Rifle 'silencers'

[Stand_Watie]

I saw the subject of silencers come up on another thread (regarding guns in other countries) where it was stated that silencers were perfectly legal in some countries. It had always been my impression that it was very difficult to actually silence any gun except for a .22

My question is, do 'silencers' for other weapons actually silence the weapon, or only muffle it? If so, how much do they muffle it? Do they make a 30.06 sound like a .22? Even quieter, or not as quiet? Do they affect the sights of the gun? Are they heavy enough to substantially affect the balance?

Idle curiosity. I think I would like being able to shoot without messing about with earmuffs if it were possible/legal.

 

[Balog]

"Silencer" is a term that holds as much meaning as "Saturday Night Special" or "Assault Weapon." It was designed to scare the sheeple into believing only criminals would want them. A better term is "suppressor." They are no different than the muffler of a car. Only on some of the .22's can anything resembling actual silence be achieved.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Suppressors work by channeling the gas created by the burning powder and forcing it to follow a structured path instead of expanding in all directions at once when the bullet exits the barrel. During the channeling, the powder gasses are slowed and cooled to the point where they don't make the noise that they otherwise would.

An auto muffler works on the same principle.

In the case of a rifle, however, controlling the powder gas is only part of the problem. If the bullet is going faster than the speed of sound, it creates a sonic boom which can be almost as loud as the muzzle blast itself.

For the utmost in suppressed fire, you need to have a bullet that's going below the speed of sound.

 

[Greybeard]

I'm sure other will follow shortly with more specific comments, but I believe the better word is "suppressor".

And by paying the right fees and jumping thru some hoops, they can be legally owned in this country. I've got a friend who has one on a scoped Marlin .45 Camp Carbine. Nice set-up.

With enough bulk and engineering, I understand they can reduce the vast majority of the noise from the burning/escaping gasses. But the other "noise" problem come from the projectile breaking the speed of sound. Not a problem with guns like the .45 mentioned above, but could be, obviously with something like a 30/06. Speaking of which, I think someone years ago did develop a special .30 cartridge/rifle by the name of "Whisper". I suspect a seach over at TFL would turn up more on it.

 

[DragonRider]

The one nice thing about the suppressor on a rifle is that it helps in masking the shooters location. The other benifit is no flash, which in the case of going into a drug lab or other potentially explosive situation.

John

 

[Kenneth Lew]

Idle curiosity. I think I would like being able to shoot without messing about with earmuffs if it were possible/legal.

That is very possible especially when shooting 147 gr. subsonic throught a suppressor. What part of east Texas are you from?

Kenneth Lew

 

[Travis McGee]

Top quality modern suppressors reduce the muzzle blast of .223 and .308 to about the sound of an air rifle. The "snap" of the sonic blast is still there, but that sound does not reveal the shooter's position, since it is a shock wave angling off from the passing slug. In fact, the sonic crack often confuses ear-witnesses to the shooter's probable position. This came up repeatedly in the DC sniper case. In cities, echos make this even more difficult.

 

[444]

As has been mentioned several times, the term silencer is pretty much only used on internet gun boards and in the movies.
People who acutally use them or own them refer to them as suppressors.
There is no suppressor that I am aware of that silences the weapon. I own two of them in .22 LR and it still makes a noise. In .22 LR the noise probably wouldn't be recognized as that of a gunshot, but it still is not silent.

 

[labgrade]

"I think someone years ago did develop a special .30 cartridge/rifle by the name of "Whisper". ... "

It's called the .300 Whisper, by JD Jones, SKS Industries.... & a very fine maker of other "hi-po" calibers for the Contender handgun series - highly recommended for a search into either being quiet, or making a bigger bang for the buck.

BTW, & AFAIK, he also did some other Whisper calibers - 6.5s, etc. .... could be wrong.

Interesting guy to talk to & you can. Do the search & give 'im a holler.

Almost dropped the truly big bucks to refit my HBAR with the supressed .300 Whisper upper. Same mags, everything, except the upper itself - & dies, etc. to reload ....

Quiet. Stunning enough in accuracy. 180-220 gr .30 cal BT "whisper quiet?" What's not to like?

 

[Majic]

Supression is a viable option in any caliber as long as you drop the bullet speed under the speed of sound. You have to adjust for the different flight path of the bullet and effective range also decreases. Going to the heaviest bullet for the caliber will help solve some of the problems.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Another noisemaker is the sound of the bolt movement on a semi or full auto. It can be a lot louder than people would think.

But taking one of these and using a .22LR conversion or dedicated .22LR upper makes a very quiet little shooting platform.

 

[Stand_Watie]

Everybody, Thanks for all the great info. I think my dogs especially would appreciate if I either started using a suppressor or put earmuffs on them They get all scaredy-cat when I start shooting.


Kenneth. I'm in the Cedar Creek lake area.

 

[Idaho]

I have read that in some European countries they are required, or at least encouraged, for those shooting in areas that, being Europe, are inevitably near population centers.

 

[444]

The whole suppressor issue is an interesting one. Liberals try to make everything they disagree with as hard to do as possible. They are of course trying to ban guns outright, but so far haven't succeeded. So, you would think they would change tactics a little bit and try make it harder to own and shoot guns (I realize they are, but this is a different argument).
We have ranges that don't allow the use of steel core bullets, we have ranges that don't allow lead projectiles, we have ranges being closed down because of urban sprawl. You would think that the libs would try to stop shooting because it is too loud, and make everyone buy a suppressor if you want to be able to legally shoot.

