Republican Governor of Florida Rick Scott signs landmark anti-gun bill!

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Appears some folks here view retreating to the Alamo as a smart tactical move.

No.

Would the Texans have been any less dead if they had met Santa Anna's army on the open plain?
No, they would still have died- and a lot faster. By buying time for Sam Houston to marshall his forces, the war was won.

I do not believe this war of ideology can be won without a major historical event.
I also believe that event is coming. Maybe not in my lifetime, but probably in that of my children.

But we can and must keep fighting so that there will be an opportunity to make offensives in the future. THIS battlefield, at this time in history, is an untenable position for Florida gun owners to make a stand.

Churchill fled Dunkirk to save his army. McArthur left the Phillipines.
Like them we will be back.

 

[barnbwt]

To those of you thinking "we'l let SCOTUS fix this," do realize that it takes at least ten years for them to hear a case, that they have ruled in our favor exactly TWICE, and have failed to enforce those two rulings for over a decade ever since they were issued.

How different a place will America be in ten, twenty years on our current trajectory?

 

[luger fan]

So broward county deps and the fbi fail to do there job on a scummy mental defective and the legislature and governor tighten gun laws.

Make perfect sense in bizzarro world.

Well SOMEONE has to pay and it's easier to blame the TOOL than the TOOLS that dropped the ball.

 

[CoalTrain49]

So I'll ask again... Did the founding fathers intend for the BOR to be independently applicable to people based on different adult ages?

Probably not. A reasonable assumption would be that they didn't. But congress has made the distinction between pistols and long guns. Nobody has ever been successful in challenging that. You can be sure that any challenge to the FL state law will face the same arguement that was presented in numerous lower courts with regard to AR's. The lower courts have maintained that states have a right to regulate AR's under the guise of public safety. That will be the same argument that FL will use. It was the same argument used to get GCA passed in congress.

I'm not advocating any of this. I'm just saying this is probably what's going to happen. By the letter of the law and previous court decisions FL will prevail in the lower courts. Any constitutional challenge would have to get to the SC and the chances of that happening are slim to none.

 

[yokel]

We live in the most free nation in the world, but many of our countrymen haven’t been raised with the skill set to use that freedom responsibly.

The advocates of gun control take as their first principle that the American people are morally incompetent creatures of passion. The America they envision for us is, accordingly, more like a national 24-hour day-care center than a self-governing republic of free men and women. If we agree to accept this apparently comfortable arrangement, we will have to check our citizenship at the door along with our guns.

If, on the other hand, we intend to exercise the duties of self-government and justice that are our patrimony as free and rational creatures capable of self restraint, then we will need to think clearly and coherently about securing the means necessary to do so. We must defend the moral self-confidence of America by reasserting the capacity of our people to make the most important decisions and bear the most important responsibilities themselves. And we must retain the material means necessary to shoot the windows out of the national day-care center, if it comes to that.

 

[George Dickel]

Motor vehicle accidents kill more teenagers between 16 and 19 than any other cause according to the CDC. Sounds like we need to raise the age to operate a motor vehicle to 21 also.

 

[2ifbyC]

The quick reaction of the FL legislative to invoke new gun control laws depicts a deeper fear of their loss of political power than their duty to uphold the 2nd Amendment. When the facts are laid on the table, it is inconceivable that the NRA and law-abiding gun owners are considered the perpetrators of this tragedy.

We have lost the gene pool of the men that founded this country!

 

[danez71]

Probably not. A reasonable assumption would be that they didn't. But congress has made the distinction between pistols and long guns. Nobody has ever been successful in challenging that. You can be sure that any challenge to the FL state law will face the same arguement that was presented in numerous lower courts with regard to AR's. The lower courts have maintained that states have a right to regulate AR's under the guise of public safety. That will be the same argument that FL will use. It was the same argument used to get GCA passed in congress.

I'm not advocating any of this. I'm just saying this is probably what's going to happen. By the letter of the law and previous court decisions FL will prevail in the lower courts. Any constitutional challenge would have to get to the SC and the chances of that happening are slim to none.

