Revolver gurus, question...

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BowStreetRunner

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Revolver gurus, qestion...

I know questions like this get asked a lot, but revolver gurus, what is your gut-reaction value guess on a nickel plated cut-down (about 2 in. i think, with sight) model 10 S&W w/ fake bone grips?

saw one at the pawn shop the other day and its odd look caught my eye....the shop doesnt even know what it is, they think its a model 2909-4???? (that number is stamped on the gun inside where the crane rests)
obviously its not a model 29

i know that 2 in. model 10s have been made but im pretty sure this one is not one of them (originally)

thoughts?
BSR
 
Give us the serial# and we can tell you better what it is. The model# should be stamped inside the crane as well.
 
Open the cylinder and look on the part of the frame normally covered by the crane when the cylinder is closed. The model and serial number are probably stamped there.
 
From the sounds of it, this gun may be pre Model number, which started around 1957.

The 29094 is the right number of numerals for the floor assembly number.

If pre 1957, there should be 4 screws holding the side plate on, and one in the front face of the frame in front of the trigger guard.
 
I wonder if this couldn't be one of the many 38-200 World War Two revolvers imported from England after being rechambered from .38 S&W to .38 Special, the barrel shortened from 5 inches to 2, and nickel plated.

If so, it's something you don't want.

Look for a serial number on the butt with the letters "V" or VS preceeding the number, and no underlug at the front to lock the ejector rod.
 
mmmmm....there was no underlug, which made me think in the first place that the barrel had been shortened, because all the 2" model 10s i'd seen had that little bitty underlug on 'em
BSR
 
OOOOOOOOOOOK here is the skinny:

SN#
988171
thats the # on the inside of the cylinder and on the butt

the number inside the crane is 2909 4

on the cylinder is a weird "M" looking device over the letters "BNP"
 
Now I know ....

In 1940 Hitler had the English between a rock and a hard place. In desperation Britain place orders with Smith & Wesson for a version of their Military & Police revolver chambered to use the .38 S&W cartridge, which at the time was the U.K.’s standard handgun service cartridge. This model, named after the cartridge, was called the “.38/200.â€

The first ones were serial numbered in Smith’s regular commercial series, without any letters preceding the number. The gun in question is one of these. Later guns had the letter(s) “V†or “VS†in front of the number. These guns were produced between 1940 to 1945.

After the war, during the early-middle 1950’s many of them were re-imported into the United States. To make them more attractive to American buyers some were modified by shorting the barrel to 2 inches, rechambering the cylinder to .38 Special (which ruined them because the .38 S&W round is bigger in diameter) and refinished in various ways, including nickel plating. The 900,000-range serial number along with the mark “BNP†which stands for “British Nitro Proof†pretty well identifies what the gun is.

Many years ago I bought these guns for $15.00 apiece and then rebuilt them with new or used .38 Special barrels and cylinders. They came out pretty well, but I don’t think this would be as practical today.

When modified like what you are looking at they make a good paperweight, but not a particularly good revolver.
 
"SN# 988171"

Assuming (and that is a big assumption) that there is no letter prefix before that serial number (an S, C, or a K) and that I have read the rest of this thread correctly it sounds like a .38 Special Hand Ejector M&P dating to mid-WWII.

How much do they want for it? It sounds interesting.
 
I think the gun dates from late 1941 to early 1942. If it was in its original condition (most likely 5 or 6 inch barrel/bright or satin blued/chambered in .38 S&W/possibly commercial checkered grips) I'd fight you guys for it. As it is (if my identification is correct) I wouldn'y give anything near the asking price. It isn't a shooter (at least a very good one) and it isn't a collectable. What it is, is a paperweight.
 
"In desperation Britain place orders with Smith & Wesson for a version of their Military & Police revolver chambered to use the .38 S&W cartridge, which at the time was the U.K.’s standard handgun service cartridge."

WEllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll....

Sort of... :)

The British never really officially ordered the handguns. S&W offered them in compensation after the Light Rifle fiasco...

