Remmington Model 11

[Safetychain]

I have a 1930 version of the model 11 that doesn't have "Model 11" stamped anywhere on the receiver or barrel and it's all original. I've fired slugs, a lot of buckshot, No. 2s and various bird shot. My Problem: I now see that I have been shooting this great old gun for nearly 50 years with no friction ring. (I didn't have the manual or know what model Remmington it was and it seemed to shoot fine at deer & birds. To a 12 year old, it's don't fix if it aint broke.) The fiber recoil cushion finally destroyed itself and jammed up the works. This is the first and only time the gun has ever jammed. I have purchased a new cushion, rivet, set of springs AND a friction ring. Can anybody tell me how the old blind rivet can be removed and then how is the new rivet reinstalled? I can find no info published about this proceedure and the new pad and rivet didn't have any instructions. I hate to grab it with a pair of pliers or worse try to drill it out if there is a practical proceedure.

 

[gb6491]

Welcome to the forums

This might be of some help: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.guns/browse_thread/thread/4b754c938b8cc963

These links do not involve a fix, but might be of interest:
http://www.wisnersinc.com/additional_info/remington_11.htm
http://stevespages.com/page7b.htm

Regards,
Greg

 

[Safetychain]

Thanks gb6491, the first site has what I was looking for. The other two sites I had already found and bookmarked. Good information. Thanks again.
Duncan

 

[iiranger]

This is a copy !!!

This is a virtual copy of the Browning A5 and any thing that works for the A5 should work fine on the Remmies. Unfortunately the Brownings were metric and the Remmies American so parts have to be fitted a trifle. Or so I was told by my gunsmith who goes back into those days. As did his father and step father. Did. Slipping now. Great guns. Should go another 50 years now you know how to use it right... Tiny drop of oil on the friction ring properly set helps too. "And I said TINY" he told me more than once when I came up with an A5. Luck.

 

[41022collector]

Be sure to check that bolt very carefully at the rear of it for cracks.

This is the A5 Field Service Manual, should help in diagnosis of many Rem 11 Ills.

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/ctgy/browning-auto-5-field-service-manual

I have a ton of parts for the Rem 11, to include USED but almost new friction ring sets. I have most of the small parts, screws, lock screws, pins in abundance.

The rebuild for the A5 springs and ring sets will fit the rem 11 w/o a fit. Most small parts for the A5 will NOT work on the Rem 11 due to inch Vs metric.

The spring kit from Midwest is round wire and not flat wire and the amazing transformation of an old rem 11 with a new spring and friction ring kit is a very pleasent surprise.

I do have copies of orig Rem field service manuals, take down, repair that I could scan and possibly email you if my old and feeble cremudgeon mind can comprehend it all.

As for the fiber pad and blind rivet, be very careful here. If you bolt is NOT already cracked, the wrong replacement of the fiber pad and rivet will do it in short order. The blind rivet will pull out with a drift press or a drill press as long as the frame is securely held. To re-install the rivet takes a neat lil tool you can make or buy one at Bronells. It is a shrouded punch that allows the frame side to secure itself w/o damaging the rivet post. then the other side of the tool you use to stake the rivet. The fiber pad should have a keyhole cut out and is easy to install.

Regards,
Mike

 

[Safetychain]

I used a small file to take the old rivet down level with the receiver metal and used progressivly larger carbide bits in a Dremel to get most of the old rivet out. I found a standard drill bit a tad smaller than the new rivet and carefully ground the tip flat with a cheap diamond dust grinding wheel in the dremel. I used this to drill out the remainder of the rivet leaving a flat bottomed hole. I found that I went a tad deeper than the original hole so I punched a couple of disks from some thin stainless plate to put in the bottom of the hole. Used drift punch that fit inside the rivet and took a couple of good licks with a hammer. The new rivet was pretty solid at this point but then used a center punch to lightly peen the base metal a couple of places to assure a good hold on the rivet. I'm very satisfied with my work but developing drill bit extentions and pieces of metal stock to just be able to hit the punches inside the receiver was a bit of work. The right tools would have been nice. I plan to use a little napha to remove the nearly 80 years of oil from the back of the receiver and use some gorilla glue that is supposed to remain flexible behind the new cushion and peen the new rivet down to the cushion and clamp it a few days. I have checked the the bolt for cracks and there are none, not hardly a mark on it. I did stop shooting when the old cushion first jammed the gun. There was still about a quarter of the cushion stuck to the back of the receiver when I stripped the gun. Again, this is a fine old gun. When it jammed with the pieces of the old cushion, this was the first time it has ever jammed in the nearly 50 years that I've owned the gun. I,ve got another one for discussion: When my Dad gave the gun to me, it had a slight bulge in the barrel about 2/3 of the way down. Dad had it checked by a local gunsmith who measured, shot some very hot loads, and measured again to see if anything had changed. He certified that it was safe to shoot. In researching the rivet problem, I found a couple fo fairly simple methods of removing the bulge. The bulge does not change the way the gun shoots. Should I attempt to fix the bulge for the sake of the critical attention it gets from everybody that sees it. I'm concerned that rolling out the bulge may further weaken the barrel.