Agreed.

And thank you for answering. I think we hold pretty similar positions and I wasn't meaning to challenge you personally so I hope you didnt take it that way.

 

[Steve51]

More common sense legislation from people who have none.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Agreed.

And thank you for answering. I think we hold pretty similar positions and I wasn't meaning to challenge you personally so I hope you didnt take it that way.

Well, it's just a discussion and I appreciate everyone's opinion. I don't take anything here personally. All good discourse.

 

[BigBore44]

I’m just throwing this out there for some to chew on...

When we surrender to fight another day, one day we won’t have anything to fight for, or with.

The other thing I’ve never understood is why 80,000,000 people (gun owners), the ones who have the real power to effect change, give in so easily. Is it really because we don’t want to be labeled something we aren’t? Like that doesn’t happen already no matter what we do? Does anyone think that all those leftists, since this bill has passed, are suddenly going to look at gun owners as decent people? Hell no they aren’t. They’re still racist, women beating, baby killers.

If I was a Floridian 18 year old, I’d be beyond pissed off that now I have lost my right to defend myself because of some loser that couldn’t handle his emotions, and because the FBI and Sheriff’s department LET HIM kill those 17 people. And I’d call the NRA and ask to be apart of the lawsuit. And I’d probably file my own class action lawsuit. I’d also be emailing or calling Rick Scott’s office and telling him that he just lost the vote of every 18-24 year old gun owner. I say 24 because many people that age are friends and I wouldn’t vote for someone who denied my friend their right without ever having committed a crime.

 

[Flechette]

Probably not, as that would require a change to 18 USC 922, which would require either Congress to act or SCOTUS to rule on a case specifically speaking to the age limitation.

They may have a good case in that near all the CHL laws have some sort of provision for 18 y/o to carry (usually either LE or prior military service).

I think that this case could indeed be a case specifically speaking to the age limitation. It is the major argument against the Florida law.

 

[Flechette]

I’m just throwing this out there for some to chew on...

When we surrender to fight another day, one day we won’t have anything to fight for, or with.

The other thing I’ve never understood is why 80,000,000 people (gun owners), the ones who have the real power to effect change, give in so easily. Is it really because we don’t want to be labeled something we aren’t? Like that doesn’t happen already no matter what we do? Does anyone think that all those leftists, since this bill has passed, are suddenly going to look at gun owners as decent people? Hell no they aren’t. They’re still racist, women beating, baby killers.

If I was a Floridian 18 year old, I’d be beyond pissed off that now I have lost my right to defend myself because of some loser that couldn’t handle his emotions, and because the FBI and Sheriff’s department LET HIM kill those 17 people. And I’d call the NRA and ask to be apart of the lawsuit. And I’d probably file my own class action lawsuit. I’d also be emailing or calling Rick Scott’s office and telling him that he just lost the vote of every 18-24 year old gun owner. I say 24 because many people that age are friends and I wouldn’t vote for someone who denied my friend their right without ever having committed a crime.

I have oft wondered the same thing myself.

Why is it that conservative politicians are oh-so willing to compromise on an issue just to make it go away? Isn't politics all about arguing and confrontation? If they can't handle that then they need to get a different job.

You can almost see the fear in the faces of people like Jeff Sessions and McConnell when they are confronted. Why? What are they afraid of? Getting called names? Are they in kindergarten?

 

[Coop45]

I don't like anything in FLs law. Maybe it would be better to allow someone in the military to purchase a gun if over 18. I can remember being in 'Nam and I could not vote, drink (alcoholic beverages although I did); can't remember if I could purchase a gun or not, since I didn't try and being in 'Nam, they were supplied. (My opinion!)

