Richards, Richards-Mason (and other cartridge conversions) thread

[Driftwood Johnson]

So, there we have it - the real reason why newly made cylinders were preferred in the vast majority of the cases instead of converting the original percussion ones. Bellow is a copy from page 142 of the same book, showing different cylinder dimensions. Dimension "B" is of interest here:

I must admit I never closely examined that drawing in my copy of McDowell.

Next time I have my Richards Conversion out of the safe I will do a little bit of measuring.

I'm pretty sure mine has one of the 'new conversion cylinders' as opposed to a converted percussion cylinder, but measuring it should tell the story.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[CraigC]

As stated, the Richards conversion was only applied to the 1860. All others were Richards-Mason. I think what throws people about this is that the 1860 Richards-Mason used a new S-lug barrel, while the other models used the original percussion barrel. I've finally managed to snag an example of each type.

Most recent is a fantasy gun in the form of a Richards Type I conversion in .38Spl. An early Cimarron ASM gun that is an 1860/1861 hybrid. It's essentially an 1860 Type I but in .38Spl with a Navy grip.



Another fantasy gun, a pseudo-1861 Richards-Mason. Actually an 1860 Richards Type II in .38Spl, fitted with a Navy grip frame and Uberti pearls.



Cimarron's "Tuco Special", built on the Open Top cartridge frame in .45Colt with a Leech & Rigdon style barrel.



My pair of 1860 Richards-Mason conversions in .44Colt.



Whatever the hell this is. An ASM 1861 with a Legal Guardian gateless conversion and a non-functioning ejector. It's a paperweight.



My early Cimarron 1860 Richards Type II .44Colt has been cut to 5.5" and fitted with giraffe bone grips.



This is an 1851 Navy .38Spl conversion by Kenny Howell with a relined barrel.



Uberti 1851 Richards-Mason conversion .38Spl from Dixie Gun Works.



I've converted this aged Pietta with Kirst bits but it ain't ready for show business just yet.

 

[Jim Watson]

Whatever the hell this is. An ASM 1861 with a Legal Guardian gateless conversion and a non-functioning ejector. It's a paperweight.

I have the Legal Defender .38 S&W conversion on a Uberti 1851.
When even hollow base wadcutters would not take the C&B rifling, I got FLG to line the barrel to .358" and put on a blade front sight.

I saw one at a gun show that had been antiqued and fraudulently offered as original.

 

[hawg]

As stated, the Richards conversion was only applied to the 1860. All others were Richards-Mason. I think what throws people about this is that the 1860 Richards-Mason used a new S-lug barrel, while the other models used the original percussion barrel. I've finally managed to snag an example of each type.

Most recent is a fantasy gun in the form of a Richards Type I conversion in .38Spl. An early Cimarron ASM gun that is an 1860/1861 hybrid. It's essentially an 1860 Type I but in .38Spl with a Navy grip.

View attachment 1132555

Another fantasy gun, a pseudo-1861 Richards-Mason. Actually an 1860 Richards Type II in .38Spl, fitted with a Navy grip frame and Uberti pearls.

View attachment 1132556

Cimarron's "Tuco Special", built on the Open Top cartridge frame in .45Colt with a Leech & Rigdon style barrel.

View attachment 1132557

My pair of 1860 Richards-Mason conversions in .44Colt.

View attachment 1132558

Whatever the hell this is. An ASM 1861 with a Legal Guardian gateless conversion and a non-functioning ejector. It's a paperweight.

View attachment 1132559

My early Cimarron 1860 Richards Type II .44Colt has been cut to 5.5" and fitted with giraffe bone grips.

View attachment 1132560

This is an 1851 Navy .38Spl conversion by Kenny Howell with a relined barrel.

View attachment 1132561

Uberti 1851 Richards-Mason conversion .38Spl from Dixie Gun Works.

View attachment 1132562

I've converted this aged Pietta with Kirst bits but it ain't ready for show business just yet.

View attachment 1132563

I'm jealous.

 

[CraigC]

I decided to start another thread with all this and more in the revolver forum.

I have the Legal Defender .38 S&W conversion on a Uberti 1851.
When even hollow base wadcutters would not take the C&B rifling, I got FLG to line the barrel to .358" and put on a blade front sight.

I saw one at a gun show that had been antiqued and fraudulently offered as original.

Mine has really bad endshake. We're thinking they used the original percussion cylinder. I haven't tried hollow base wadcutters in it yet but I don't hold out much hope for it. Figured I was better off buying another gun than spending a bunch of money trying to fix it. Maybe if it were a Uberti but not an ASM.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

As stated, the Richards conversion was only applied to the 1860. All others were Richards-Mason. I think what throws people about this is that the 1860 Richards-Mason used a new S-lug barrel, while the other models used the original percussion barrel. I've finally managed to snag an example of each type.

Most recent is a fantasy gun in the form of a Richards Type I conversion in .38Spl. An early Cimarron ASM gun that is an 1860/1861 hybrid. It's essentially an 1860 Type I but in .38Spl with a Navy grip.

View attachment 1132555

Another fantasy gun, a pseudo-1861 Richards-Mason. Actually an 1860 Richards Type II in .38Spl, fitted with a Navy grip frame and Uberti pearls.

View attachment 1132556

Cimarron's "Tuco Special", built on the Open Top cartridge frame in .45Colt with a Leech & Rigdon style barrel.

View attachment 1132557

My pair of 1860 Richards-Mason conversions in .44Colt.

