Remington's "Ultimate Defense"

[smalls]

I swear, I have the worst luck with defense ammo.

I started carrying Hornady in different weights and flavors a few years ago, but had bullet setback with every round in their lineup. So I swore off Hornady, and haven't bought any since.

Then I started carrying Winchester's PDX1 in 124gr. +P. I love them, but they are impossible to find in my area. That's a major part of my SD ammo criteria. I need to be able to walk into a store and find it.

I have been seeing TONS of Remington's "Ultimate Defense" in 124gr standard pressure, so I decided to pick a box up and check it out.

I load a mag up, chamber a round and manually eject the whole mag to see if any bullet set back happens. 4 rounds out of a 9 round mag had bullet setback. Bad, too. Here's just how bad it was:



Obviously unacceptable. Back on the hunt for either another round with plentiful availability, or a stash of the PDX1's.

 

[ritepath]

Are those different than Golden Sabers?

 

[smalls]

They look very similar, don't they? I'm not sure the differences, or if there are any, but the box says "Ultimate Defense", and is different than the Golden Saber box.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Excessive setback with one chambering and it happens with more than one kind of ammo? Does it happen with roundnose hardball, too?

I would think this would suggest examination of the gun's feed ramp or perhaps the magazines or their fit with your gun.

You may be able to cure the setback problem entirely with some skilled gunsmithing.

Good luck

Lost Sheep

 

[InkEd]

Agreed.

 

[smalls]

I thought that, too.

But I've been rotating the same mag of Winchester's for a year, with no setback whatsoever. And it's never happened with ball ammo. The Hornady I used to carry I had problems with in not one, but two seperate guns.

And my gun is dirty from last weeks range trip (I clean my gun every ~600 rounds, not every range trip), and I can just barely see where the rounds are hitting the feed ramp, suggesting they're not hitting it excessively hard or anything.

But it's definitely possible that they are. I may take it to the local smith and see what his opinion is.

 

[ku4hx]

I had a similar situation a few years back involving Remington Golden Saber bullets and true (my own) once fired Remington Golden Saber cases. I was attempting to duplicate factory loadings in 40 S&W.

If I loaded the Remington GS bullets into once fired Remington GS cases, the bullets could be pushed down into the case with thumb pressure. I have two sets of 40/10mm dies and it happened regardless of die set and expander ball. Having just bought 1,000 Remington 40 caliber 180 grain Golden Sabers I was a bit perturbed. I never actually solved this problem.

What I do now is avoid Remington GS cases for loading their own GS bullets. When I use any other brand cases, the problem simply does not exist. Obviously, this is not your problem, but in my mind there's something going on with Remington components. I've never had this happen with my own cast or any other maker's bullets.

Again, not the same thing, but in the '80s I had a problem with Remington .44 Magnum cases. No matter what I did, a properly sized cast bullet (.430" for my Ruger SBH) would spin in the case after it was crimped. That turned out to be very thin neck walls. I stopped using Remington .44 Magnum cases at that point.

 

[TahoeDust]

Just buy some Federal HST 124gr and be done with it...

 

[smalls]

Just buy some Federal HST 124gr and be done with it...

I almost forgot, I did carry Federal Hydra-Shok's for a short time, and they never set back, either.

But the problem with the HST's is that I can't find those locally, either.

 

[MCMXI]

What's the lot number? Bullet pull is typically high on Remington ammunition. There's a min spec and bullet pull is usually WAY above the min. If there are bullet pull issues the loader isn't cleared to run so this sounds odd to me. Once a loader is running. loads are checked at regular intervals for bullet pull, accuracy, pressure and velocity.

 

[smalls]

I'm having difficult time reading the lot number. Looks like they had an issue with their printer, too... If Remington asks for it (I emailed them), I'll send them a picture, haha.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

May be worth it to have the pistol looked at. If several types/lots of ammo have done the same thing there could be something a bit off with the weapon.

 

[Driswalds]

I would think that is not an ammo issue.
Best to have that gun looked at by a gunsmith.

 

[smalls]

May be worth it to have the pistol looked at. If several types/lots of ammo have done the same thing there could be something a bit off with the weapon.

Could be, but that still doesn't explain why it doesn't do it with other brands. The Winchester I've been carrying, has been rotated and chambered multiple times, with no setback whatsoever. Same with the Federal I carried for a while.

 

[Deer_Freak]

Find some GECO hollow points. You will get almost the same velocity as a NATO load from a standard pressure load. I shoot 124 gr FMJ all the time but the specs are close on their hollow points. 360 mps with 124 gr ammo. That is 1181 fps and 380 ft lb of energy on the target. Close to a 230 gr 45 acp at standard pressure.

 

[smalls]

I'm starting to think my criteria of "must be found locally" is going to have to get thrown out. It opens up my options, but I feel like the shipping is going to kill me. I don't think I have the kind of money to buy a large enough order to justify shipping.

But I'll check them out, and save some pennies.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I could be that some ammo makers/types are crimped stronger than others so they can take the push that the pistol is putting on the barrel. I still think the pistol should be looked at since I would worry about a round being chambered (which may have worked fine in a dry run) but it's now pushed back in far enough to create a nasty pressure situation and a possible
ka-boom.

 

[TexAg]

Local ammo around here seems to alway be so overpriced that shipping is the only way to go. Academy and Wal-Mart being the exceptions, but they are sold out often and don't carry the good stuff or don't carry it in 50 round boxes. I hate 20 round boxes.

 

[MCMXI]

Could be, but that still doesn't explain why it doesn't do it with other brands.

Does the other ammunition have the same OAL and ogive profile? If not, you're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Gtscotty]

I'd second the HSTs, I use them in 40 and 9, and haven't had any setback problems. Also they consistently test out as one of the best defensive rounds in all three main chamberings. Just order several boxes of whatever you decide on from SGAmmo or whoever next time they're in stock and spread the shipping cost out.

 

[TahoeDust]

Find some GECO hollow points. You will get almost the same velocity as a NATO load from a standard pressure load. I shoot 124 gr FMJ all the time but the specs are close on their hollow points. 360 mps with 124 gr ammo. That is 1181 fps and 380 ft lb of energy on the target. Close to a 230 gr 45 acp at standard pressure.

I shot this stuff for the first time last week. Good stuff! I have another 400rds being delivered today.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

The Golden Saber bullet has a driving band that, if not properly seated and crimped, may result in bullet setback.



I quit using Remington handgun and rimfire ammo long ago due to quality control issues.

For defense handgun ammo I prefer Speer Gold Dot, which can be purchased in 50 rd boxes for less than $30.

 

[ETXhiker]

FWIW, I have been reloading a bunch of 124 gr. Golden Sabers and haven't had any problems with case tension or bullet setback. Since you have had the problem with more than one brand of ammo, I would have the pistol checked.

 

[Bobson]

For defense handgun ammo I prefer Speer Gold Dot, which can be purchased in 50 rd boxes for less than $30.

Same here, been using them for a year now. I've gathered that the Gold Dot is extremely popular here on THR, and I know many LE agencies issue it. Also, I've never heard or read of any issue whatsoever with Speer ammo, or the Gold Dot specifically.

Have you tried these, smalls?

 

[JTQ]

Maybe you need one of these things...

http://www.dlsports.com/pistol-ammo-more-durable.html