rifles from classic arms?

[rra_casper]

I stumbled on Classic Arms today (http://www.classicarms.us/index.html) and was impressed by what I saw. I've always been interested in old battle rifles like the Nagants (M44 and 91/30), K-31s and so forth that they have there. Unfortunately, the website seems to be under construction and I can't find out much about the whole operation. Skeptical person that I am, I just have to ask:

1) Can a normal civilian (no FFL or C&R) buy a gun from them? I assume I would have to go through a FFL, but will they sell to a peasant like myself? If the answer is no, then please disregard the rest of this monster post.

2) Has anyone had experience, good or bad, with these folks? Are they reputable and is their customer service any good? What is the ordering procedure? What payment do they accept (that is, if they would accept it from me in the first place)?

3) What about the products? Some of the rifles look pretty sweet, and some look like crap. Would, for example, a Turkish Mauser or Nagant such as they offer be worth a look? I realize that some of it is luck of the draw, and some can hand-pick, but can I expect any kind of accuracy or reliability from a gun that old? If you have horror or success stories, please let me hear them.

4) I like the K-31 a lot, from an historical standpoint and the coolness factor. Anyone have experiences with those?

5) Also, what the heck do they mean by a "dark bore." Sounds bad, probably has something to do with dirty or screwed-up rifling.

Thanks for any help and guidance you can provide.

 

[Number 6]

1.) Yes. You will need to go through an FFL or have a C&R.

2.) I have not had any experience with them, but they have a very good reputation from what I hear.

3.) Like any gun there are some lemons, but Mosins, Mausers and many of other military grade firearms have excellent reputations. Given the price of the firearm they are definitely worth a look. After briefly glancing at their prices, there are some good deals there.

4.) They are extremely well made and very accurate. Ammo is a tad expensive, and will be even more so when the surplus dries up.

5.) Others can probably explain this in more detail than I can, but what it comes down to is that the barrel has seen some use and has not been cleaned very well by its previous users. This does not necessarily mean that the barrel is shot out, but that it hasn't received that the TLC that it should of. Having a clean bore generally means that the rifle has been taken care of better, and has more potential to be a good shooter. I would be more concerned about pitting.

 

[atomchaser]

Bought a k-31 from them and I'm pleased with it. You'll have to have your ffl order from them if you don't a C&R.

 

[Bullet Bob]

What Number 6 said about a dark bore is true, but it also often means it has been fired with corrosive ammo and not cleaned well. They can still shoot, but maybe not.

K31's have never used corrosive ammo, so you shouldn't have that problem with them. They're terrible guns though, that's why I only have four of them

 

[sgphoto]

Classic Arms

In the past month, I've purchase three Saigas from them. Excellent service, extremely quick shipping, and absolutely great prices.

I would have no hesitation in ordering from them.

If you have any concerns, call them and tell them what you are looking for as I've found them to be very helpful.

I plan to order more from them this month.

Regards,

Steve

 

[Technosavant]

I have purchased from them in the past, and would do so again without hesitation.

The site is a bit hard to navigate, but it is worth it. It's an example of a good operation that could be made even better if they spent a bit more time on web design (many ISPs will provide the right software to use for free, and that makes it MUCH easier to design and update a site).

The K31 is a great rifle, I love mine. Ammo cost is a bit high, but choices are expanding- more and more places are making new production commercial ammo. If you get one, just be sure to pick up a 480rd case of the GP11 surplus at the same time, so you have plenty to shoot in the meantime.

If milsurps sound interesting to do, do yourself a favor and get a C&R license. You will pay for it by the time you buy two guns- most FFLs will charge $15-20 for a transfer, and the C&R is also good for discounts at various places. Do a site search on the license, and you'll find more information than you know what to do with.

 

[rra_casper]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I will definitely consider ordering a new toy from these guys, and their ammo seems pretty cheap as well.

As for a C&R, well, that's now right near the top of things to do when I turn 21. Bonus points to anyone who can guess what the rest of the list consists of.

 

[Car Knocker]

The Classic Arms site seems OK now. It's not the fanciest around but conveys what they are selling.

 

[rra_casper]

Ooh, two more questions:

1) What does it cost to ship a rifle (via CA's preferred method, whatever that may be)?

2) What payment methods do these guys take?

 

[Technosavant]

They take the major credit cards, and shipping will usually be less than $20. Rifles are oddly shaped things when put in a box.

They might take checks or money orders, but you'd have to call and ask. They tend to be friendly, so feel free to call them up.

 

[longhorngunman]

Classic is good people. And when they have messed up, the owner made sure to make it right! . +1 on the K31, awesome rifle at any price, especially around $100.

 

[JohnKSa]

I've bought from them on several occasions and recommended them to my friends. Nary a problem to date.

 

[rra_casper]

Wow, glowing praise of these guys. OK, one more set of questions, because I don't want to wait til tomorrow morning to call and find out: has anyone ordered ammo from classic arms? If so, what was shipping like, cost-wise? And perhaps most importantly, will they ship ammo to little old 20.8 year-old me? I was just hoping to pick up a hefty load of their bargain-priced stuff for whatever rifle I decide to get, be it Mauser, Nagant or, if I'm feeling saucy, a rockin'-cool K-31.

