Ridiculous table at Gun Show

[SSN Vet]

I'm surprised that you could even read the sign.... he must have had a huge line of folks waiting to pay his fee.

Most peoples actions are really reactions to something that happened previously.

Just read a thread the other day where some blow hard was bragging about how he handles guns at the gun store, field strips them and then walks away with the gun in pieces on the counter if he doesn't like it or the dealer.

It's a free country.... we are all free to vote with our feet and walk on by.

 

[SwampWolf]

I think Hanzo581 said it best:

I don't really care how he conducts his business as it is my right to just pass on by. That being said, a simple sign stating "Do not handle firearms without permission" would suffice in most instances, I've seen it countless times, of course it's not 100% but it does help.

 

[XxWINxX94]

Do not handle firearms without permission

This would be fine, but in Illinois, you need permission to handle guns or ammo, and the presenting of the FOID card grants this permission, on ALL kinds of guns, whether it be an antique or the latest glock. So a sign of that nature would seem useless, however, folks do have them and they work quite well and there is almost no arguements pertaining to FOID cards at all.

 

[sportclay]

The 2nd Amendment also grants that right IMO.
I have place these signs on tables. That said, Like stop signs on a street corner, people are people and they don't read. When I do shows now most of the time they are display tables. I bring some double rifles or single shots that are interesting to look at and some are historically interesting but all are not for sale. They have small, signs that say, "Please, do not touch. For display only". There are also signs giving information on the make model, caliber/ga.,age, history, who the previous owner was, etc. people still want to touch. They still ask questions that could be answered by reading the label. And I still don't mind politely, asking them to not touch. And I happily answer the question as to when it was made or who the heck was the Duke of Connaught. When I starting going to gun shows in the late 50's, my father simply said , "look, but don't touch". Gun shows then were half display tables with historical collections and collectors of guns and related items persueing their hobbies. Times have changed.

 

[DammitBoy]

there is almost no arguements pertaining to FOID cards at all.

I'll have to disagree, the Bill of Rights I read presents a huge argument against FOID cards or any other kind of infringement.

 

[Blue Line]

does the 5 dollar charge allow you to touch the gun without the foid? Or is this guy checking everyone for a FOID? Do you have to present a FOID to get into the gun show?

 

[XxWINxX94]

I'll have to disagree, the Bill of Rights I read presents a huge argument against FOID cards or any other kind of infringement

I meant people at the show disobeying the FOID card law, most folks don't have any issues with having to present it. However you are correct the FOID cards are bogus and a complete slap in the face to residents of Illinois, I hope to move out of here as soon as I can.

 

[230RN]

How much to hold with one hand and look at with one eye shut?

$1.25


Maybe the charge was meant for his kids... so they don't touch the guns.

But seriously, I really find that ridiculous. The $5.00 charge won't prevent the "team play" walk-offs. Gee whiz, you don't need a super-secure cable system to make sure they don't float away. Plastic-coated wires and cables are available at any hardware store.

If I were in a nasty mood, I'd get his attention, point to his sign, and laugh out loud.

...Or, something else occured to me. Maybe, since it was a "family table," maybe he didn't want anyone but someone in his family to buy them, but they were still in the VW bus out in the parking lot.

(I can't believe you need some kind of firearms ID card to even handle a gun in IL. Just can't believe it.)

 

[CZguy]

About ten years ago I went to a gun show in Illinois, and bought a nice S&W model 3000 shotgun for $200.00. I was really surprised when they told me at the door as I was leaving that I had to have it in a gun case to walk to my car. I had to go back and buy a case. So the five dollar table fee doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[52grain]

About ten years ago I went to a gun show in Illinois, and bought a nice S&W model 3000 shotgun for $200.00. I was really surprised when they told me at the door as I was leaving that I had to have it in a gun case to walk to my car. I had to go back and buy a case. So the five dollar table fee doesn't surprise me at all.

Around here state law says that a long gun has to be broken down or in a case when being transported in a car. Not sure what the laws are on handguns but I suspect that they are similar. This could have been a state law.

 

[XxWINxX94]

Around here state law says that a long gun has to be broken down or in a case when being transported in a car. Not sure what the laws are on handguns but I suspect that they are similar. This could have been a state law.

