Rethinking Safeties

[Ben86]

I recently bought my first gun with a manual safety. It's a Taurus 709 and my main CCW. I find myself intuitively using that manual safety. I mean it is totally subconscious. It's really odd. This is contrary to all the previous guns I have owned that have no manual safeties. Should I embrace the manual safety or fight to keep my manual of arms the same? Maybe safeties aren't such a bad thing. I know if I do decide to keep using it I will make sure to ingrain the switching off of the safety into my muscle memory.

I've also been told that proper finger indexing is a good way to automatically disengage the safety.

 

[GRIZ22]

Safeties are not a bad thing. I've trained myself to do a safety sweep as I draw a semiauto that works on a 1911 (pushing it down) or a DA auto (Walther, S&W, etc that pushes it up). I do this intuitively and have even worn off the blackening on the left rear of the slides on my Glocks as I do it all the time. This was easier for me as when I started shooting all semiautos had a safety.

I keep my manual arms the same and sweep a safety even if there isn't one there.

When the agency I worked for used S&W 6906s the policy was to use the safety only as a hammer dropper. I had already adopted my technique described above and continued to dos o with no problems. I noticed someone (not a dedicated shooter) who had his safety on. I told him that was okay as long as he remembered to sweep it off. He said "yeah sure" and within 15 seconds later when I gave the command to fire, he drew and pulled a trigger with no result because his safety was still on.

As long as you keep sweeping the safety off there is no problem to be solved.

 

[racky]

i'm used to manual safties. my 1911, USP, and bersa all have the same battery of arms.

 

[MachIVshooter]

It's a personal choice for you. I'f you're comfortable with it, I see no problem. My choice has been that carry guns are TDA or DAO and carried condition one, safety off with the hammer down.

 

[rcmodel]

It has always amazed me of all the posts I see where folks say taking off a safety is one more thing to forget under pressure??

Maybe it's because of 50 years of handguns with manual safetys starting with Ruger .22 pistols when I was 14, and 1911's when I was 17?
But I could no more forget it then forget to sneeze.

Same with thumb cocking a Colt SAA when it comes out of the leather, or pushing the safety button on a pump or semi-auto shotgun when a covey of quail jumps up under you.

It just happens without any need to even think about it.

rc

 

[Shawn Dodson]

If you intend to use the gun for defense then I suggest you use the manual safety. The reason is to ingrain the action of ALWAYS disengaging it when you draw or make the decision to shoot.

The thing about a manual safety is it sometimes isn't in the position (engaged/disengaged) you expect it to be. Mr. Murphy seems to make himself known at the worst possible moment.

 

[ArmedBear]

pushing the safety button on a pump or semi-auto shotgun when a covey of quail jumps up under you.

It just happens without any need to even think about it.

No it doesn't. That's why a tang safety is the only thing I like for upland hunting. I settle for crossbolts because lazy engineering makes tang safeties all but nonexistent in today's modular receiver guns.

 

[EddieNFL]

It just happens without any need to even think about it.

All it takes is training.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Subconscious, conditioned reflex. Like stepping on the brake pedal of your car.

 

[usp9]

I carried one gun that had a safety, but I never used it except as a decocker. I prefer not to have a safety because then the pistol is cleaner, sleeker, thinner. I'm fine with those folks that do like a safety, but it just doesn't float my boat. The older I get, the simpler I want life.

 

[nitetrane98]

I know if I do decide to keep using it I will make sure to ingrain the switching off of the safety into my muscle memory.

That's the key to the game right there. I've carried a 1911 type for over 30 years. When I would train and practice at home I would conscienciously practice releasing the safety a hundred times in a row. I tried different grips on the gun when drawing, I tried using the weak hand to disengage when it came up, (dumped that pretty fast). I realized that you can't compromise your grip to get the safety off faster. I've found that I actually feel the safety on the upsweep and then after running past it with the inside of the thumb immediately go down and off with it. There is no time to be lost because it is done simultaneously with bringing the gun up eye level.

If you learn how to do that you can then go to any other type gun without a safety. It's much harder to go the other way. I'd like to carry my Browning BDA .380 but don't care to take the time to learn the infernal European type push/pull decocker/safety thingamajig.

Practice, practice, practice.

 

[easyg]

Should I embrace the manual safety or fight to keep my manual of arms the same?

That's up to you of course, but have you ever shot yourself or had a negligent discharge with any firearm that didn't have a manual safety?

If you have, then maybe a manual safety is for you.
If not, then....if it aint broke, don't fix it.

All it takes is training.

I wish it were that simple.
But I have seen too many very well trained folks forget or fail to disengage the safety before shooting.

