Rifle help needed

[cameramonkey]

I'm looking for some help to pick out a rifle. I'm mostly a handgun shooter, but have been wanting to enter the world rifle shooting for some time. I've been shooting some friends' rifles here and there and thought that I had decided on an AK variant of some sort. But now, I'm not so sure what I want. Maybe if I list what I'm looking for in a rifle, suggestions can be posted. I would really appreciate this because I've been racking my brain and overusing the search function here reading posts about rifles for the past week or so. I've hit the point of information overload....

Here's what I'd like to get out of a rifle:

1. Simple and reliable - Want it to work and do so reliably. Some AR-15 stories and reviews kinda turn me off.

2. Easy to clean and maintain - I don't want to have to be an armorer to fix it or maintain it. But good customer service and parts availabilty are always a plus. I also don't enjoy cleaning my guns. I'm pretty thorough and slow when I do it, so the easier the rifle is to clean and maintain, the better. My 1st AR-15 cleaning took me over 3 hours. Yeah, sad huh?

3. Uses an affordable caliber - I'm thinking .223 or 7.62x39 beacuse cheaper ammo means more practice ammo. Plus balistically, I think these 2 calibers look like they'll do the job. If it's a .223, I'd prefer one w/ a 1:9 twist for the heavier loads!

4. Can be use for Defense (SHTF) and food gathering - I like it to be versatile. I know that no rifle can do it all, but I know some rifles are better at versatility than others.

Some of the guns that have caught my eye through reading through past posts are the Arsenal, Inc. AK clones, the CZ 527 models, the Remington 700, the Robarm VEPR K models, and the ruger mini-14 (although the ruger I'm kinda iffy on). But my choices are not limited to these rifles. I am looking for suggestions. Please offer any and all. I really need some help. Thanks.

 

[jefnvk]

If you don't mind used, you want an SKS.

1) It was designed by the Russians. 'nuff said.
2) I can field strip mine in about 30 seconds.
3) Its 7,62x39
4) Absolutely. On par with the .30-30, IMHO. Good enough for close range deer. Don't see why it couldn't be used for defense.

You can get them anywhere from $80 and up. I bought mine for $180, pretty much brand new.

 

[dakotasin]

what i got out of your criteria was that you are in dire need of a bolt gun. remington 700, if i'm allowed to go that far. chamber for whatever makes ya happy...

 

[wasrjoe]

I am very happy with my AK. Which brand to get is a whole other thread. The SKS is also a good choice, and I firearm I also own and am happy with. I have ownership experience with ARs. However, they are extremely versatile, and the ergonomics are great. My friend's AR has not failed any of the times I have used it. It is also much more expensive than an AK.

I suppose all that I have to say is that an AK or SKS will fit the bill wonderfully if the ergonomics for those rifles suit you. Just the same, do not discount the AR just because of some reliability stories. It is a suitable - perhaps not perfect, perhaps not as reliable as it should be for that role, but suitable - system for our military, and I assume your rifle will not be put in combat conditions.

PS: As far as the Ruger goes, it is fine for what it is - reliable, 3 or so MOA medium cartridge carbine. However, I believe that better guns can be had for the cost, and that you can get the same quality rifle for less - an SKS or an AK.

 

[schromf]

I got to agree with Dakotasin, for your first rifle get a bolt, or maybe a good lever action. I would avoid getting an auto as my first. You were talking about the cost of ammo, autos eat ammo quicker, so watch your numbers. For instance if I sit down to shoot for the day with two bolt action rifles, unless it is a subcaliber rifle 100-120 rounds is a full days shooting, when I am target shooting 80 rounds is a big number, and big magnums your hard pressed to fire 50 rounds. In comparison I can go through 200 rounds quickly with a AR-15 or my SKS.

When you get into shooting intially pay attention to the cost of ammo, but don't make it your only criteria. What I mean by this Boxer primed 308 ammo is around $60.00 for 500, or the Aussie is around $35.00 for 160 rds. Compare that to Cheeta ammo for 7.62x39 which I use exclusivly because of better shot groups, these are 40 rounds @ $12 a box. A range session with my SKS is 2 boxes min and usually 4 boxes, its berdan primed so I don't reload it and save it. Pretty close to $35-50 every time I go shooting with the SKS. In contrast to the above 308 above I will shoot 50-60 rounds and have spent $18.00. I reload for my bolt action rifles so cost of ammo is reduced ( or increased on premium hunting and match ammo ) by my reloading.

You didn't talk rifle budget and that has some bearing on this all. Rifles fall into four basic categories: cheap-under $200 Medium $200-500, Premium $501-1000, and Expensive $1001 to the cost of a car and some houses. Figure out where you want to be on the scale.

I think a 308 is a good first choice of rifle ( lot of flavors ), but a case could be made for a .223, 30-30, 270, 30-06 if your a hunter. And the little CZ bolt action chambered in the 7.62x39 would be pretty easy to keep in ammo, and suitable for deer hunting at reasonable ranges.