View attachment 1132558

Whatever the hell this is. An ASM 1861 with a Legal Guardian gateless conversion and a non-functioning ejector. It's a paperweight.

View attachment 1132559

My early Cimarron 1860 Richards Type II .44Colt has been cut to 5.5" and fitted with giraffe bone grips.

View attachment 1132560

This is an 1851 Navy .38Spl conversion by Kenny Howell with a relined barrel.

View attachment 1132561

Uberti 1851 Richards-Mason conversion .38Spl from Dixie Gun Works.

View attachment 1132562

I've converted this aged Pietta with Kirst bits but it ain't ready for show business just yet.

View attachment 1132563

Dang. How many snowmobiles did you sell to get all them pistols???!!!

 

[CraigC]

Dang. How many snowmobiles did you sell to get all them pistols???!!!

Trillions.

 

[hawg]

Dang. How many snowmobiles did you sell to get all them pistols???!!!

What's a snowmobile?

 

[Ugly Sauce]

What's a snowmobile?

What you ride in the winter when you can't ride your motorcycle. One was spotted in Mississippi in 1977 passing through on a trailer, being pulled by a pick up truck with Idaho license plates. But this was never confirmed.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

motorcycle.

Is that like, that mechanical horse? With wheels as legs and operated by the dead spirits of ancient war horses, that when revived they call out in a loud cry, which makes this machine accelerate to speeds only known by those who've seen the other side.

Craig C, all your examples there are beautiful. My favorite is that second one with the pearl grips. My second favorite is the early one, 1851 with square back trigger guard.
Been meaning to get hold of a .38 conversion cylinder myself.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Why is that one a paper weight? If I read this right it's due to too much end shake? That can be fixed at a reasonable cost. You make it sound like no ASMs are worth fixing, simply not true as they did make some decent quality stuff, I own a handful of ASMs and only one has questionable quality.

 

[hawg]

Older ASM's were decent guns. Late ones were poor quality.

 

[Jim Watson]

Mine has really bad endshake. We're thinking they used the original percussion cylinder. I haven't tried hollow base wadcutters in it yet but I don't hold out much hope for it. Figured I was better off buying another gun than spending a bunch of money trying to fix it. Maybe if it were a Uberti but not an ASM.

The Legal Defender was originally offered in the 1970s as a workaround for GCA68 and repressive state and local laws, not as a close reproduction of a period cartridge conversion.
A $40 cylinder and back plate, with drill bit and tap extension so you could reach past the arbor to put screw holes in the breech.
Chambered for .38 S&W for shorter OAL and no +P.
Put that in a mail-order .36 Navy repro and you have sort of a weapon.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

The Legal Defender was originally offered in the 1970s

Can you buy them at a bargain? Maybe ill find a .36 navy beater and try it out. Or not.

 

[woodnbow]

Can you buy them at a bargain? Maybe ill find a .36 navy beater and try it out. Or not.

I’d think they’d be pretty rare. Collectors items even. I don’t think they sold very well.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Here's the first Completely coil sprung Remington making it a true 19th century Ruger! Reminger?



I've been converting the action to coils for years now but for the "ultimate" in reliability, the main spring is now an option!!

Mike

 

[hawg]

Blasphemy!!! You're a talented man. No doubt about that but that's just wrong.

 

[CraigC]

Why is that one a paper weight? If I read this right it's due to too much end shake? That can be fixed at a reasonable cost. You make it sound like no ASMs are worth fixing, simply not true as they did make some decent quality stuff, I own a handful of ASMs and only one has questionable quality.

All due respect but nothing about that gun is easily fixed. I'm talking about a fraction of an inch, not thousandths. It's bad. As I said, there's no way to fix it without spending way more than the gun is worth, or will ever be worth. Quality has little to do with it. It's about parts availability and compatibility. After getting burned by Gary Barnes on a project that I'm $1500 deep into, I'm not throwing more money at this one.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

Here's the first Completely coil sprung Remington making it a true 19th century Ruger! Reminger?

View attachment 1132644

I've been converting the action to coils for years now but for the "ultimate" in reliability, the main spring is now an option!!

Mike

But the Ruger has Colt style grips - lets see you try to reproduce that.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

I gotta see more on that conversion! I think it would be an excellent choice on the big horse pistols!
By the way my bench is clear for the first time in 8 months!

 

[45 Dragoon]

But the Ruger has Colt style grips - lets see you try to reproduce that.

Well I don't change shapes, cut barrels or do sights . . . almost all my work is on the inside.

Blasphemy!!! You're a talented man. No doubt about that but that's just wrong.

Thanks Hawgie !!!!

Mike

 

[CraigC]

On the subject of coil springs, I'm going to say something that could easily be taken out of context.

If it feels good and lasts longer, that's all I care about.

 

[45 Dragoon]

On the subject of coil springs, I'm going to say something that could easily be taken out of context.

If it feels good and lasts longer, that's all I care about.

Here here !!!!

Mike

 

[Mizar]

But the Ruger has Colt style grips - lets see you try to reproduce that.

It's a conversion not that hard as some people think of, but not so easy as the others do think of it... It will require a little bit of welding and machining, but nothing to the extreme - it's a project I have considered for several years, just waiting for a donor gun to pop in and one that I'm willing to sacrifice. It's not a simple "cut & paste" job, but it's doable. It's just not giving you any real advantage, except for a (marginally) better grip and this is what's holding me off of it.

 

[woodnbow]

Here here !!!!

Mike

That’s what she said…