Subconscious, conditioned reflex. Like stepping on the brake pedal of your car.

Everyday, all around the world, folks wreck their cars by hitting the gas instead of the brake or by failing to hit the brake in time or by failing to hit the brake at all.
And not just rookies either....it happens to experienced drivers as well.

 

[Boats]

A shooter who fears pistols with safeties is all but declaring that he cannot walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

[dendad]

I also have the 709. I think the safety is there because this gun is actually a SA gun. The slide racking cocks the FP. Hence the safety...

Just curious, does your finish seam a little thin? Mine is wearing off around the ejection port after <200 rds.

 

[thorazine]

There is no time to be lost because it is done simultaneously with bringing the gun up eye level.

Except when your first two or three shots are squeezed off well below eye level.

 

[content]

Hello friends and neighbors // Other than my first pistol, a Stoger .22, I'm new to semi-autos.

I went with the CZ2075RAMI .40s&W. The DA first shot is my safety, I never carry hammer back safety on.
Would there be an unseen (by me) benefit to doing so?

 

[atomd]

The only part of the manual of arms regarding a safety that would be rough is if someone was to alternate between 2 CCW pistols with safeties that are disengaged by moving the lever in opposite directions. Seems like that would be hard to get used to. I have found myself trying to click off a thumb safety on a pistol that didn't have one once...after practicing drawing 1911s for a while. I think we can pretty much adapt to anything with enough practice though.

 

[easyg]

A shooter who fears pistols with safeties is all but declaring that he cannot walk and chew gum at the same time.

Do you point loaded handguns at your own head?
If the answer is "no", then you are all but declaring that you are incapable of keeping your finger off the trigger when pointing a loaded gun at your own head?

 

[SwampWolf]

I went with the CZ2075RAMI .40s&W. The DA first shot is my safety, I never carry hammer back safety on.
Would there be an unseen (by me) benefit to doing so?

Many people apparently have trouble transitioning between the initial da pull and the subsequent sa pulls. By carrying a pistol "cocked and locked", all trigger pulls are the same (sa). Likewise, dao pistols' trigger pulls are all the same (da). It's been my experience that good and sufficient training regimens pretty much obviates any "transition" difficulties.

 

[EddieNFL]

I wish it were that simple.
But I have seen too many very well trained folks forget or fail to disengage the safety before shooting.

I think our definition of well trained differs.

In decades of competitive shooting and carrying I've never failed to disengage the safety.

Except when your first two or three shots are squeezed off well below eye level.

How does not having a safety prevent that? And wouldn't whatever method of prevention that works sans safety work on any firearm.

 

[Ben86]

Just curious, does your finish seam a little thin?

No, but I have only put 100 rounds through mine and owned it for about 1 month. I kind of wish I would have got the SS version, but at the time it just looked obnoxious and girly.

If I keep instinctively engaging the safety when I put the gun on and use it at the range I guess I have no choice but to start training to use the safety. It's funny how the subconscious works. I find this whole situation so strange, maybe I was a big time shooter of 1911s in my past life. lol

I don't mind incorporating this action into my draw stroke. Done properly it will slow me down 0% and allow me to quickly operate all handguns safety or not. Well, that's excluding those annoying upturn to engage safeties. Don't they know those are on backwards?

 

[JoeSlomo]

I wish it were that simple.
But I have seen too many very well trained folks forget or fail to disengage the safety before shooting.

I would imagine it depends on the type of safety, as some are smaller and don't lend themselves to easy manipulation as do others.

 

[easyg]

I think our definition of well trained differs.

In decades of competitive shooting and carrying I've never failed to disengage the safety.

Good for you.
But are you also saying that you have never seen anyone with a similar amount of training as yourself fail to disengage the safety, not even once?

 

[content]

Hello friends and neighbors / Thanks SwampWolf , If I understand correctly it is about consistent trigger pull. Good point

 

[EddieNFL]

But are you also saying that you have never seen anyone with a similar amount of training as yourself fail to disengage the safety, not even once?

As a USPSA RO and an IDPA SO, not once; lesser trained, you bet.

I think the type firearm would have a lot to do with it. Disengaging the safeties on my carry and competition guns starts with the grip (thumb on the safety). A safety/decocker that operates the "wrong" way would throw me for a loop. Every time I pick up a Glock, it takes me a second or two to realize it doesn't have a safety and and I have to make a conscious decision where to put my thumb. So, for me, carrying a Glock would be dangerous without extensive training and completely ignoring 1911s.

There is an old cliche that goes something like a casual guy trains until he gets it right; a serious guy trains until he doesn't get it wrong.

Just because someone, or several someones, do something wrong doesn't mean everyone else does.