that this leaves a better impression on the user, I just found it funny how bad the first review was for a gun that actually worked perfectly in his testing (no malfunctions). Apparently the slide-release & spring design got tweaked to being idiot-proof, so now you don't have to bother doing a function check after reassembly

Oh, he gave it the lowest rating for customizability, despite the fact it already has two holsters, Crimson Trace laser grips, replacement rosewood grips, and Trijicon Night sights available (and did so when it was first released). Not sure what he was expecting on that front, especially for a new design

TCB

 

[gfpd707]

Picked mine up yesterday.

Got mine yesterday. Took it home and took it apart and cleaned it. The disassembly is a departure from any othe gun I have but after a couple of times I have become familiar with it. Fit and finish are good. I have not found any machining marks or blemishes in the finish. One possible flaw is the side to side movement in the trigger. This however is not noticeable while firing the pistol. I am not a huge fan or very accustomed to a grip safety and if I could change one thing it would be lessen the force required to depress the grip safety. I took the pistol out to the farm and put 50 rounds of Winchester white box 115 grain through it. After one magazine to find out where it hits I was able to hit my 10 inch steel plate every time at 20 yards. I experienced no malfunctions. I realize this is by no means an extensive review but merely my initial impression. I have hopes that this pistol will be successful and possible be a step in the right direction for Remington. It's nice to see something different come out other than another rebranded Glock. (Don't get me wrong I love my Glocks). I hope this weekend I will be able to run a coulee of hundred rounds through it.

 

[MikeJackmin]

Another video review here, 500 rounds of various ammo, not encouraging:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/08/17/remington-r51-gen-2-review/

This photo was very much not encouraging - presumably this is about 500 rounds of wear:

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/4111/8110/original.jpg

 

[barnbwt]

You do realize about 90% of those malfunctions were Brown Bear steel case he kept going back to, over and over and over again, in the hopes it would magically start feeding better from the magazines, right? Kind of the same sketchy-ammo-sensitivity that RyeOnHam also ran into, come to think of it.

Wanna know what wasn't present this go-around? Bulged cases, locked slides, failure to chamber, dead triggers. I noticed all but I think one failure was a nose-dive in the magazine. A type of failure not at all uncommon for practically every type of handgun there is, for at least one particular bullet shape or cartridge combination. It'd have been nice if he had measured the OAL of the Brown Bear vs. his other ammo that worked pretty well, since it is well known that most magazine designs only function well within certain OAL limits.

It'd have been nice if it worked with that particular brand of cheap ammo along with every other cheap ammo that was tested (i.e. Fiocchi), but alas that one variety appears to not feed well. The horror...the horror... Lot of 1911 owners out there that would kill for that kind of reliability

The R51 has exactly one source of mags (Mec Gar, I believe) and frankly, they aren't the greatest. Thin weld seams nearly ground through, and sharp, burred feed lips. Remington tweaked the follower a bit this time around, but the metal of the magazine doesn't look particularly nicer, and it is telling that the issues appear exclusively related to the magazine this time (before it was more often failure to get the round in/out of the chamber once free of the magazine)

I noticed Alex noticing that hot/heavy ammo tends to cycle the gun better. I'm inclined to agree based on my experiences (my gun HATES Winchester White Box, nosedives all day long with it). The gun is designed to run +P unlike most all its competition; that may simply mean it's ideal power band is a bit higher than most compacts

I also noticed he said it was quite accurate (my thought is the excellent sights are to blame and full-length grip) and the recoil is visibly minimal in the video for practically all the loads being shot, +P or practice ammo. His hand was not bleeding after ten shots, either (once again, I find it strange how the gun is painful to even hold for some, while others can put 500 rounds down range in one sitting without even commenting about a sore palm)

His conclusion is the gun isn't sufficiently reliable to hang with its direct competitors Glock/S&W/etc. I guess I'm inclined to agree, though I also think the fact those offerings have had quality magazines developed for them over initial generations that had their own reliability issues has much to do with it. At any rate, it doesn't appear the ammo-sensitivity is widespread, or insurmountable. Practically every ammo he could scrounge up ran well but the Brown Bear and German surplus. For a defensive carry gun, isn't the adage to find a practice and carry ammo that works, and use it? I have to wonder if the gun won't be fully ready for prime time with a nicer magazine from Lancer, or something.

TCB

 

[barnbwt]

This photo was very much not encouraging - presumably this is about 500 rounds of wear:

Well, it looks better than mine did, new . Seriously, these are not 'nice' guns; not at 400$ from Remington, anyway. So what wear are we describing, specifically? Kind of hard to tell from a short depth-of-field macro image like this.

-I see some wear lines across the cam surface where the slide lugs slam into it, but none of the distinct gouging/cutting I've come to expect
-Either a machining bur or disconnector-contact peening bur just above the cam? Would need another elevation to tell what's happening there. If a machining bur, see: Remington + 400$. If disconnector-contact raising a bur, scratch it off once or twice with a house key and it will stop appearing (or don't, and it becomes self-limiting). That edge should have been more rounded to avoid it rolling like that, but this would require yet another machining operation, and most likely does not affect function in that location (nothing rubs against the side of the bolt there)
-The area of the cam beyond the initial strike area appears...shiny? Never seen that before on an R51, and that's actually a promising sign that the action is a good deal smoother than it was when the cam was getting ground up by a sharp corner on the slide lugs.

 

[MikeJackmin]

I can forgive the gun not working well with cheap steelcase stuff, but it was not terribly reliable with brass ammo either, and it was unsettling to see the several occasions where steel-cased ammo chambered but did not fire. That suggests a marginal firing pin strike, something which generally does not get better over time.

As for the photo, my eye was drawn to the obvious burr, which might well be less significant than it appears. Another commenter on the site added

Remington uses a NiB or Nickel-Teflon finish on it, but the coating is already starting to crack after only 500 rounds. This is a bad sign, in that they seem to be lacking good application control. It's the same as if your brand new AR-15 had the chrome lining of the chamber chipping off after only 500 rounds.

I don't know enough to say if this is a useful observation or not.

What I can say is that literally every 9mm I own runs better than this particular pistol did, even after discounting the steel case stuff.

An R51 currently runs $392 at Buds, somewhere between a Ruger LC9s and an SR9c with maybe $20 between each of them. The standard for a $400 gun is fairly high these days.

 

[barnbwt]

Those Rugers are poly though

it was unsettling to see the several occasions where steel-cased ammo chambered but did not fire. That suggests a marginal firing pin strike, something which generally does not get better over time.

The R51 has no firing pin block drop safety, so they put in a strong return spring, and the pin has a crazy-long travel before it sticks out the front, I want to say more than 1/8" free travel against a stiff spring. The hammer is quite strong, but also very short.

 

[Tommygunn]

The R51 has exactly one source of mags (Mec Gar, I believe) and frankly, they aren't the greatest.

I've been under the impression, from what I have read and experienced, that Mec Gar made some pretty good magazines. Or are you saying they just did a bad job on the R-51 mags?