Rifle as Home Defense?

[Shawnee]

Hi P9...

My 2 cents ...

The defender should not go navigating through the house. They should have determined defense locations ahead of time that allow them to take a position and let the thug "navigate" through an unfamiliar house on his way to a getting a nasty surprise. It's fun to have the element of Surprise in the defender's favor.

With that caveat, a rifle would be Ok - but just Ok. It is still the easiest weapon for a thug to brush away, take away, or "get inside of". And it's "controls", and its' ammo, are more fumble-prone than a shotgun. And using it draws the shooter away from barriers more than a handgun does. But then, if all Ya have is a rifle, it's certainly better than a flyswatter.

I recall from several years ago a story about a fellow in Florida who used his head when he heard an intruder trying to pry a back door. The guy didn't wait; he intentionaly blew the window out of the door with (I believe) a couple shots from a .22 rifle. The would-be intruder decided to intrude the Heck Outtathere.
Cost the homeowner a window but it could have been a lot worse.
And he was smart to let the thug go and just call the cops. Catching a bad guy (or girl) and holding them at gunpoint until the cops can get there is taking on extremely dicey work - generally a poor course of action for Joe or Jill Homeowner.
My point is mostly that a person's best defense weapon is (or should be)between their ears. Home defense - TV/Hollywood style - is not for thinking Folks.

Local opinions may vary.

 

[RandyB]

Here is how my weapons line up.

Kimber 1911. If I have to travel to pick up my son in the house, I want a one handed weapon. If my son could walk on his own. The 870 would go first.

Remington 870. For sheltering in place.

Stag Arms AR-15. I am hard pressed to figure when I would use this weapon for when things go bump in the night. I <might> use it to arm the mrs. if I needed to do a reload or such. But that is really pressing the issue since I would have fired 8 rounds from a shotgun........ To me the AR figures in if I have a SHTF type situation. I have carried it in unfriendly handgun states for protection while visiting relatives, etc.

 

[P95loser]

The defender should not go navigating through the house. They should have determined defense locations ahead of time that allow them to take a position and let the thug "navigate" through an unfamiliar house on his way to a getting a nasty surprise. It's fun to have the element of Surprise in the defender's favor.

That is an accurate statement which I would agree with. However my house layout is not condusive for such a plan of defense. The wife and my bedroom is at one end, and the baby's room at the other (through the open dining, kitchen, and living room). If anyone here thinks for a second they are going to advise me to crouch behind my bed when there is an intruder stalking around the house with my baby unprotected... they are wrong.

I would consider a shorty 12 guage, however would need a way to lock it and hide it well as I have one of those keypad handgun drawer safes to keep children away.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

I love my Glocks, but what makes a Glock a better choice?

An M4gery holds more rounds, is capable of better accuracy, can be shot at a faster rate, and is far more effective...

I fail to see the advantage of the handgun. Handguns are a compromise. We carry them because they are easier to carry/conceal, not because they are more effective.

That said, you must use what you have trained with. I have trained with my AR's and Glocks, but the AR is the better weapon for the job.

 

[AZ_Rebel]

...my house layout is not condusive for such a plan of defense. The wife and my bedroom is at one end, and the baby's room at the other (through the open dining, kitchen, and living room). If anyone here thinks for a second they are going to advise me to crouch behind my bed when there is an intruder stalking around the house with my baby unprotected... they are wrong.

Too many people give little or no thought to security (HD) and personal safety when choosing a place to live. The advantages of remaining in one place and waiting when there are BG's in the house are legion... but if part of your family is isolated in another area that option may not be available. Moving about gives the huge advantage to the BG... and that can be disastrous to you and ALL members of your family! Perhaps you would be better off changing your sleeping arrangements (or your house) before you think about what firearm(s) you use for HD.

 

[ArmedBear]

With the AR15 carbine, your hands don't stick out as far and make the weapon easier to be grabbed or stolen by the attacker.

Sorry, but that's just plain silly.

If someone is close enough to grab your gun, you can hold the pistol right at your side and fire. It'll hit him at that range, just fine, without holding it out in front of you with both hands like you do when trying to shoot bullseyes slow-fire at 25 yards. If you don't think you can point-shoot a man-sized target at less than 2 yards, then practice!

Like I wrote in the far sillier "Mosin for home defense" thread, CQ defensive shooting is not target range shooting.

Do you really think it's harder for a BG to grab and divert a 3-foot-long carbine than a mid-sized pistol held close to the defender's side, without getting shot first?!?

That doesn't mean I think an AR carbine is a ridiculous choice for home defense (which I DO think about the Mosin). It offers a lot; that's why SWAT uses the things more and more. However, "grabability" is a reason for a lone defender NOT to choose it in close quarters; in the list of pros and cons, it's a con not a pro.

Some people even recommend against a 6" barrel revolver because it's easier to grab than a 4". A gun with a 16" barrel and a buttstock, even collapsed, is exactly HOW much harder to grab than a standard revolver?