This is what is going through the Idaho congress at this time. More of a combo for stand your ground and to strengthen castle doctrine

Senate Bill 1313, sponsored by Senator Todd Lakey (R-12), would consolidate and codify existing law to clearly protect the inherent right of a person to defend themselves. This legislation clarifies that in the exercise of self-defense, a law-abiding citizen may stand their ground and protect themselves or their family anywhere they have a legal right to be. SB 1313 also protects the right of a person to defend himself against intruders who enter the defender’s home or business unlawfully or by force, without the defender having to demonstrate that he reasonably feared that the intruder was about to cause death or great bodily harm. The unlawful or forceful entry is enough to establish a legal presumption that the defender’s fear of serious injury was reasonable—and, therefore, that the defense against the criminal was reasonable as well.

I remember buying an Iver Johnson .22 revolver before Vietnam. I didn't turn 21 until 10 months into my tour.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I’d also be emailing or calling Rick Scott’s office and telling him that he just lost the vote of every 18-24 year old gun owner.

That probably wouldn't worry a politician too much. In the last election only about 20% of 18-29 group voted.

I don't think I started voting until I was about 30. I know, that's pretty bad, but I had more urgent business.

 

[BigBore44]

That probably wouldn't worry a politician too much. In the last election only about 20% of 18-29 group voted.

I don't think I started voting until I was about 30. I know, that's pretty bad, but I had more urgent business.

In the last election, 18-21 year olds could buy their own firearms. Now, they can’t. That would get me out to vote. And the NRA should push that agenda.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

When we surrender to fight another day, one day we won’t have anything to fight for, or with.

The other thing I’ve never understood is why 80,000,000 people (gun owners), the ones who have the real power to effect change, give in so easily.

Trust me, we are chewing plenty here in FL, and it tastes like crap!

But I didn't say surrender, quite the opposite. Not to beat the military analogy to death, but it is a direct parallel with our situation. The Texans at the Alamo didn't surrender- they sacrificed. The British at Dunkirk didn't surrender, they withdrew- to fight again.

Standing here, and now, on this issue would be like when Hitler's generals asked to pull back during the first winter snows on the Eastern Front. He ordered them to stand their ground- which they did. But they suffered so many casualties that they were routed the next winter- and destroyed.

The rights of our youngest adults have been sacrificed- and I hope they do make their voices heard- but that will be difficult with the leftist media filtering everything seen and read. But if the NRA is successful in striking this down, the Democrats will gain seats in our next election- and maybe even the governorship.

Then there will be nothing left to fight for. Winter is here.

 

[danez71]

I just hope at some point you realize that the tactics and strategies for fighting a physical war are much different than changing and grooming the ideology of others.

It's something the antis have done very very well for decades all while too many of us continue tell stories of the battle at the OK Coral... as if it has more than a kernel of applicability.

 

[BSA1]

"I just hope at some point you realize that the tactics and strategies for fighting a physical war are much different than changing and grooming the ideology of others.

It's something the antis have done very very well for decades all while too many of us continue tell stories of the battle at the OK Coral... as if it has more than a kernel of applicability."


The is the most important point of the entire thread. This is where the real war is being fought and won. The teenagers that organized, protested and pushed for the changes in the law were taught and groomed by the liberal school teachers and administration paid for by tax dollars.

 

[SilentStalker]

"I just hope at some point you realize that the tactics and strategies for fighting a physical war are much different than changing and grooming the ideology of others.

It's something the antis have done very very well for decades all while too many of us continue tell stories of the battle at the OK Coral... as if it has more than a kernel of applicability."


The is the most important point of the entire thread. This is where the real war is being fought and won. The teenagers that organized, protested and pushed for the changes in the law were taught and groomed by the liberal school teachers and administration paid for by tax dollars.

Out of curiosity, could we argue the point that we feel like our tax money and the IRS has been weaponized against us and our ideals by the lefty’s using it to control the education system? Obviously, the would take some proof but I think the point could be made. Is this even doable? Is there any lawyers that want to chime in? Is that crazy?