Yup, gotta be cased in the not-so-fabulous Land of Lincoln. Even at gun shows they are starting to crack down on that. Guys used to walk around with they're long guns, but now 90% of them have cases/socks.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Is that really unreasonable in an area like Chicago

Murders per 100,000
(1) Washington, D.C., USA 69.3
(2) Philadelphia, USA 27.4
(3) Dallas, USA 24.8
(4) Los Angeles, USA 22.8
(5) Chicago, USA 20.5
(6) Phoenix, USA 19.1
(7) Moscow, Russia 18.1
(8) Houston, USA 18.0
(9) New York City, USA 16.8
(10) Helsinki, Finland 12.5
(11) Lisbon, Portugal 9.7
(12) San Diego, USA 8.0
(13) Amsterdam, Netherlands 7.7
(14) Belfast, N.Ireland, UK 4.4
(15) Geneva, Switzerland 4.2
(16) Copenhagen, Denmark 4.0
(17) Berlin, Germany 3.8
(18) Paris, France 3.3
(19) Stockholm, Sweden 3.0
(20) Prague, Czechoslovakia 2.9


http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html

Yup, gotta be cased in the not-so-fabulous Land of Lincoln. Even at gun shows they are starting to crack down on that. Guys used to walk around with they're long guns, but now 90% of them have cases/socks.

 

[stonecutter2]

Of course nobody even tries to understand where he's coming from. Have any of you been behind the table?

What usually happens is 95% are hummers and thumbers with no real desire to purchase. It's as if it was the mall and you get to mess with any of the merchandise as you please, and whether you take the time to put it back exactly as you found it doesn't even come to mind.

That's exactly how retail works. Have you ever been in a store on Black Friday? People grope at things all they like, take them and buy them, or just leave them wherever/whenever it pleases them.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, or fair, it just is what it is. People do indeed handle merchandise all of the time, and just because they didn't purchase doesn't mean they weren't considering a purchase.

 

[SwampWolf]

This would be fine, but in Illinois, you need permission to handle guns or ammo, and the presenting of the FOID card grants this permission, on ALL kinds of guns, whether it be an antique or the latest glock.

Are you kidding me? That someplace in America you have to get permission from the state before you can touch a gun or handle a bullet? I am absolutely shocked to the core of my liberty loving being. Our Founding Fathers must be spinning in their collective graves.

there is almost no arguements pertaining to FOID cards at all.

"We find these Truths to be Self-evident..."etc., etc., etc.

 

[gdcpony]

Around here state law says that a long gun has to be broken down or in a case when being transported in a car. Not sure what the laws are on handguns but I suspect that they are similar. This could have been a state law.

Yep, I got nabbed for that one as I came from MT to OH. Really, put a damper on the trip. $2,000 dollars in fees/fines for having a rifle out of a case. Oh, and no ammo in the car, just the .22 that I had got a bargain on in MT but forgot to get a case for. Oops. And a misdemeanor on my record to boot. The others were cased, so it wasn't like it was a habit.

Sorry for that. I hate IL and go around it now on my trips in case just transporting through is illegal without a FOID. No need for more trouble right.

 

[rooter]

Of course nobody even tries to understand where he's coming from. Have any of you been behind the table?

What usually happens is 95% are hummers and thumbers with no real desire to purchase. It's as if it was the mall and you get to mess with any of the merchandise as you please, and whether you take the time to put it back exactly as you found it doesn't even come to mind.

Add in the thieves who team play distracting the table vendor while the innocent looking sidekick walks off with a Colt SAA, Walther PPK, or Benchmade - which happened at the last local show. Not every small town exhibitor has cable locks to chain down his goods, the cost would blow any chance of profit.

It's a known characteristic of human juveniles to pick things up, and if extremely young, put them in their mouth. ADULTS don't need to handle a firearm because they have enough experience to know 1) if it's metal, it's cold and heavy 2) wooden parts smell like wood, 3) it belongs to somebody else, ASK.

Unfortunately, today's generation has to suffer with over 50 years of vendor experience at gunshows, which means Ryker mounts to hide all the pilferable stuff under glass, show cases, cable locks, and signs that are telling customers their behavior has gone from bad to worse.