 

[Billmanweh]

http://www.swrmfg.com/video/omega1.asp

 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

FYI, my list of suppressor links.

Unfortunately, this is not my most complete list and some links may be extinct. I blame a recent hard disk crash.


www.accuracyinternational.com
www.advanced-armament.com
www.american-manufacture.com
www.awcsystech.com
www.bisley-uk.com ( Great Britain )
www.brugger-thomet.ch/ ( Switzerland )
www.ccfa.com
www.compfxnet.com/opshop
www.dalphon.com/
www.gem-tech.com
www.gunworks.co.nz/ ( New Zealand )
www.johnsguns.com
www.jmbdistribution.com/
www.knightsarmament.com/
www.nait.com ( click on La France Specialties )
www.lakesideguns.com
www.lrmfirearms.com
www.paladinarmory.com
www.parabellumindustries.com
www.precisionweaponscorp.com
www.quicksilvermanufacturing.com
www.reflexsuppressors.co.uk/ ( Great Britain )
www.revelationarms.com/
www.rockcreekgun.com
www.saddleryandgunroom.co.uk ( Great Britain )
www.serbu.com
www.soundtechsilencers.com
www.srtarms.com
www.sskindustries.com
www.socommfg.com/
www.stwibs.com/index.html
www.subguns.com/products/cans
www.suppressor.co.nz ( New Zealand )
www.swrmfg.com
www.tacticalinc.com/
www.tac-ord.com
www.TripleBreakProducts.com
www.trosusa.com
www.valkyriearms.com/
www.vectorarms.com/indexframe.html

http://opsinc.us/


http://www.guns.connect.fi/


Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Another noisemaker is the sound of the bolt movement on a semi or full auto."

Yep. On some firearms that are specifically engineered for suppressed fire, or which have been converted, there are mechanisms to lock the slide or action to remove even that noise.

 

[El Tejon]

444, excellent point. I have been attempting to activate a movement to get suppressors moved to Title I (especially after the silly "background checks" for all of Title I) for years now (sigh, everyone needs a Lost Cause, El Tejon has many) based on health and public nuisance issues created by sprawl! Still think the notion has merit.

 

[DougCxx]

...As has been mentioned several times, the term silencer is pretty much only used on internet gun boards and in the movies.
People who acutally use them or own them refer to them as suppressors. ...

- Ummm, no. In the USA, the legal term is "firearm silencer", or "firearm muffler"--or just "silencer" for short:
http://www.titleii.com/Bardwell/nfa_faq.txt
-And there are slang names for them in most every country they are common anyway; UK airgunners all seem to call them "cans" for instance. I can't even pronounce what Norweigian shooters call them (see below).
----------
By the by, the site for Reflex Suppressors has some great cutaway views of their Maxim-style silencers, on all types of guns:
http://www.guns.connect.fi/rs/index.html
~

 

[El Tejon]

Doug, just because Congress picks up on a slang phrase (or trademark name) does not make it legitimate, sort like "assault weapons."

Congress can call a horse an orange. That does not make it correct.

 

[Telperion]

Yep, and a "silencer" is also a "firearm" even though it's just a fancy hollow tube. Hey El Tejon, count me in on your lost cause... now we just need a website to hawk our message.

 

[Brian Williams]

6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm, 30, 338 whisper

338, 375,500 whisper

 

[Archie]

One suggestion for the origin of the term "silencer"..

is that is the device on an automobile was called in the UK when Sir Hiram Maxim designed, built and sold the first such devices. Had it been invented in the US, it would be a muffler. (At least that's one theory.)

Not all silencers work on the step-down, cool the gas theory. I know of one mechanism that changes the report into a high pitch whine, too high for human ears. (It makes the local dogs go nuts, however....) There is no audible sound of report. There is still that super-sonic crack problem. The down side is the device only works on projectiles moving faster than about 2200 fps. The up side is it is just as effective on .50 BMG as it is on .223 Rem.

For handguns, reliable silencers can (depending on the design and care of manufacture) reduce the report to where the slide makes more noise than the report. In some cases, the brass hitting the floor makes more noise. This on a 45 ACP based on a 1911 frame.

The late Gordon Ingram (designer of the MAC 10 and other things) reportedly demonstrated the effectiveness of his silencers by shooting a MAC 10 out of motel room doors into the pool. Without disturbing the other guests. Possible urban legand, but I know too many knowledgeable people who believe it.

One other thought. Even removing the report of the shot fired, the sound of a bullet striking a wall is impressive. It's much like pounding with a hammer on the wall. A bullet striking a body is similar to dropping a watermelon on a hard floor from four or five feet.

 

[Schuey2002]

FYI, my list of suppressor links..

Hmmmm. I wonder who could have compiled such a list?

Oh, now I remember...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26231&highlight=Suppressor

 

[cpileri]

whistle

Archie-
Got a link or name for that 'sonic whistle' design you mentioned?
I have been thinking about a design that 'redirects sound' instead of 'silencing' it, and been drawing out some designs. If someone else has already come up with that, well i'd love to take a look!
C-