I bought, and have been using, the Lee Reloading Manual. I want to reload 30-06 (if I can find primers) for my bolt action rifle, but want make sure I understand what I am reading. Lee advocates for only neck resizing if the gun is bolt action (or single shot) and ammo will only be used in one gun. I know this is a contentious issue, and that a lot of people think you should full-length resize. Let’s assume that this is my experiment, and I am going to only neck resize, so no arguments against it. I have about 100 30-06 scrounged casings. If the casings fit in the chamber of my gun, easily, is there a need to full-length resize them, or can I just de-prime and neck resize them, load them, and “fire-form” them? I will probably start off with jacketed bullets, so it appears that there is no expansion of the mouth of the casing necessary (at least not like there is for pistol), right? I powder charge the casing, then set the bullet to the optimum depth for my gun. What I am reading, and might also be a contentious issue, is that when using a bolt action, I don’t need a crimp. The reason I am asking this is because I am getting my dad’s old reloading stuff (I think… my uncle was “borrowing” it, not using it, and when my dad passed, he gave it all to a friend, without asking me.) There were 30-06 dies with an old Herter’s press, etc. So… I am thinking I could get by with buying just the Lee Collet Neck sizing die, and see if full-length vs. neck sizing makes much difference in my gun. If I don’t get dad’s stuff, I could just buy the Lee kit with the collet neck resizing die and bullet seating die, with no crimping die. I am not hunting with these rounds, nor target shooting for accuracy. I am just going to plink and punch paper with reduced loads. If just neck resizing extends the life of the casings, and I can avoid lubing and full-length resizing, that would be appealing. But if the scrounged casings need to be full-length resized, and loads should be crimped, and I don’t get dad’s stuff, I would probably buy the Lee Ultimate Rifle Die Set.
Rifle Reloading Questions
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GeoDudeFlorida
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Your scrounged brass scenario is already invalidated by this requirement. You don't know what kind of action fired the brass so you can't be sure it was a bolt or SS. Yes, you can (and probably should) experiment with neck-sizing only. If for no other reason than to learn why this proscription exists. Odds are, you won't have any problems but also won't be making very good first-batch ammo for your rifle. The second batch will be better. Eventually, you will need to full-length size and trim to correct for stretching. Good luck.
Oh, and don't overlook the Lee "Classic" Whack-a-Mole kits. They're actually pretty good for low-volume loading.
Cemetery21
Member
IF you verify every round of fired brass will chamber before sizing, you could collet size the necks, trim if needed, load and shoot. Not a bad plan for first firing of range brass to get a better (fireformed) fit to your chamber. Probably best if you chamber check rounds after every firing. Back in my neck size days, brass became too tight to chamber after 2-3 firings and had to be full length sized. Find a way to measure shoulder set-back when you do full length sizing.
Also, in my opinion and experience, no need to crimp bolt gun bottleneck ammo and no need to flare necks for jacketed bullets. I suppose a bottleneck cartridge neck flare tool is made? Never considered loading lead.
Also, in my opinion and experience, no need to crimp bolt gun bottleneck ammo and no need to flare necks for jacketed bullets. I suppose a bottleneck cartridge neck flare tool is made? Never considered loading lead.
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CoalCrackerAl
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I always full length resize. No cambering issues that way. Even when you neck size. You will need to full length size every few firings.
SASS#23149
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Skeptic13
Member
I also always full length resize. You need to full length resize all of your brass at least once then shoot them in your gun before you start neck sizing it. That will insure that you are getting uniform brass for reloading in your gun.
I'm unpacking all what you said, OP.
1. You hope to get your dad's reloading equipment back from your uncle, who loaned it out. You will need a good press to resize rifle brass, and a hand press probably won't be fun to use.
2. Full length resizing does "work" the brass, which shortens its life. But your scrounged brass (in my opinion) should be full length resized at least the first time. Once you have used brass that is solely from your rifle, you can neck size on subsequent reloadings.
3. Crimping. Yes, that's a whole can of worms. Personally, I do a gentle Lee factory crimp on my rifle rounds as a last step. Most of the time.
1. You hope to get your dad's reloading equipment back from your uncle, who loaned it out. You will need a good press to resize rifle brass, and a hand press probably won't be fun to use.
2. Full length resizing does "work" the brass, which shortens its life. But your scrounged brass (in my opinion) should be full length resized at least the first time. Once you have used brass that is solely from your rifle, you can neck size on subsequent reloadings.
