Reusing pulled powder

[Jim Watson]

I have no idea what kind of powder it is or how many grains were used.

Trash it.
If you had weighed and averaged several powder charges as you pulled the bullets, you could load it back with similar weight bullets, but now you cannot know where to start.

 

[WeekendReloader]

Not being a "true fact Nazi", but I have read that the gun powder use as fertilizer started from someone saying the high nitrogen content of smokeless powder might be good for plants. Others, knowledgeable gardeners have said that gunpowder will "burn" plants and is just so-so as a fertilizer. (not a know it all, just early in the day and I have nuttin' else to do right now!)

If you dump a pile on a plant, I imagine it would burn the roots just like any fertilizer would. Sprinkle it around over a large area and it should be fine.

 

[Walkalong]

Not being a "true fact Nazi", but I have read that the gun powder use as fertilizer started from someone saying the high nitrogen content of smokeless powder might be good for plants. Others, knowledgeable gardeners have said that gunpowder will "burn" plants and is just so-so as a fertilizer. (not a know it all, just early in the day and I have nuttin' else to do right now!)

Killed a nice tree that way........

 

[35 Whelen]

Hey all. I pulled a bunch of herters 7.62x39 bullets to reload in brass. I kept the powder and I was wondering if it would be a good idea to reload it or dump it. I have no idea what kind of powder it is or how many grains were used. Whats the general feeling about using unknown powder?

I did this with 7.62x54r. Here's how-

I chronographed the load, then pulled down a couple of cartridges and weighed the powder charge and bullets. Next I referenced as much load data for the cartridge as I could find with the same weight bullet, powder charge and similar velocity readings. Easy peasy. If I remember correctly, the powder I pulled down out of the 7.62x54r was very similar to H4895, so I put the powder in an empty powder can, labeled it "Pull down from 7.62x54r. Use H4895 data -10%"

The 7.62x39 uses a fairly narrow range of powder. I'd find some data for a similar powder (Extruded or ball or whatever it is), start low and work my way up. As small as the x39 case is, I think it'd be pretty difficult to overload it. Most I've loaded and pulled down were full to the bottom of the neck with powder.

35W

 

[gnappi]

I agree with 35 Whelen. I pulled a bunch (900+) of 9mm's that were given to me with 6.5 grains of an unknown powder that was known to burst the case with a 115 grain bullet. Simple, treat it like bullseye's starting load in a .40 with 175 grain powder coated bullets, and it cycled the gun every time without signs of pressure. That's about 6000 grains of powder I gained and used all of it.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I did this with 7.62x54r. Here's how-

I chronographed the load, then pulled down a couple of cartridges and weighed the powder charge and bullets. Next I referenced as much load data for the cartridge as I could find with the same weight bullet, powder charge and similar velocity readings. Easy peasy. If I remember correctly, the powder I pulled down out of the 7.62x54r was very similar to H4895, so I put the powder in an empty powder can, labeled it "Pull down from 7.62x54r. Use H4895 data -10%"

Precisely.

I did the same with the same cartridge; some 1950s surplus stuff in steel cases.

I chrono'd 10 shots, broke down 10 cartridges. The powder behaved, and looked like, IMR4895.

I broke down the rest of the spam can, sold the bullets and cases, saved the powder. I reused the powder as IMR4895 in self-loaded, brass cased 7.62x54r.

This technique is not magic, new or unsafe. It is the same technique used for decades by thousands of reloaders.

Unfortunately, some don't want to hear about it.

 

[EMC45]

Precisely.

I did the same with the same cartridge; some 1950s surplus stuff in steel cases.

I chrono'd 10 shots, broke down 10 cartridges. The powder behaved, and looked like, IMR4895.

I broke down the rest of the spam can, sold the bullets and cases, saved the powder. I reused the powder as IMR4895 in self-loaded, brass cased 7.62x54r.

This technique is not magic, new or unsafe. It is the same technique used for decades by thousands of reloaders.

Unfortunately, some don't want to hear about it.

EXACTLY!

 

[LOLBELL]

I can see using the powder if he would have followed the same protocol you guys did. But he did not weigh anything, he don’t know anything about the powder. He would be starting from scratch with an unknown powder. I don’t think any veteran reloader would take a pile of mystery powder and work up a load. I know I wouldn't. If he had weighed a few charges to get a starting point sure, nothing wrong with that.

 

[AJC1]

Never assume pull down powder is consumer powder and grade. I have had several calls including today with an alliant tech about powder... the stuff we get is way more quality controlled for consistency. They have a bunch of tests they do on a batch... basically a truck load... they test it and set the machines to load that batch. When it runs out they test the new batch and adjust the load accordingly. It's much cheaper for them to buy large bulk supply and simply adjust their loads than use canister powder.... some of what they use is rejects for quality of what we would use. They dont throw it away if it's out of spec. My point being use your information from a pull down but it's not an off the shelf powder.

 

[CDP45]

Wouldn’t trust pulled powder. Use it for fertilizer myself.

 

[navysailor1]

Newbie here
A bit late to this thread, hope to get some good info though.
I reload for a 1943 M38 Swedish Mauser. Found a really good deal on some older Norma 139 gr ammo. Was going to shoot it off so I could use the brass. After digging in on the rounds data and asking questions, the consensus was that they were really a hot round (2854 FPS (870m/s). and may be too much for the swede. So planned on pulling the bullets and loading up with my standard 4064 load, unfortunately, I realized I had used up all my powder and neglected to get more. With no powder available anywhere, I was thinking of reusing the existing powder. I would weigh the powder from each round and average it out then reduce charge by 10% and reload. Would that bring the velocity and pressure to a more livable level? What are your thoughts? If I have to wait for powder availability - I might be 6 feet under.