S&W didn't have to repay $1 million it didn't have (because it spent most of it on Light Rifle development), and Britain got firearms that they did badly need.
 
Mike;

S&W's Plant Superintendent,and later President, Carl Hellstrom offered to sell the British revolvers at a lower price to compensate for the one million dollars. However the English placed orders (or contracts as the case may be) through BPC (British Purchasing Commission) until the Lend-Lease Program took over in 1941.
 
Fuff,

Matter of semantics, really.

The British did have to place orders to let S&W know how many revolvers they were going to take, but with Britain screaming that it wanted its $1 million back, at that point anything would have been a viable alternative.

The offer was made in lieu of repayment of the $1 million -- it was afterwards that the specific purchase orders were inked.

Hellstrom's offer, and Britain's acceptance, was truly a godsend for S&W, and it put Hellstrom on the fast track to become head of the company.

Have you ever had the opportunity to fire a Light Rifle?

It's like you're shooting a .22 CB. There's virtually no sensory feedback to let you know that you've actually fired a gun.
 
Old Fuff and Mike Irwin...

Gosh! You guys make it hard on us amateurs! I thought the Victory models had a V-prefix. I'd love to see this in person to see what it actually is. It seems to have elements of both...
 
The Victory model did indeed have a "V" prefix in the serial number until 1945 when S&W changed the revolvers' hammer block. Thereafter they used the letters "SV" to denote that the gun had the new safety. Some older ones were converted, in which case the "S" was hand-stamped before the "V."

S&W serial numbered their Military & Police revolvers from 1 to 999,999, and reached the higher number in 1942. As their machines could not stamp an additional digit they started a new series at V 1 and went to SV 811000 by the end of the war.

British 38-200 revolvers were numbered within the same commercial, V and SV series as their US. Victory Model counterparts.

(Edited to add) The Victory Model (U.S.) and 38-200 (British) revolvers were identical to the pre-war S&W 1905 Hand Ejector/4th Change (Military & Police) except the wartime production had a matt-gray Parkerized finish and the walnut grips were plain and not checkered. The only additional part was a lanyard ring in the butt.
 
Mike:

"Matter of semantics, really."

Sort of. But keep in mind that from October 1940 through February 1941 S&W production was exclusively dedicated to the manufacture of 38-200 revolvers. Even requests from Uncle Sam's Navy were turned down.

During that time period some money had to come in to pay the bills.

I have handled several Light Rifles, but never had the chance to fire one. I sure would like too.
 
Fuff,

By the time the Light Rifle concept was written off, S&W had spent about $750k of the money on development.

By terms of the agreement, S&W got to keep the remaining $250k, which was apparently more than enough to keep the company solvent until the middle of 1941.

S&W's debt to Britain had been repaid sometime prior to December 7, by which time new contracts were coming in fast and furious to the point that S&W's money problems were well behind them.

I've heard, but have never seen confirmed, that S&W was still sitting on large stocks of some critical parts, left over from production runs made prior to the onset of the depression, including K-frame cylinders for .38. This is another reason why the Hellstrom solution was so beneficial -- it allowed the company to get rid of stock that was only taking up room and which had no forseeable use prior to September 1939.
 
Yes Mike;

They were indeed sitting on tons of parts - finished and unfinished.

Not too many people know it today, but at the time S&W did not have a complete set of blueprints and/or drawings for their guns. Parts were made using jigs, fixtures, and gages. Gages were also used to inspect the parts, and during the assembly process. The company depended, more then most, on the skills and experience of their work force. Put bluntly they couldn't afford to lose them. So during the Great Depression years they made far more parts then they needed, just to keep everyone busy. That's part of the reason the firm was in such bad financial shape by 1939. In the end it paid off, because they were able to produce an extraordinary number of guns early on while they tooled up for even greater production.

From 1940 through 1945 they produced (in round numbers)as many K-frame revolvers as they had from 1899 through 1939.
 
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