3. Crimping. Yes, that's a whole can of worms. Personally, I do a gentle Lee factory crimp on my rifle rounds as a last step. Most of the time.
Charlie98
Member
Lot of stuff going on here.
As someone mentioned, mystery meat brass should be FL resized... you have no idea what's going on with it. 'Reset to zero' is what I call it... size all of your cases full-length, trim them all... and then you can consider neck sizing brass that's been fired in YOUR rifle, going forward. As other's have mentioned... eventually, you WILL have to FL size your brass, reduced loads not withstanding. As you suggested, no... full length sizing will not be fun with a hand press, you will need the leverage of a bench-mounted press.
You mentioned 'plink and punch paper with reduced loads.' That's cool, but it opens another can 'o worms, possibly. You will need to pick a powder that you are able to reduce, and a powder/bullet combo that won't stick in the barrel. If you are serious about reduced loads, you may be better off with cast bullets, and a faster rifle powder like IMR4198, although picking something like H4895... a powder you may reduce from full charge per the distributor (Hodgdon,) and load full-power loads if you want... is another good idea, and particularly if you stay with jacketed bullets.
I don't see a reason to crimp unless you just have to... as long as you have reasonable neck tension.
GeoDudeFlorida
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I've done it. It's not too bad if you use a good case lube. I like Imperial Sizing Wax but which lube to use is a perpetual food-fight I'd prefer not to be involved with. I recommend doing a search of the H&R forum for threads on the subject of case lube and another on the subject of F/L vs. N/O sizing. IF you're curious or bored and need some entertainment.
I was thinking of H4895 or Trail Boss. Speer also has some reduced loads with IMR SR 4759 and Accurate 5744. BTW, one recipe calls for Accurate XMR 5744, and two call for Accurate 5744. Is there a difference? I’m not going to buy dies (or a press) until I can find large rifle primers and powder.
W.E.G.
Member
Large rifle primers and powder are available on the internet.
Prices are high. And likely to remain high for so long as you are interested in handloading.
Prices are high. And likely to remain high for so long as you are interested in handloading.
Hugger-4641
Member
If you don't know what it was fired in , you will definitely want to fl resize that 30-06 brass the first time ,as already mentioned.
You also need to know if it is boxer primed or berdan. If it is berdan, throw it away. If you don't know the difference, I'll post a pic for you.
There is no need to crimp for what you are planning.
Have you selected a bullet or powder yet?
You also need to know if it is boxer primed or berdan. If it is berdan, throw it away. If you don't know the difference, I'll post a pic for you.
There is no need to crimp for what you are planning.
Have you selected a bullet or powder yet?
Charlie98
Member
H4895 would be the best solution, particularly if you are shooting jacketed. Not a big fan of TrailBoss in necked cartridges. SR4759 is obsolete. XMR5744 is now AA5744, I think there was a manufacturing source change and it became simply AA5744. AA5744, IMR4198, and H4198 are roughly equivalent powders, I've used all 3 with good results, but I prefer IMR4198, and particularly with cast.
#1 Breaking down your post into several smaller paragraphs will make it a lot easier to read and follow.
I full length resize. And since you're going to be scrounging brass fired from different guns, and from different manufacturers it is even more important. If you were working with brass that has only been fired in YOUR gun then you can get by with neck sizing. Chances are good you'll also need to trim the brass to length too.
You'll get best results if all of the brass is from the same manufacturer, and if it has been fired the same number of times.
Right now you're just going to have to use what powder you can locate. H4350 or IMR4350 are my go-to 30-06 powder for bullet weights 150-180 gr. There may be better options if you go to heavier bullets or lighter, but 150-180 covers 95% of what is fired from 30-06. The good news is that there are several good 30-06 powders and you should be able to locate something suitable.
I full length resize. And since you're going to be scrounging brass fired from different guns, and from different manufacturers it is even more important. If you were working with brass that has only been fired in YOUR gun then you can get by with neck sizing. Chances are good you'll also need to trim the brass to length too.
You'll get best results if all of the brass is from the same manufacturer, and if it has been fired the same number of times.
Right now you're just going to have to use what powder you can locate. H4350 or IMR4350 are my go-to 30-06 powder for bullet weights 150-180 gr. There may be better options if you go to heavier bullets or lighter, but 150-180 covers 95% of what is fired from 30-06. The good news is that there are several good 30-06 powders and you should be able to locate something suitable.
I don’t know the difference, so would appreciate the pictures.
I’d like to buy less than 1000 primers, and locally, so I don’t have to pay hazmat fees.
