Revolver Load Compression

[drobs]

Note to self don't post here after a night at the Navy Chief's Mess.

 

[drobs]

Campbell's Cream of Mushroom - Ummm, very tasty for lunch on a cold day or as a starter for stroganoff but I would think it would be very, very messy when loading as filler.
Sorry drobs, I couldn't resist!

Powdered might work...

 

[paul harm]

Being a ex Air Force man means I am a civilized man and go to civilized shooting ranges and can load the table up as much as I want. Now if I were a uncivilized man out in the field I would be concerned about extra gear. Also, being a ex Boy Scout, I try to be prepared so one more step to the loading operation doesn't confuse me.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Gotta agree with Mizar, I carry an old military messenger bag with my pistol possibles when I go stomping about looking for Jackrabbits. I don't use filler of any kind. I prefer to keep things simple. It can be a PITA to load in the field but hey it was done 150 years ago, it can be done now. It helps if you keep things organized.

 

[paul harm]

I will admit if I were out in the field it would be without the filler and more powder. On the range, less powder and a filler if necessary. At 25 it doesn't take more than 20 grains to punch paper and being a tight a$$ about spending money on powder it's pretty much a no brainer. If I were to punch paper out to say 100yds I'd probably use 28 to 30 grs without filler.

 

[paul harm]

Let's see - Jackrabbit looking for Jackrabbits ? To shoot no less. Is there a hidden message in there ? Maybe you should have a extra cylinder to throw in so when you're reloading the first one you're still prepared.

 

[paul harm]

When you guys talk of compressed loads, just how much compression are we talking about ? If you just mean using a load that takes some effort to push the loading lever down, then I think we all do that. Or do you mean using a loading stand and maybe a rod and hammer ? Or just push really hard on the lever with a good grunt after the ball is in ? It takes a certain amount of pressure just to push the ball in and cut off some lead. I'm just guessing, but if the powder is all compressed together is it still acting like 3F ? I've always been told 3F burns hotter because there's more surface area because of the smaller particles . If they're all touching because of the compression, how can it still be 3F ? It would seem to reason one could use any powder - 1F, 2F, 3F, or 4F and beat the poop out of it till it's compressed into a pellet- they'd all burn at the same rate. I think I must be incorrect - someone please explain where my thought process went wrong.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Let's see - Jackrabbit looking for Jackrabbits ? To shoot no less. Is there a hidden message in there ? Maybe you should have a extra cylinder to throw in so when you're reloading the first one you're still prepared.

Nah, Jackrabbits aren't that smart, they either stop and watch you reload or they don't stop until they reach the next county. I actually enjoy the challenge of trying to hit em with the first or second shot.

 

[whughett]

Campbell's Cream of Mushroom - Ummm, very tasty for lunch on a cold day or as a starter for stroganoff but I would think it would be very, very messy when loading as filler.
Sorry drobs, I couldn't resist!

By George, would never had thought of Cream of Mushroom as a sub for "rooms" and sour cream in stroganoff. One can learn some useful things on the net.

 

[Eyrie G. Dogg]

Although staying with reduced loads in a brass frame revolver is commendable, using only an anemic 13 grains in any .44 seems like asking for an eventual squib. I use 15 grains in a .36 Griswold & Gunnison (my only brass frame) so as to preserve it - but a .44 needs more juice. On the following shot an undetected squib will wreck the whole day. Those are dangersome.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Do they have a lot of problems with frame stretch if the arbor is properly fitted?

 

[paul harm]

20 or 22grs in my opinion won't hurt a 44 brasser and it's a nice soft load for punching paper.

 

[paul harm]

The arbor is always properly seated in a NMA. Oh, you're talking Colt talk. I never knew about frame stretch till I got on this and another forum. I ask a local BP gunsmith and he didn't THINK the frames would stretch on the reproductions because he said they weren't pure brass. But then I don't think he had a lot of experience with brass frame revolvers the way some of the guys here have. The reason I ask him was I had just bought a pretty nickel plated NMA and it occurred to me it was brass under that pretty top coat. So I measured the frame opening and watching real close the back inside of the frame for any cylinder marks. Kind a doing my own test with 28grs of 3F.

 

[Eyrie G. Dogg]

In addition to coining/imprinting on the recoil shield, keep an eye out for any increase over time in the cylinder gap. From what I can gather, 28 grains in a brass Remington style .44 may be on the heavy side. On one of his vids, Mike Beliveau was using 30 grains in a brass .44 Rem. I asked him if that was safe and he said it was ... but he did not say for ‘how long‘. My guess would be ‘not very long’.

Is there any consensus on the question of max safe loads for brass frame open top .36’s? Is there a consensus on anything when it comes to brass frames?

 

[midland man]

The arbor is always properly seated in a NMA. Oh, you're talking Colt talk. I never knew about frame stretch till I got on this and another forum. I ask a local BP gunsmith and he didn't THINK the frames would stretch on the reproductions because he said they weren't pure brass. But then I don't think he had a lot of experience with brass frame revolvers the way some of the guys here have. The reason I ask him was I had just bought a pretty nickel plated NMA and it occurred to me it was brass under that pretty top coat. So I measured the frame opening and watching real close the back inside of the frame for any cylinder marks. Kind a doing my own test with 28grs of 3F.

I bought a new brass 44c pietta last year and in the box it had a warning to not use no more than 25grs of 3f powder so that's what I did followed directions!

 

[rodwha]

In addition to coining/imprinting on the recoil shield, keep an eye out for any increase over time in the cylinder gap. From what I can gather, 28 grains in a brass Remington style .44 may be on the heavy side. On one of his vids, Mike Beliveau was using 30 grains in a brass .44 Rem. I asked him if that was safe and he said it was ... but he did not say for ‘how long‘. My guess would be ‘not very long’.

Is there any consensus on the question of max safe loads for brass frame open top .36’s? Is there a consensus on anything when it comes to brass frames?

Quite frankly Swiss and Olde Eynsford by Goex, like Triple 7, are more powerful than the other black powders, and Pyrodex has shown similar results to both ends of the spectrum. If 20-25 grns of 3F is considered the max for standard powders I’d say a 15-20% further reduction would be called for if using those more energetic powders.

As everyone’s volumetric measure drops a different weight as the next “20” grns is subjective and likely why we see varying max loads. And at some point it goes from good for a long time to just mildly overdone and on to quickly destructive. If 20 grns were good for your lifetime’s shooting pleasure 21 may be good for most of it and 22 being for a few decades and so on, right?