Riot Defense

[GEM]

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/a-car-gun-for-riot-defense

A good article on the mythology of the last stand with the car gun as compared to avoidance or what actually to do. Greg is pretty expert and very well respected.

As a note, he recommends a small car fire extinguisher. Sadly, the idiots of CA and NY have banned them since they don't have a valve and studies have shown that people on fire have hurt themselves with these extinguishers. Sarcasm.

 

[Old Dog]

Probably the most thorough examination of the issue that I've read to date. An excellent article. As far as the reference to Michael Bane's work, those who haven't kept up with him should give his posts a read/pod-cast a listen.

Points out that even ending up in one of those areas when the stuff is going on is simply a lose-lose proposition. And it's not that I'm afraid to drive my big-a$$ pick-up truck (no bumper stickers or window decals, though) through downtown Seattle, it's simply a case of "tactical avoidance." As for Portland, I avoid that city like the plague as well, even though I've family there.

The guys I know that carry shotguns or carbines in their vehicles -- in anticipation of a possible confrontation with these groups--, as Greg points out, simply haven't thought things through.

 

[Choctaw]

"A mild form of terrorism."

I'm out.

 

[Hartkopf]

Many good points, the best is avoidance. It’s good to see experts spell out how these riots work, with scouts, radios, tactics that don’t involve shooting. They want YOU to shoot first so they can mow you down. But of course if you don’t shoot, you get beat almost to death. Avoidance is the only way to go.

On the down side, we have an expert telling us to let the mob rule. The mob has read this and is now even more emboldened. This new domestic terrorist group will have to be defeated at the point of its organization, not in the streets where normal every day people get their lives ruined.

 

[Aim1]

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

 

[TomJ]

"The only way to win in this situation is to avoid being there. Most protests are not spontaneous. The rioters want media coverage, so they announce their protest sites in advance. Pay attention to your local scene and avoid those areas, especially after dark. Doing that will be better protection than having a belt fed machine gun in your back seat. Stay away from this mess."

I know it's not always possible, but this is the best option. Our Chicago suburb was targeted last summer for rioting, but fortunately there was little damage done here. I sold my house and we're transitioning to rural Wisconsin, summers and weekends until my son finishes high school and permanently after that, to an area that so far has not been subject to this and hopefully will stay that way. Given how fast houses are selling there a lot of Illinois residents are doing the same. If you live in an area that's subject to this moving if possible is a good idea.

 

[Old Dog]

On the down side, we have an expert telling us to let the mob rule. The mob has read this and is now even more emboldened. This new domestic terrorist group will have to be defeated at the point of its organization, not in the streets where normal every day people get their lives ruined.

Gonna have to respectfully disagree here. The mob was already emboldened. The mob didn't need an expert telling us to let them rule; the city, county, state and congressional rulers had already given them the reins.

 

[Kleanbore]

....we have an expert telling us to let the mob rule

What do you mean by that?

He says stay out of trouble.

Do you need to have an expert tell you that?

Do you have a better idea?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

As distasteful as it is, you may be better off stuffing your go bag with a BLM jacket and a giant hammer and sickle face mask than an M4.

Pop a couple of pesticidic fogger bombs, don your "woke urban youth" pattern camo and try to blend in with the crowd until you get far enough away to throw the cursed rags in the trash and walk home.

 

[Hartkopf]

What do you mean by that?

He says stay out of trouble.

Do you need to have an expert tell you that?

Do you have a better idea?

Read the rest of my post. My thoughts are all spelled out. They will have to be defeated at the point of organization, not in the streets where average people get their lives ruined.

 

[Hartkopf]

Gonna have to respectfully disagree here. The mob was already emboldened. The mob didn't need an expert telling us to let them rule; the city, county, state and congressional rulers had already given them the reins.

I can’t argue with that. There’s no easy answers and nothing average Americans can do when the cities start burning again.

 

[1942bull]

I long ago adopted a simpler strategy to avoid being a victim of mob violence. If I see a crowd in the street I go a different way. Disparity of force is a nearly insurmountable dilemma unless you take drastic action. If you are outnumbered, you have little chance of success. If you do not want to be splattered with the stuff that hits the fan, stay away from the fan.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I didn't read the article but read the replies.

1. I think I'm perspective, there's the difference of practical vs ideological. Practically, it makes much more sense in the short term to avoid confrontation. Ideologically, it makes sense to stand against those who terrorize others. Just depends where on the spectrum a situation falls

2. I always thought those "bear bangers" would be a good riot defense. Might start a panic, but a flameless firework/flare that makes an insane "boom" might be a good way to allow a surrounded car to escape, as long as there was a way to fire it. Just thinking out loud

 

[GEM]

On the down side, we have an expert telling us to let the mob rule. The mob has read this and is now even more emboldened. This new domestic terrorist group will have to be defeated at the point of its organization, not in the streets where normal every day people get their lives ruined.

This comment is irrelevant to the article and an insult to Greg. If you know Greg and I assume you don't - it is easy to bloviate on the Internet about what he thinks.
Greg is a well respected national level self-defense and police instructor of many years reputation among the top folks. He is also very, very capable in firearms and physical techniques.

His emphasis in the piece is to get someone's dumb butt home alive. Not to make a statement about mob rule and letting it happen. I doubt the mob reads Greg and now is emboldened. We have enough mob rule in this country from various extremists elements of right wing, left wing and religious fanatics of various faiths. Their causes drive them not whether someone like Greg gives you hints about how to get out of trouble.