I’ll take what I can get with respect to powder, but it has to be for reduced loads, e.g., 2000 fps max. I’ll buy one or the other when I can find them and buy the other when I can find it. Then I’ll buy the dies.
Speer Has loads with 150gr bullets and Accurate 5744 starting at 26gr and 1819 fps to max 28 gr and 2064fps. The Hodgdon H4895 reduced loads are in the 2500fps range, so I’d try that too. I just don’t know how likely finding one of those powders is.
What’s wrong with Trail Boss in necked cartridges?
Bullets don’t seem to be as big of a problem. I’ve thought about lead, but if I have to have gas checks, some jacketed bullets aren’t that much more. I’m not going to cast my own at this point in time.
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Hugger-4641
Member
On the left is a berdan primed 30-06, on the right is a normal (boxer) primed 30-06. Berdan primers are generally from Russian/European made ammo.
Hugger-4641
Member
According to Lyman 50th, you can use good old IMR 3031 at 42gr for with a 150gr jsp at 2450fps, or H-4831 at 55.gr for 2551. Should be able to find either of those and probably can reduce either 5% more without problems.
Hugger-4641
Member
You would be correct, Remington Peters. The one on right in the pic is a Federal.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
No shortage of real good advice. Here is my take on some of this.
Neck sizing only was likely more popular 20 plus years ago than today. I played with it but with neck sizing only, sooner or later you will, as mentioned, have to full length resize the cases so may as well start out that way. The argument that neck sizing only makes the brass less work hardened leading to longer brass life never played out for me.
Using the 30-06 Springfield cartridge as an example a full length sized cartridge will measure from case head to shoulder datum point right about 2.049". The minimum SAAMI dimension. When sizing your brass, especially from a mixed lot, you want uniformity. Folks with a single rifle should fire a piece of resized brass and all the pieces come out the same. Some shooters use case gauges like these and when resizing "bump" the case shoulder back about 0.002" back or some shooters simply adjust the die per manufacturers instructions and use a case gauge like this.
Like this to "bump" a shoulder back...
Like this for a simple Go/NoGo...
A case gauge while not necessary is certainly a nice to have. They come from a variety of manufacturers and designs.
The end result is you will need to full length resize anyway so may as well figure on full length resizing dies and learn how to use them.
Reduced loads in the 30-06 Springfield I like H4895. This is a read on the subject.
As to a press? If you don't get your dad's a RCBS Rockchucker or old Lee O press can likely be had inexpensive on the used market.
Bullet? Whatever works for you using the powder and load data you have. There is no shortage of powders and bullets suitable for loading 30-06. Primers? If you are anywhere near Cleveland, Ohio let me know and I'll give you a few hundred to get started.
Ron
Neck sizing only was likely more popular 20 plus years ago than today. I played with it but with neck sizing only, sooner or later you will, as mentioned, have to full length resize the cases so may as well start out that way. The argument that neck sizing only makes the brass less work hardened leading to longer brass life never played out for me.
Then by all means neck resize only.
Using the 30-06 Springfield cartridge as an example a full length sized cartridge will measure from case head to shoulder datum point right about 2.049". The minimum SAAMI dimension. When sizing your brass, especially from a mixed lot, you want uniformity. Folks with a single rifle should fire a piece of resized brass and all the pieces come out the same. Some shooters use case gauges like these and when resizing "bump" the case shoulder back about 0.002" back or some shooters simply adjust the die per manufacturers instructions and use a case gauge like this.
Like this to "bump" a shoulder back...
Like this for a simple Go/NoGo...
A case gauge while not necessary is certainly a nice to have. They come from a variety of manufacturers and designs.
The end result is you will need to full length resize anyway so may as well figure on full length resizing dies and learn how to use them.
Reduced loads in the 30-06 Springfield I like H4895. This is a read on the subject.
As to a press? If you don't get your dad's a RCBS Rockchucker or old Lee O press can likely be had inexpensive on the used market.
Bullet? Whatever works for you using the powder and load data you have. There is no shortage of powders and bullets suitable for loading 30-06. Primers? If you are anywhere near Cleveland, Ohio let me know and I'll give you a few hundred to get started.
Ron
Thanks for the information! I really like the info on H4895. I read that earlier, and that was what piqued my interest. I don’t hunt deer anymore, I’m 68 years old, had a small stroke a couple years ago, and I’m not pushing it by dragging a deer out of the woods. My rifle is kinda light. It is a Colt… Coltsman, Mauser action that my dad gave to me about 55 years ago. I think because of its weight, recoil with hunting loads is quite noticeable… not when hunting, but plinking with factory loads is more punishment than I feel like dealing with. That is why I’m interested in reduced loads. I can’t really part with it after having it for so long.No shortage of real good advice. Here is my take on some of this.