 

[35 Whelen]

My thoughts? What makes anyone think that a company as old as Norma (A Swedish company, ironically) would load ammunition that is unsafe to use in the military rifle for which the cartridge was originally chambered? Did the opinions come from ballistics engineers or people on forums? Are there warnings on the box against using the cartridges in an M38? Have you contacted Norma about this?

35W

 

[navysailor1]

I did review a lot of forum posts including one on this site and the Military Surplus Collector Forum. I also emailed Norma, the Norma reply was I would say, a little ambiguous, quoting a change in 1984 that CIP was changed to 380MPa, which requires a proof mark to use this ammo, however Norma says that their ammo is loaded to 340-370 MPa, but still didn't say the ammo I referenced was OK. Instead suggesting I have the rifle inspected by a gunsmith. I am sure they are covering themselves legally. There are no warnings on the box, of course its all written in Swedish. From what I read European ammo is a lot hotter than U.S., I really don't want to push the Swede to the limit, if you know what I mean.
Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

 

[WeekendReloader]

Well, after figuring out the average charge weight, look in a few reloading manuals for the bullet type and see what powders fall into that charge weight range and velocity. Look at the min and max charges for those powders. Make an educated guess about how much to decrease the load of the unknown powder. Basically, start low and work it up.

 

[swg1]

Hmm, a whole bunch of cases and a pile of powder that came out of them. If I weigh the powder and divide that number by the number of cases, I wonder what number would come up. What would I call that number?

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Hmm, a whole bunch of cases and a pile of powder that came out of them. If I weigh the powder and divide that number by the number of cases, I wonder what number would come up. What would I call that number?

Wait....math ?

You want us to do MATH ???

I was told there would be no math.

 

[mdi]

I didn't bother to read all 66 of the previous posts, but regarding the post from swg1. Averaging powder charges work if all the powder was the same. But, as I understand it, and I've read that powders can be tested and the load determined for a specific pressure and velocity for that individual batch of powder. Like maybe batch XXX loaded to 47.0 gr gives 2750 fps, and batch YYY gives the same velocity, but with a charge of 45.5 gr. and the manufacturer adjusts the YYY powder charge to the 2750. So, a different "run" of ammo will produce the designated pressure/velocity, but with a different powder/powder charge, so averaging wouldn't work...

Don't know how well I explained it, but it made sense in my head...

 

[swg1]

Correct. I assumed one lot number. Yer mileage may very with mixed lots. Good observation on mdi's part.

 

[navysailor1]

Am assuming it is the same lot as it is one box of 20, I have been looking on line and in my swede reload data book like weekendreloads recommended

Well, after figuring out the average charge weight, look in a few reloading manuals for the bullet type and see what powders fall into that charge weight range and velocity. Look at the min and max charges for those powders. Make an educated guess about how much to decrease the load of the unknown powder. Basically, start low and work it up.

and I can't find anything close to what I have - maybe someone could find something.
Average charge so far is 47.2 gr at 2750 fps for a 139 grain norma bullet.

 

[milsurpguy]

I use milsurp power and mil pull down powder all the time. I don't know what all the chicken Littles are affraid of, any semi capable reloader should be able to work up a load with mystery powder especially if you know what it came from.
Probably should have weighed powder from several of the rounds. But that's cheating I guess.

Many moons ago I took a chance and bought a powder called cbi. There was literally no load data anywhere. All I knew was it was a single base flake powder that was low density and kinda faster burning. I treated it like clays or nitro100 even though those are double base. I quickly discovered it's wasn't as hot as the fastest super fast double base powders, but more like W231, universal. Now I have a great powder for 115gr 9mm loads.

 

[swg1]

Norma ammo will be just fine in the Swede Mauser. When the C&R floodgate opened in the eighties, what do you think we shot in the swede? Yeah, Norma, but sparingly only because it was and is so expensive.

 

[Average Joe]

I will reuse the casing, primer and projectile. But NEVER the powder !

 

[mdi]

We gotta remember that many new reloaders read the posts on a forum and some will take it as gospel, because its written. If I were in a situation I might use an unknown powder, but I have 40+ years of reloading experience and very good login and mechanical abilities. Definitely not a "Chicken Little" reloader but I definitely am not cavalier nor do I guess or try to extrapolate with unknown powders. I like my fingers. I like my guns. I don't want to screw up either...

 

[FROGO207]

I have told this memory before. When I was about 10 or so my grandfather and I would go to the local hardware store in town. They had two kegs of propellant. They were cardboard barrels between 30 and 50 gallon size with a metal rim and top. One had a paper that said rifle and one said pistol. They would scoop it out with a grain scoop and put it in a paper sack for us to take home. We would then take some small amount and try it in the load. Get a sqib and clear the barrel then bump it up and try again. Rinse and repeat. If it was from the same barrel (lot) as last time we started low and verified again before loading much ammo with previous notes. We all still have all our body parts and learned a bunch about loading before the net.

 

[Laphroaig]

As a previous poster noted, you don't really know what powder is inside factory ammo, but feel perfectly safe in shooting it. Unless, for some reason you felt a batch of milsurp ammo was unsafe due to the type of powder used, taking an average of the powder charge and reusing it should also be perfectly safe. I think that we older reloaders, who started before the internet was invented, are more likely to have used pull down powder and gun shop powders sold in coffee cans or paper bags and don't find making "Mexican match" ammo that much of a stretch.

The problem with internet forums is that we never know the experience level of the people who read the posts and should probably err on the side of caution.

BTW, I'm in the camp that thinks the nitrogen in smokeless powder isn't in a form that can be mobilized by plants. I know the Blue Dot that I dumped on my lawn did absolutely nothing.