Folks who think they will step out of the car with a Shockwave on their hip to make a statement for their politics need a reality check and that's what Greg provided.

 

[Hartkopf]

Greg gave great info about how the rioters operate and how the DAs are more likely to go after the dumb butt getting beat by the mob than any one person in the mob. He says to avoid the riots at all cost, which mean to not counter protest. He confirmed what most of us already knew, do not confront or resist the rioters. Isn’t this all just facts? Do not do anything about the mob, because you can’t. You will lose. Let them rule. I just said it in a blunt way but it’s basically what Greg said.

Hopefully Greg will be ok with me condensing part of his article and making a blunt comment about it. I doubt he’s so thinned skinned to lose sleep over any of my comments.

 

[George P]

Gee, that truck has both a D and a R gear - pick the one that works best and either escape or run them over as you flee

 

[GEM]

I doubt Greg cares what you think about him, Hartkopt.

 

[upptick]

The author is approaching the problem from the perspective of a (former) law enforcement officer. I think that is limited thinking. What we've witnessed is the formation of an outright insurgency that is escalating its attacks on our institutions. This is not some garden variety civil unrest. It's a militarized guerrilla movement. As such, it will expand. The author's advice is to "just avoid the mob." What happens if the mob comes to you, comes to YOUR neighborhood? I live in an upscale part of California. Last summer there was looting just a few miles from million dollar plus neighborhoods where the people work hard and just mind their own business. When it became apparent last summer that the police were not going to protect the community, a few neighbors and I quickly established a mutual protection plan. That's what needs to be discussed at this point. Not just some candy ass crap about carrying a fire extinguisher in your car and trying to avoid trouble while you're out doing errands. It's already beyond that.

 

[Jeff White]

When it became apparent last summer that the police were not going to protect the community, a few neighbors and I quickly established a mutual protection plan. That's what needs to be discussed at this point.

We are not going to have that conversation anywhere at THR. We deal with individual action.

26 states have laws prohibiting paramilitary training, the USA Patriot Act has provisions about providing training to terrorists that are vague and don’t identify who terrorists are.

We simply aren’t going there at THR. I wouldn’t recommend discussing any group defensive TTPs in any online forum.

 

[Rexster]

Yes, indeed, a good article. Making a stand, on a battlefield of the enemy’s choosing, is not a recipe for success.

I happen to like my Remington TAC-14, with the Shockwave grip, but agree that it is not a best weapon for effecting a break-out from an urban ambush. It is a niche weapon, and anti-ANTIFA-ambush is not its niche.

I also strongly agree that one should avoid looking like the leftistas’ favorite targets. I do drive a Toyota Tundra, but it left the dealership looking somewhat like a contractor’s truck, and a closer look at my rack system indicates that I paddle a canoe or kayak, which are subtle clues that I might be an environmental-minded person. There are no indications of my political views stuck on the exterior. Physically, I look fair-skinned Germanic, which could work against me, but I take care that my clothing and hats/caps present a non-redneck appearance. Really, I did not need to change anything, when the social unrest started.

 

[Hartkopf]

I doubt Greg cares what you think about him, Hartkopt.

Exactly! But you rush to his defense as if I was going to ruin his career with my comments. Maybe you should put a disclaimer with articles you post on what comments will be allowed from THR members. No paraphrasing. Nothing too blunt. Speak softly as to not hurt feelings.

 

[Kleanbore]

There’s no easy answers and nothing average Americans can do when the cities start burning again.

The thread is about what not to do.

But you rush to his defense as if I was going to ruin his career with my comments.

That's ridiculous.

Maybe you should put a disclaimer with articles you post on what comments will be allowed from THR members.

For starters, post replies that are relevant to the discussion.

No paraphrasing. Nothing too blunt. Speak softly as to not hurt feelings.

Did that hurt?

 

[Hartkopf]

For starters, post replies that are relevant to the discussion.

I only posted about what Greg stated in his article. It covered considerably more than what not to do with a gun in your car.

Did that hurt?

Nothing hurts. Blunt and short doesn’t hurt me at all. That’s why I enjoy your input.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I think it’s a good article with sound advice.

I’ve tried to teach my boy of the danger of mob mentality, with part of it being; if you see a mob moving, go the other way!

tactical retreats to better locales can be pretty useful.
Live to fight another day!

 

[scaatylobo]

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/a-car-gun-for-riot-defense

A good article on the mythology of the last stand with the car gun as compared to avoidance or what actually to do. Greg is pretty expert and very well respected.

As a note, he recommends a small car fire extinguisher. Sadly, the idiots of CA and NY have banned them since they don't have a valve and studies have shown that people on fire have hurt themselves with these extinguishers. Sarcasm.

I see that the only sure way to survive that incident is = to NOT BE THERE.

Otherwise it would truly be a miracle to make it out of one of the described clusterfk's without extreme damage.

I see that bear spray and yes even the slightly larger but compact fire extinguisher is a great tool.

It is small enough and cheap enough to buy a few.

They absorb ALL oxygen so they make you back off to keep breathing.

It does not look like a weapon,and your use should be explained as "it was all that I had".

Not that it was a weapon of choice.

That cloud it creates might be all you need to get the puck out of dodge.

You know -------- that place you should NOT have been in the first place.

Unless it is truly worth risking your life on = do NOT GO !.