Neck sizing only was likely more popular 20 plus years ago than today. I played with it but with neck sizing only, sooner or later you will, as mentioned, have to full length resize the cases so may as well start out that way. The argument that neck sizing only makes the brass less work hardened leading to longer brass life never played out for me.
Then by all means neck resize only.
Using the 30-06 Springfield cartridge as an example a full length sized cartridge will measure from case head to shoulder datum point right about 2.049". The minimum SAAMI dimension. When sizing your brass, especially from a mixed lot, you want uniformity. Folks with a single rifle should fire a piece of resized brass and all the pieces come out the same. Some shooters use case gauges like these and when resizing "bump" the case shoulder back about 0.002" back or some shooters simply adjust the die per manufacturers instructions and use a case gauge like this.
Like this to "bump" a shoulder back...
View attachment 1057289
Like this for a simple Go/NoGo...
View attachment 1057290
A case gauge while not necessary is certainly a nice to have. They come from a variety of manufacturers and designs.
The end result is you will need to full length resize anyway so may as well figure on full length resizing dies and learn how to use them.
Reduced loads in the 30-06 Springfield I like H4895. This is a read on the subject.
As to a press? If you don't get your dad's a RCBS Rockchucker or old Lee O press can likely be had inexpensive on the used market.
Bullet? Whatever works for you using the powder and load data you have. There is no shortage of powders and bullets suitable for loading 30-06. Primers? If you are anywhere near Cleveland, Ohio let me know and I'll give you a few hundred to get started.
Ron
I’m tempted to wait until I can find H4895, the Accurate 5744, or the IMR 3031 from the recipe mentioned earlier. Thanks for the offer of primers, but I live near Madison, WI, so that would be a little bit of a trek. We have a Cabela’s about 5 miles away and I’m hoping they will get some inventory back in the store soon. I think they sell 100 packs of primers normally, if there is such a thing as normal these days. They had Large pistol primers the other day, so there is some hope.
Otherwise I’ll just have to buy a 1000, when I can find them locally.
Hugger-4641
Member
If you don't get that RCBS, you might luck up and get one on E-bay for reasonable price. I see JR2 snd JR3 going cheaper than Rock Chuckers and they work fine. You can also occasionally pick up Lee C frame presses for $50 to $75 . I got one just to keep a decapping die in out in my shop.
Charlie98
Member
That info helps a lot.
From a cheapo point of view, you can certainly use any 150grn'ish FMJ bullet if all you are doing is plinking and ventilating paper. I have a Savage bolt gun that really doesn't like 150's... so it's possible you may have to step up to a better and/or heavier bullet. One other option would be a lighter bullet... I load 110grn SST's for my M1a, the recoil is like shooting a .223.
I load both IMR4198 and IMR3031 with 170grn cast bullets in .308 for my Savage 99. Although mine are gas checked, they don't really need to be at the velocities I drive them at, but I like the cheap insurance. I do not cast, I buy them commercially, and the key to success with shooting cast in a rifle, even non-gas checked commercial bullets, is to make sure the bullet fits the bore. In the .308, 32grn IMR3031 gives me 2000fps, 28grn 1800fps. I would think in the .30-06, a slightly larger charge would do the same thing, compensating for the larger case.
If you have modern commercial brass made by one of big manufacturers, it's boxer primed brass. Biggest difference between boxer and Berdan is/are the flash holes... boxer has a single, centrally located flash hole, Berdan has 2 holes, and the brass actually has the anvil. If you look down into a case with a strong light... and you see 2 holes looking back up at you, that's Snake Eyes! Berdan priming. Easiest way to do it is try to decap a Berdan primed case with a standard decap die... you will likely break your decap pin. Don't ask me how I know.
I may have misspoke on that. I did a little research... Hodgdon actually provides load data... for jacketed bullets no less... for TrailBoss and bottleneck cartridges. It might work well for you, and particularly if you can find it, over H4895, but it's my understanding they (ADI) did not produce TrailBoss in 2021... so it's unlikely you will find it anytime soon.
JJFitch
Member
By full length resizing and trimming brass every time reloaded I feel I'm better controlling one more aspect of precise reloads.
Works for me.
Works for me.
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