Thanks for the offer of the service manual and additional parts but, I had already purchased springs, friction ring, pad and rivet from Poppert's Gunsmithing (www.poppertsgunparts.com). I plan to keep this forum and with my son starting to use the shotgun a lot, I may be getting back to you some day.

 

[41022collector]

Ok, sounds like you have the fiber pad done well enough to suit your needs.

A note here.... Savage 700 series and the Brownings do not use a fiber pad and rivet, these are exclusive to the Model11. I have known many of Mod 11 that go w/o the pad and rivet and if you ever decide to go w/o the pad, just make sure the rivet post is removed. The rivet is what causes 99% of the cracked bolts.

The barrel probably buldged from steel shot or a slug being ran down the wrong choked barrel. Not so much a hot load, but a resitrictive load is a bad thing for these barrels. Steel shot should never be used in Rem 11 and Old Belgium Brownings, The Savage 700 series (same as the 11 and A5) seems to have a different barrel metallurgy and I have never seen a buldged savage barrel, even ones that have been abused. The newer Japanese made Brownings can take steel shot just fine.

You will notice many of the Military used pieces that were used in Korea and Nam, their barrels are buldged all over the place due to them using steel slugs, flechettes, minpetants (small missiles for armor piercing) and a host of other bad for the Rem 11 barrel rounds.

If the buldge is not problematic and you say a smith certified it. I would buy some stress tape (most tool and die supply shops have it, if you cannot find it, let me know and I will send you some at cost) and install it in the bulge area. To install, clean the area with a solvent cleaner, then with rubbing alcohol. Peel the backing off the tape strip, stretch the strip per the instructions, apply to the stressed area. Go out and shoot standard loads, like at a clays range or something similar or what you would regularly use for upland game and such. The strip will turn a bright RED if that area is over stressed, it will remain blue or a rainbow color if no stress. You can leave the tape in place for good measure or replace now and then. But rem to check it. This same tape is used at arsenals to "proof" various rebuilt weapons. DO NOT TRY TO PROOF (high pressure or restrictive rounds) THE BARREL YOURSELF, YOU CAN REALLY GET HURT OR HURT SOMEONE ELSE.

I would suggest to get a Savage slug barrel if you are going to shoot slugs. They can be found often on Gunbroker for about $100.00 average.

If you decide to cut the barrel down, just rem legal length issues, cut square, use soft stones to crown the barrel and also use a bore measure from brownells to check what the choke is, if you want to change the choke, either install an adjustable choke or use the barrel interal bore hones to create your bore the way you want.

Hope some of this helps. My rem 11 has served me for close to 25 years flawlessly. With minor adjustments and care, your piece should last yet another generation. I am currently involved in a total restoration of a 1923 "Sportsman" Rem 11.

I will be placing some of the spare parts lots for the rem model 11 here soon, in the for sale section.

Oh, one more note on the Rem 11, next time you take down completely, soak the action spring tube in a cleaner solvent like Kroil, LPS etc... and use a .40 cal bronze.brass brush down that tube and clean it out. You would be very surprised all the junk that collects on that tube that can litterally rob performance from your piece.

Regards,
Mike

 

[Safetychain]

Thanks Mike, I will heed your warnings and suggestions. The gun is used skeet and dove now days. I've moved to a 30-30 and Ruger Super Redhawk 44 Mag for deer. When I was young using dogs and the shotgun was the only way we hunted deer here in the SC lowcountry. Now rifle, pistol, and bow are the way its done. I believe ducks are the only thing requiring steel and that kind of hunting requires real early rise times over water in this area. That's hard on the body nowdays.

I will clean the action spring tube. I took it out doing the rivet work on the kitchen table and won't ever do that again, especially when the wife is home. Magazine tube spring, the one inside the tube is another area that had a lot of crud. I guess after you drop some shells in the mud, they should be at least wiped off before putting them in.

Thanks,
Duncan