 

[grimjaw]

I've purchased three rifles from them and been very pleased. Wouldn't hesitate to do so again.

jmm

 

[rono]

I received my 91/30 from them on Friday. THey are great to deal with. Ordered the rifle on Wed and UPS dropped it off Friday. Why don't you get your C&R license? $30 for 3 years and you can pay for it with the money you save on your first purchase. I sent my paperwork to the ATF and had my license in about 2.5 weeks.

Ron

 

[rra_casper]

Why don't you get your C&R license?

Damn guv'ment with their "rules" and "age limits"...

Welp, I'll be on the happy side of that distinction in about 10 weeks.

 

[longhorngunman]

Getcha a K31 now, they ain't getting any cheaper, then wait until you get your C&R license. Remember to send copies to Graf's, Brownells, and Midway they will sell to you at dealer cost with the license. You got plenty of time for the Mosin's. Old Uncle Joe and comrades did indeed follow his famous quote "Quantity has a quality all it's own".

 

[rra_casper]

OK, let's see here. I think I need your help. Here is a detailed description of my situation. (Wow that ended up long...)
Not being 21, I can't buy ammo from any reputable online retailer, and the only place near me that sells volume ammo rarely stocks 7.62x54R. That lets the Mosin out of the equation. I am still left with the choice between the other two I was looking at. I was sold on the Mauser until I talked to a friend of mine (whose opinion I value very highly) and he couldn't stop raving about the glorious Swiss and their frickin' cool Karabiner. Thus, I throw my near future gun-buying fate on the capricious whim of THR. Pros and cons as I see them.

Yugo M24/47, $110 on classicarms:
Pros:
- Good condition, like-new bore (they say...but no handpick).
- Decent quality, I assume.
- I can afford to shoot the thing non-stop (700 rds for $80 at my local wholesaler).

Cons:
- Accuracy -- not up to par with something like the K-31, although good enough out to 200yds or so...experiences?
- Quality -- my friend told me that, if I was set on a Mauser, to wait on a Swedish or German one for better quality. Not seeing any of these around, and not wanting to bide my time too much, I see this as a drawback for the Yugo.
- Hard to guarantee low corrosion out of the box.
- Have to clean it chop-chop after shooting or else I'll open the case a week later to find a rifle-shaped pile of discolored dust...or that's what some people would have me believe.

Also, whether this is a pro or con I don't know, but I doubt the Mauser will be vanishing any time soon.

Schmidt-Rubin K-31, $130 on classicarms:
Pros:
- Other than what I am going to mention below, I have never heard anyone say anything bad about this gun. Anyone. At all. Ever. Except that it looks funny.
- Accurate as all get-out.
- Cool action.
- Unique gun with historical significance and maybe some cool stories.
- Can be easily scoped (in order to maximize accuracy potential) without modification...that is, when I get the money to do so.
- The Swiss never used potassium chlorate primers, so the worst thing I probably have to worry about is the infamous stock-beavers.

Cons:
- Oh dear Lord, the ammo is expensive. Lucky to find old-as-the-hills surplus for 3rds/$1, and that's in bulk. You must understand, as a non-hunter who owns a .22, a shorty 12 gauge and an AR-15 that loooves Wolf, this comes as a shock to my system.

As opposed to the Mauser, I have heard a few warnings to snatch up my share of the Swiss pie before the surplus dries up. Kind of lights a fire under me.

You guys have been great in this thread. Any advice, and reasons for that advice, would be very helpful. Right now my options are Yugo Mauser, K-31, or stick-it-out-until-you-turn-21-and-get-a-C&R.

 

[Rob1035]

I just wish they had a retail store, I live about 20 minutes from them, and have to wait for gun shows...


well actually maybe its a good thing, I can see myself going there weekly and buying crap

 

[longhorngunman]

Might want to check out www.aimsurplus.com as well. I bought a Yugo 24/47 from them and was very happy. Good wood, nearly 100% blueing and the bore was like a mirror, only mauser I have with this good a bore is my Persian. They also have K31's and the best deal on K31 ammo. Also have the new Wolf 7.5 swiss ammo and Soft Point hunting ammo as well( keep the Wolf brass, it is reloadable and you will want to reload for the K31 at some point). Since you would have to do a transfer, see if your FFL dealer needs to stock up on some ammo . BTW K31's while amazing can have some pretty rough stocks, especially the buttstocks, only downside to them.

Top: Yugo 24/47, Ishapore Enfield .308, 1943 K31, and bottom M95 Steyr "Budapest" carbine

 

[rra_casper]

Hmm, AIM is a little cheaper on the ammo than Outdoor Marksman. (Ooh, who likes living a half-hour from their west warehouse? Me, me!) But factor in shipping and I'd just as soon pick it up at the same time as my next case of .223...which no one will ship to me...because they're jerks.

The Mauser, I have decided, can probably wait a couple months til I build up the resources again. I think I have fallen in love.