I don’t know, I’m just getting sick and tired of this fight for what so many consider a privilege. So many just say enjoy what you have while you have it and are giving up or are always on the defensive and trying to come up with creative ways we can fight the nonsense when we should t have to. The 2nd amendment and the rest of the BOR was written very very specific for a reason, especially that last part of the 2nd. Seems to me that every time the left wins, it’s a little bit of infringement. If we keep doing this lay low and hope for the best strategy we will lose all our rights. And honestly, I find that it will probably pick up speed going forward. You will see more of this nonsense, whether created on purpose or not, and the result will always be more erosion of your rights until there isn’t anything left. Frankly, I’m surprised with the current strategies of our side, that is has lasted as long as it has. We never seem to be on the offensive.

Also, does anyone have any direct contacts at the NRA that you are close with? I have some campaign ideas of sorts that I’d like to run across to someone. I wouldn’t even mind helping in their creation. The problem will be getting them seen/heard. If the media won’t run them. Think about it, most of our outlets are already seen by gun people. Gun people watch TV shows about guns, read books and mags about them etc. we don’t need to sway our own group. We need to reach the other side. Without some form of media outlet we can do that on we won’t ever be effective at swaying anyone but the left will be. Keep in mind I’m using the left as a generalization. Not everyone on the left is against guns. But you all get my point.

 

[JohnKSa]

We never seem to be on the offensive.

In TX, there have been a lot of pro-gun measures passed over the past 25 years or so. It's a rare state legislative session where at least one pro-gun measure doesn't pass. That's because the majority of legislators are elected by pro-gun constituents who aren't shy about reminding them about that fact.

The federal situation is somewhat different. What practical strategies do you suggest would allow us to "go on the offensive" at the federal level?

 

[CoalTrain49]

In the last election, 18-21 year olds could buy their own firearms. Now, they can’t. That would get me out to vote. And the NRA should push that agenda.

I bought a revolver when I was 16. I purchased a 1911 when I was 19. I purchased another revolver when I was 22 for rattle snakes working in the desert in AZ. Of course I used a rifle and a shotgun at the same time but I know many young people would buy just as many pistols as they do long guns if they could. They don't seem to have a problem with the 21 age limit for pistols now. What makes you think it would be any different for long guns? They'll just use someone else's rifle or shotgun if they can't buy their own. I didn't buy my own rifle until I was 21. I used a rifle that belonged to my dad for years before I bought my own.

You're going to have a pretty hard time motivating that age group to vote. And if they do vote they're probably going to vote for someone like Bernie Sanders or some other socialist as my 19 YO grand daughter did.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I just hope at some point you realize that the tactics and strategies for fighting a physical war are much different than changing and grooming the ideology of others.

It's something the antis have done very very well for decades all while too many of us continue tell stories of the battle at the OK Coral... as if it has more than a kernel of applicability.

Propaganda and psywar are part of every conflict. This is Game Theory 101- the nature of the conflict is irrelevant. Cold war, hot war, war of words, hearts and minds- its all human conflict, as old as man.

I agree- the left has been beating us up in the grooming the youth department. I take kids shooting, mine and their friends when I can talk their parents into it. I engage them on social media every night to try to refute their arguments with facts and logic. Sometimes, I can see their wheels turning. Usually I get called a racist or a bigot- which is funny because how do they know there's a white male on the other side of the screen, I certainly never bring it up.

I try to change attitudes. Once the attitude becomes ideology, it is too late. Could an Anti change your ideology with any argument? Not mine, I'll admit it.

Changing IDEOLOGY usually requires a boot to the neck. I don't think there are enough folks on our side with the stones to do that to other Americans. The Left has no problem with doing it to us, though. None at all.

 

[danez71]

Changing IDEOLOGY usually requires a boot to the neck. I don't think there are enough folks on our side with the stones to do that to other Americans. The Left has no problem with doing it to us, though. None at all.

Nope
I don't believe you change ideology with physical violence.

Our 15+ yrs of bombing the anti American areas of the middle east sure hasn't changed their ideology towards us for the better.

 

[Robert]

This is drifting further and further off topic