 

[P95loser]

Perhaps you would be better off changing your sleeping arrangements (or your house) before you think about what firearm(s) you use for HD.

Alas, at this point in my life that is not an option. We own a house at the road with land behind it we are going to build on. We cannot financially build right now and we cannot move (my wife is next door to her parents and she won't be anywhere else). Frankly I like our location... a $1000 gun is a lot cheaper than a 190000 house.

 

[Gunner4h1r3]

first thing I'd grab is my mossberg 500.

that or one of my 1911's

 

[AZ_Rebel]

Obviously I am not familiar with you or your house... but these thoughts come to mind:

Alas, at this point in my life that is not an option ... a $1000 gun is a lot cheaper than a 190000 house.

Unfortunate! But a $1000 gun will not make up for a flawed security arrangement - you cannot "buy your way out". Consider that after a "bump" in the night you will be moving towards your "baby room" through your entire house.... an easy target for a BG waiting for you behind the sofa.

ALSO... if you have to shoot... you will be shooting towards your "baby room"?

 

[Cosmoline]

It is still the easiest weapon for a thug to brush away, take away, or "get inside of". And it's "controls", and its' ammo, are more fumble-prone than a shotgun. And using it draws the shooter away from barriers more than a handgun does.

I've grabbed a rifle, usually a Mosin, in the middle of the night more than once and have not had these experiences. I'm also not sure where you're getting the idea that a loaded rifle is easy for someone to "brush away." Someone must be spouting this nonsense to sell more handguns. If they plan on coming in and attacking me, assuming they somehow got close enough to grab the end of the M-91's barrel, all I'd have to do is blow them in half. And assuming I was out of ammo I could still jerk it back and slash their palm open with the sight, then thrust into their mid section and drop them like a sack of spuds. Even without the bayonet I can drive the barrel through a wall with a mild push. It's ten pounds of solid steel and hardwood! The rifle is actually DESIGNED to be lethal without ammo or a bayonet. A few blows from the barrel and even one from the buttend is enough to crack a skull clean apart. Try that with your Glock.

Besides, if something starts smashing around in the next room it's just possible it's Mr. Moose who was trying to get to the garden plants by the window or Mr. Bear who saw his reflection in the window and attacked it. These things have happened to other people in this town.

 

[Shawnee]

Hi P95...

I taught a Home Defense class for a long time and, without getting into a major lesson or speech, I'll pass along a basic premise that you may find worth considering.

In short - if a person's entire defense plan is their gun I think they have passed up at least 75% of what they can do to protect themselves.

Home Defense is made up of 4 main parts. In the order they should be pursued they are:

1. Deterrent - ie. outside lights, timed inside lights, fences, locks, neighborhood watch, etc.

2. Early detection/warning - ie. door/window alarms, a vocal dog etc. (and simply being observant).

3. Escape

4. Resistance - of which there are multiple means including firearm use.
I read of a lady who stopped a thug with a couple shots in the face from a can of that wasp spray that shoots 20 ft.

Just an FYI. HTH

 

[mljdeckard]

I'm not going to read through the other replies, but a few things to consider.

Pistols are NOT good defensive weapons. A pistol is what you use to fight your way back to the long gun you never should have put down in the first place. Statistically, most people hit with a single bullet from a pistol will RUN AWAY.

On the rare occasions when I have carried openly, and people have asked me why I have a pistol, I tell them it's because it's not practical to carry a rifle around everywhere.

Police agencies are bound by politically correct escallation and PR issues. Over time, they adapted policies of pretty much always using pistols. The public is less frightened that way. But they were reminded, in the 1998 North Hollywood shootout, that sidearms are backup.

When you have a long gun, you have the advantage of a bulky striking weapon. Something to push with, as well as the butt to strike with.

This isn't to say you MUST use the biggest long gun. My primary is a Remington 870 with a shorter tactical barrel. My backup is an M-1 Carbine. Both of these are perfectly fine to use in tight spaces. And those who Use ARs for HD, of course have a variety of options to very the length of the rifle.

If the only gun I had was my 1911, I would use it. But it isn't.

 

[ronto]

Shotgun is primary...

Depending on my physical location in the house, if necessary I'd grab one of my closest 357 revolvers for backup while I'm on my way to get the 12ga pump.

 

[Ithaca37]

When held with arms extended, a pistol is not really any shorter than a 16" barreled rifle.

 

[Shawnee]

Hi P95...

Would like to offer something else (brief) that I think is really important for anyone considering any firearm for home defense.

Many of us have a mental image and expectation that an "intruder" will be some big, dirty, burly dude..... someone none of us would hesitate to pull the trigger on. Statistics say we are woefully behind the times.
Many house break-ins are by teens - and it isn't uncommon for the intruder to be a female.
If you switch on that light and suddenly see the intruder is your babysitter or your neighbor's daughter - are you really going to pull your trigger? Even if she is obviously strung out and armed - are you - really ? Will your wife? Or will she get shot while holding the gun she won't use?