Cash talks, BS walks, is another sign I've seen displayed prominently at shows since the '70s, if 21 year old+ undisciplined children unaccompanied by a responsible adult keep coming to shows, you'll see even more of it.

LOOK, DON'T TOUCH. IF YOU'RE REALLY INTERESTED, YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT. You just need to check condition and negotiate.

"Wow, that's cool, what the heck is that!" while dragging it off the table isn't a good thing. Does the car lot leave the keys in and the door open?

It's not all about you.

+1. The dealer is likely sick of his merchandise being fingered and receiving handling marks by tire kickers, dreamers, and those with too much time on their hands. It is a great way to weed out these people and identify serious buyers. If you are a serious buyer, you know what you want and the $5 will be credited toward your purchase. I would love to see all GS sellers implement this to encourage the dreamers to stay home and keep my aisleways less clogged.

Same with the guys who troll the classifieds here asking for pics, and wasting your time with questions when they have absolutely no intentions/means to purchase the item. If you ask a question, an I'll take it should follow once you receive a favorable response. Otherwise you are doing nothing but wasting the sellers time.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

And if you owned a 1911 purportedly worth more than $70,000, would you let just anyone handle it? I know I wouldn't. I had a similar gun shop acquaintance that let me handle their $60,000 Browning shotguns but he wouldn't do that with just anybody. That's the problem, gun shows are full of people from every walk of life, of every socio-economic status, varying levels of education, experience, knowledge and upbringing. It only takes one ignoramous to drop a $2000 Colt to ruin it for everybody. Maybe I'm getting cynical in my old age (36???) but there's a very good reason why USFA removes bolts and hands from their guns at trade shows. Even licensed dealers can't be counted on not to mishandle their guns.

You have a point, CraigC. Let me clarify: John's display is beautiful, each historic 1911 in a glass covered aluminum case with a printed history. This gun was not part of the display. He reached under one of the cases, into a close drawer, to hand the Singer pistol to someone he already knew was a firearms afficionado.

BTW, I also made a point to show Jared the one 1911 John will never part with: In 1967, in Vietnam, John (USN) was rescuing a wounded Marine Captain, when he three VC with AK47's rushed him. He drew that wet, muddy 1911 and fired three fast shots, resulting in three dead VC. He continued his rescue. That 1911 saved at least two Americans. John often says, "if you're going to a gunfight, bring a gun that works!" I wanted Jared to realize that true heroes don't always look like Hollywood movie stars. Sometimes they are just friendly gray-whiskered old guys who talk a little funny from a stroke a few years back and love to talk about their beloved 1911's or Garands...

 

[stonecutter2]

Are you kidding me? That someplace in America you have to get permission from the state before you can touch a gun or handle a bullet? I am absolutely shocked to the core of my liberty loving being. Our Founding Fathers must be spinning in their collective graves.



"We find these Truths to be Self-evident..."etc., etc., etc.

It's definitely true, I live in Illinois. You just by default show it to the guys at the table and they say ok. Most don't even really look at it, and in the rare occurences you forget to show em your FOID, they don't say a thing about it. It's sad, but it's true. The FOID thing is really annoying.

 

[stonecutter2]

+1. The dealer is likely sick of his merchandise being fingered and receiving handling marks by tire kickers, dreamers, and those with too much time on their hands. It is a great way to weed out these people and identify serious buyers. If you are a serious buyer, you know what you want and the $5 will be credited toward your purchase. I would love to see all GS sellers implement this to encourage the dreamers to stay home and keep my aisleways less clogged.

Same with the guys who troll the classifieds here asking for pics, and wasting your time with questions when they have absolutely no intentions/means to purchase the item. If you ask a question, an I'll take it should follow once you receive a favorable response. Otherwise you are doing nothing but wasting the sellers time.

I'm just saying, it sounds like you don't enjoy what you're doing - to clarify, selling guns at gun shows or in the classifieds. Gun shows are about selling guns, but also part of that is handling the gun to see if it's something you really want. Just because someone doesn't buy a gun they thought they might want after handling it, doesn't make them a dreamer, or a waste of time.