Avoid the semi initially, look to it on your next rifle. I can personally attest that a case of 30 carbine and a M1, takes dicsipline to get two range sessions. An AR, SKS or AK would be the same.

A good entry rifle is a Russion Nagant in 7.62x54 or even a K31 Swiss (more expensive ammo) but a $200 outlay will get you the rifle and a case of ammo. I know it isn't off my above list of calibers, but you will be hard pressed to beat it dollars wise.

 

[rbernie]

SKS - bar none, the best bargain in a usable caliber in the rifle world. Put a TechSight on it and spend the $$ that you saved by NOT buying a more expensive bolt-action on practice ammo.

I'm not sure that I buy into the perspective that a semi-auto would be harder to learn to shoot because it'll encourage more shooting.

 

[schromf]

Rbernie,

A SKS is still more expensive than a Nagant or a K31, they won't need sights either (actually niether does the SKS initially).

No agrument presented on the shooting better stuff, my case is you just shoot a lot more ammo in the semi's, which is cost.

And no a SKS is not a bad choice. But I read food gathering and I think for that a bolt is more suitable. Further the .223 is not a very good choice with that in mind unless small game is all thats considered. Your 7.62x39 in the SKS is better but still far from ideal for big game hunting, although terrain and game type has a lot to do with this. It perfectly fine on whitetail class animals @ 100 yards, but a Elk and 300 yds it is a really rotten choice, and it would be way down on my list of rifles for an antelope hunt.

Maybe I read too much into the "food gathering" statement.

 

[cameramonkey]

Thanks so far for the advice. Does anyone have opinions on the guns that I have listed on the bottom of my 1st post?

 

[JamisJockey]

If you own any .357's you might consider a .357 lever gun.

 

[MrMurphy]

The Arsenal and VEPR are good all-around rifles, teh CZ is an excellent hunter as is the Remington. The Ruger is a boat anchor.

 

[wasrjoe]

The Arsenal AK is my pick.

 

[jefnvk]

My Remington 700 Classic has killed many deer. A fine gun, IMHO.

Maybe I read too much into the "food gathering" statement.

Just another thought, you probably don't. I read food gathering as hunting deer, less than 100 yards because that is what most of the hunting is around here. If you were in, say, the Dakotas, or somewhere where hundreds of yards shots are common, you would probably be right.

 

[Red Tornado]

I'm with Jefnvk in that my first thought was SKS. It seems to fit all of your criteria, as does the AK clones. The AKs don't fit me, so I'm biased toward the SKS. Otherwise, they have the same major features; chambering, semi-auto, rugged, reliable, reasonably accurate to 100 yds, SHTF proven in many wars, etc.

AKs are tough to beat if they feel right.

In spite of that, my first centerfire rifle was the Mosin-Nagent 91/30. They are all of the above except that they are bolt action, and usually a little more accurate. I was looking at it as a starter rifle (it's cheap, I can experiment, if I break it no biggie) but after gaining an appreciation for it (and watching Enemy at the Gates several times) I'll probably use it if I ever make it hog hunting.

My first case of 7.62x54R was about 8.5 cents per cartridge, which turned into 12.5 cents with shipping. Still a great, great deal for the power of the round. That's the czech silvertip, btw.

In actual response to your question; AKs, VEPRs, great. I don't have first hand knowledge about CZs, but I read enough to believe they're great.(If you can believe THR members. ) I'm a big fan of Remingtons and don't think you can go wrong with a 700. Ruger makes great .22s, but leave skip the mini-14/30.

You'll eventually want one of everything, so this is really just where to start.
RT

 

[halvey]

what i got out of your criteria was that you are in dire need of a bolt gun. remington 700, if i'm allowed to go that far. chamber for whatever makes ya happy...

I second that. I went through this same thing and got a 700 with nice scope.

Watch out though. Now that I got a rifle, I'm kind of bored with my handguns.

 

[Zeke Menuar]

A SKS is still more expensive than a Nagant or a K31, they won't need sights either (actually niether does the SKS initially).

Not by much. AIM is selling Yugo SKS's for $99 plus shipping. 91/30 Mosins are running from $70 on up depending on which version.

Mosins are a good choice. They usually come cosmo free and need a cursory cleaning before shooting. Yugo SKS's come free with 40 pounds of primordial gun ooze.

Nobody is mentioning a Lee-Enfield Ishapore 2A. They aren't easy to come by. If you can find one they are a great choice. Ishy 2A's have a slick smooth bolt-action, are pretty accurate(at least mine is) takes 308 ammo and holds 12 rounds. My 2A has replaced the Mosins has my go-to milsurp for the real world.

ZM

 

[DF357]

your description of your desired features describes an SKS - exactly.... and an AK just slightly less so.

I have both and I shoot the SKS far more than the AK. It feels more like a regular rifle than the AK.

 

[cameramonkey]

Hmmmm.... Looks like I'm starting to lean towards an SKS or a AK variant again (arsenal or vepr). Where would one go about finding an SKS in Maryland? What should I look for in a good one?