RKI on Michigan CCW/CCP...?

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

DualBerettas

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
180
Location
Texas
I live in Texas but am going up to MI with my wife for my sister in law's college graduation?

WHat/where (can i find) rules about MI CCW, I know my TX CHL is good there...but where can you carry and where can you not carry?

on the road?
in hotels?
at a college/university?
etc?

Thanks in advance,
DB
 
DualB's:

You have a CCW from Texas? and other states?

Check packing.org
they have a little engine to tell you in which state you can
carry based on your permits.

In general, mich is similar to texas:
no schools (including universities & dorms) or properties
no daycare facilities
no courts
no municipal buildings
no casinos, sports arena/stadium (amature and professional)
not in any entertainment facility which seats > 2,500 people
(even if the seats are not filled)
no hospitals
no churches (unless allowed by the persiding official)

and no where posted (i have yet to see a single place posted!)

now the tricky part is places that serve alcohol
"A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises"
there hasn't been the requisit precedents in the courts!

(Premises does not include parking areas of the above places )

doc
 
Just a couple of notes:

Carry is allowed in all non-court municipal buildings in Michigan. Absolutely, positively. If you find a locale saying otherwise, they're wrong.

Also, carry is illegal only in classrooms and dorms at colleges and universities.

The alcohol rule is a tricky one. The rule is 51% of revenues, although as a customer, you don't have access to their financial information..but basically, if it's a restaurant, you're ok. If it has "Joe's Bar and Grill" on the sign out front, it's best to avoid it.

The good news is that while we do have a 1001 stupid gun laws here (safety inspection/registration, for instance,) we do recognize your Texas permit and we have a good preemption laws, which means local munipicalities cannot set gun laws stricter than what the state has.
 
Barbara

while ccw may be technically permissible in a government building,
in Detroit, at least, concealed carry is not allowed
(metal detectors and instructions from those manning the machines!)

and as per Administrative Order 2001-1 of the Michigan Supreme Court of 3-29-01:
"Weapons are not permitted in any courtroom, office, or other space used for official court business or by judicial employees unless the chief judge or other person designated by the chief judge has given prior approval consistent with the court’s written policy."
this order extends beyond the physical courtroom.

so if someone went into a municipal building wherein there
are offices of the court, he/she would be in violation of the CCW law.
 
Ayep, I'm fairly familiar with the law on that. :)

Wayne County is in violation of state law when they disallow concealed carry in any municipal building other than those used for court business. You do not violate state law when you carry into a municipal building and it is impossible for you to violate a local ordinance in doing so, because that local ordinance in itself would be illegal. No locality in Michigan has any legal right to bar its citizens from carrying a concealed weapon on its property unless court business takes place in that building. Putting up metal detectors and making it difficult does not change the fact that you are well within your legal rights to carry into any Michigan municipal building.
 
One other thing I would mention, DB, is that if you are stopped by the police, you are required to immediately notify the officer if you have a concealed weapon. A stop has not been adequately defined, but any traffic stop is going to be a "need to tell" situation. The same applies to any passengers in the vehicle.
 
Hey Barbara. I have a question about entertainment complexes. What about a movie complex where there are several different viewing rooms for different movies? With each room seating 200, is the 2500 person limit the total building capacity or the room capacity ? In other words, am I legal to carry in a movie seating 200 people, but the total complex has 15 different movies under one roof, all seating 200?:confused:
 
TT, I could be wrong, but my understanding is that it is the total seating capacity. Most multiplexs that I have been in post the total seating capacity at the entrance.

DB, like Barbara said, carry is ok at universities as long as you are not in a dorm or classroom. Most universities forbid carry on the entire campus, but this only applies to students and employees. BTW, what law school is she graduating from?
 
Nope..the movie complexes are out.

Cobo Hall is questionable. According to all the experts I know (and I know some pretty bright legal folks,) its not a CEZ because it has no seating, but as it has the capacity to seat 2,500 its claimed as a no carry zone. No one has stepped forward willing to act as a test case, so it stands.

That's one of the issues we'd like to remedy, along with the problems with the prohibition on carry in hospitals. I had a chance to talk to a couple of past and present legislators today at the gun show today about the problems associated with that.

We've had a couple of situations where members had problems: One was pretty incapacitated due to kidney stones and while not unconscious, was pretty much out of it..because he was alone, his only option was to surrender his weapon to a security guard who locked it in his vehicle. He had the choice of two illegal actions and no legal choices at that point, except possibly not to be seen at the hospital.

The other situation involved a medical first responder who found himself at the door to the hospital with his carry gun. He ended up having to lock it in an ambulance..again, a bad move.
 
Barbara:

you used the "51%" rule for alcohol serving establishments
do we have case law or AG opinion to support?
what of the Applebee's type 'restaurant' with a booming bar?
i sure don't want to "volunteer" to be a test case :what:
 
No, not case law on that one, Doc. Public Act 719. Went into effect 7/1/2003. Updated PA318, the concealed carry bill.

Tenn: Yes..it does, sorry. You can't carry in a building that has the capacity to seat 2,500 people, even if those seats are in different rooms.
 
Last edited:
Just a note: I'm not an attorney, so don't take anything I say as legal advice. Always check for yourself.
 
Barbara:
i read and reread and reread the law, when we got 'shall issue'
but do not recall the verbage regarding establishments selling
alcohol. i do remember being confused. can you PM or email me the part
which makes it clear (maybe it's in the 2003 changes?)

thx,

FWIW, i had a friend describe the alcohol law in any setting where
the exact rule isn't quite clear to us as to lawmakers as follows:

'if you open the door and you see long necks flying back and forth,
and the music sounds like someone killing a cat, you probably don't
want to go in there wearing a gun

'if you enter a Luby's-like eatery and they serve liquor
then no one will know you are wearing a gun, that's
what concealed means, and if they find out, the fact
that you 'violated' part of the carry law will pale in
comparison to the aftermath of having used your weapon.

'but at least you get to enjoy the lawyer feeding frenzy,
because the only reason you took out your gun is 'cause
you were in imminent fear of death or grave bodily harm,
RIGHT?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

U
  • Locked
Getting citizenship in another state.
Replies
11
Views
955
ke6guj
K
B
  • Locked
Moving from Ohio to Michigan. Need help with CCW laws
Replies
10
Views
3K
USAF_Vet
U
3
  • Locked
Michigan "Tavern" Off-Limits Rule
Replies
22
Views
1K
GigaBuist
G
AethelstanAegen
  • Locked
VA CCW, valid in Ann Arbor, Michigan?
Replies
7
Views
652
Trebor
T
R
  • Locked
Michigan legal question
Replies
18
Views
708
Chuckulator
C
Back
Top