I could certainly understand getting bitter about the sales that don't happen. But I wouldn't be so eager to blame the customer for guns not selling, at least not based on some of the prices I've seen at gun shows.

 

[LibShooter]

I'll never understand why folks who don't want strangers handling their guns lay them out on a table in a big room full of strangers who just paid $10 to handle guns.

 

[XxWINxX94]

I'm just saying, it sounds like you don't enjoy what you're doing - to clarify, selling guns at gun shows or in the classifieds. Gun shows are about selling guns, but also part of that is handling the gun to see if it's something you really want. Just because someone doesn't buy a gun they thought they might want after handling it, doesn't make them a dreamer, or a waste of time.

+1
I think that if someone is remotley interested in handling a fiream intending to purchase it, they should be able to look at it for free. I agree its not all about the folks browsing the tables, but they are the ones buying the dealers products, and a $5 charge is kind of obsurd and a turn off. Most of the time I go to gun shows looking for bargains, and alot of the time there is none to be found, but I have fun while I'm there. Even if the guy has a bargain, and I want to get a better look at it I have to pay an extra $5? What if I change my mind or don't like someting about the gun that is revealed when picking it up/handleing it?
From a collector's perspective, you HAVE to look all around the gun because it could contain/lack something your looking for. Say if you aren't sure about a year of manufacture and the serial number isn't visable from the way the gun is on a table. Sure you could ask the guy for it, but your going to want to see the whole gun anyway if you are thinking about purchasing it. Maybe it has a scratch on the non-visable side, and the seller does not tell you it does. So you plan on buying the gun, until you pay the $5, and discover the scratch. Instant turn off and if the scratch is bad enough, alot of folks might walk away without $5. Again, some folks pay $5-10 just to get in the show itself, too.

 

[stonecutter2]

I've gone into gun shows, thinking I might buy a certain gun, get to one that looks like it's in the condition I want (or the table closest to the door with that gun new in box). Then I pick it up, and I'm like - it just doesn't feel right in my hands.

That leads me to be on the search for something else, since I already paid my entrance fee - so I might pick up other guns to see what I think of them. Any one of those could the one I decide to spend my money on, as at that point it's burning a hole in my pocket

Above all else, I try not to ABUSE the guns. That I could understand would not be cool from a seller perspective - some goof picks up a gun, scratches it up or whatever - not cool.

 

[Harley Quinn]

His table is one of probably a hundred You want to handle them go to another table

 

[JayBird]

I've gone into gun shows, thinking I might buy a certain gun, get to one that looks like it's in the condition I want (or the table closest to the door with that gun new in box). Then I pick it up, and I'm like - it just doesn't feel right in my hands.

Exactly. Sorry to those dealers that dont like people touching their goods, but I think you are in the wrong business then.

I may have done my research on a firearm, and think it maybe what I want, and I have the cash in hand, and am willing to purchase it. However, I may very well finally handle that particular model and then realize...you know, this is just too heavy, too light, not manufactured to what you expected, doesn't have a good sight alignment...etc etc.

I am not one to buy any old firearm sight unseen unless I have at least handled one before.

If a dealer doesn't like that...they really need to get out of retail.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I bet if you took a brand-new rifle (or any gun for that matter) and laid it on one of those tables for the two or three-day weekend, and allowed everyone who wants to pick it up, show it to their friends, etc, then put it down, by the end of the weekend there would be some kind of permanant mark, scratch, flaw, whatever on the stock and/or on the metal.

As others have stated, the guy most likely is sick and tired of having brand new guns that aren't quite brand new any more as, how can you tell a buyer this gun has never been fired when there is a scratch on it, or a line around the revolver cylinder!

Try telling the buyer that the marks are just from handlers.
Sure, I bet he would believe that one. My bet is the buyer would try to dicker to get the price down as the gun is not brand-new any more.

Same goes for cars that they let people drive. Yes, in the beginning, the car is brand-spanking-new with less than five miles. Lend it out to everyone and their family just to get sales and before you know it the car is not new any more as it has over a thousand miles on it!
Try selling THAT as a BRAND-NEW CAR!

LOL!