There are a lot of reasons to give a lot of thought to the 4 elements of home defense.

HTH

 

[REOIV]

This image about sums up the rifle vs gun for home defense.


BTW I use a Saiga 12 with 11 rounds of 00 buck in it. Best of both worlds really.

 

[mljdeckard]

Shawnee- I know I could, I'm not sure if my wife could.

 

[benEzra]

I voted rifle, but that's assuming I'd have the time to access it. The 9mm would be at hand, the rifle further by two steps and a turn of the safe handle.

I don't intend to be navigating around my house at night if I think there's someone actually in here (my kids' rooms adjoin ours, so I can cover everything I need to from my bedroom door).

 

[ArmedBear]

REOIV, that's exactly what I was talking about.

Why in hell would you hold a pistol out like that, as if you were paper punching at 25 yards, when an attacker is grabbing distance from you?

That picture shows not that a pistol doesn't work in close quarters against an attacker; it shows that tactical training is no substitute for IQ, or at least shifting one's brain out of "Park".

 

[ReadyontheRight]

I am unlikely to "maneuver around the home" if I wake up and suspect something is amiss. I am likely to get everyone into one room, dial 911 and sit at the top of the stairs. Most likely with a shotgun, but maybe a rifle if I had an inkling that something might be up.

The floor makes a great backstop to avoid over-penetration. Kind of like sitting in a deer stand.

 

[Matt304]

In my personal opinion, the best choice of weapon to grab would be a short-barrel rifle, like a Steyr TMP or HK UMP, or even an MP5.

Short, accurate rifles in a pistol caliber.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

Short, accurate rifles in a pistol caliber.

Why pistol caliber? The .223 excels in HD.

 

[Commander Guineapig]

self-removed the long post.

two reasons: my thoughts came across as inflammatory, and there's no need for that. (this is The HIGH Road after all)

second: I wrote how I felt for my situation. Everyone else's situation may be different.
Probably better to clarify my own thoughts in private next time...

GP

 

[bwavec]

The sound of me working the action on a 12 gauge pump and yelling out a warning may be giving up my hand a bit early. But that sound is usually enough to get a bad guy moving for the door like nothing short of a police siren will.

I'll shoot someone without hesitation if it comes to that. But defusing a potentially deadly scenario is a better call....if you can get it.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Accuracy: just how far are you shooting anyway? Do you really have a 50 yard open area in your house that you need a rifle
to cover? 25 yards = 75 feet. I can hit a chest sized target at that range with my 9mm, and I am WAY out of practice.

During a Force-on-Force class I took, I watched two experienced IPSC shooters who were buddies go at it one-on-one with Simunitions Glocks. One of them was an IPSC Master class shooter. I don't recall how the other guy was classed. In a tiny plywood shoot house, they both ran their mags dry (10rd mags) at distances of less than 15yds without getting a solid hit.

Both of these guys not only practice regularly and can easily hit a torso target at 25yd with a pistol on the range, they also practice moving while shooting, multiple rounds on target and a host of other skills. They probably represent the top 10% of shooters in terms of training.

All day long I watched guys who I had seen shoot really well for years miss a lot and get splocked in the head. Sometimes I even got to watch it first person as it happened to me.

I live in an apartment. If you live in an apartment, a town-home, a duplex,or in a neighborhood, think of what a .223 round at XYZ fps is going to go thru.

Newsflash - any firearm capable of effectively stopping a threat is going to penetrate multiple interior walls with ease - Glocks, ARs, shotguns, etc. The key to not having to deal with that problem is smart ammunition selection and hitting your target instead of the wall.

And even though it's a Glock 19, I wouldn't want me hopped up
on adrenaline to smash me in the head with it, and I weigh 155 = scrawny.

Unload your Glock. Make sure it is unloaded by physically and visually checking the chamber. Now smack a heavy bag with it. Does the slide get pushed out of battery occasionally? Not only are longguns superior as striking weapons, they don't get pushed out of battery and can continue to be used as a firearm if necessary.

ANYONE who has seen ANY action movie can use a Glock. You pull the trigger, done.

When I can find a new shooter who is willing, I like to take them out to the range and have them do two shots on an IDPA target with a Glock 26, Remington 870, and AR15 while I time them. So far, the AR15 wins every time for time and good hits.

To me, there is nothing wrong about a Glock or any other handgun for home defense.

There is nothing wrong with using a handgun for home defense. If I could only afford one firearm, it would likely be a Glock pistol - just because the Glock can be with me when I need it and longguns cannot.

Having said that, if you DO have a choice between a pistol and a longgun, then choosing the pistol is foolish. The only reason I could see going with a pistol over a long gun is that I had a lot of good, formal training with the pistol and none with the long gun. The pistol is inferior in almost every way to a long gun. If you don't understand that or don't believe it, you really need to drag through some of the threads in the Rifle Forum Reading Library.