ROA and 209 primer

[AbitNutz]

I saw a couple of ROA cylinders that were converted to use 209 primers in Britain. They did it to get around the law. They use smokeless powder...no use for that but. Can't we hound someone here to make an ROA cylinder that uses 209 primers? I mean all the nipple and fitting problems would go away. Kirst makes a while cylinder, so does Classicballistx.


We're talking about a major improvement in reliability and availability of a primer that would work....

 

[arcticap]

What do you mean by "major improvement in reliability"?
Is there a reliability problem directly due to the percussion caps?
If a 209 cylinder were not intended for loading with smokeless powder then there's really no need to use a 209 primer.
An ROA cylinder adapted for using 209's may even result in it having a smaller chamber capacity for when loading black powder.

 

[AbitNutz]

I agree with what you said completely but....there is so much chat about what caps fit what nipples and the problems that causes. If we could get a cylinder that used standard 209 primers...don't you think that most of that would go away?

Not to mention we could use Blackhorn 209.

I have seen conversion plugs that take 209 primers for rifles. Wouldn't it be possible drill out the cylinder of a ROA, tap it for a modified version of one of those? They may be way too big, certainly they'd have to be shortened...


Anyway...I do believe, done right, it would eliminate a primer to nipple fit problems. I even have a spare cylinder I would be willing to donate to someone with the skills to try it....

 

[arcticap]

The Westlake Nitro Conversion cylinder has a backplate with firing pins much like a C&B cartridge conversion cylinder so that regular smokeless powder can be fired with 209 primers.

Photo:

http://westlakeengineering.com/mediac/400_0/media/P1010013.jpg

One of the only THR reports about how Blackhorn 209 fired out of a cartridge revolver indicated that it didn't produce much power. It has been shown that in a sidelock muzzle loading rifle it can be ignited by a small booster charge of conventional ML powder, and a company spokeperson said that it was safe to do so. Even though the manufacturer recommends it for loading in cartridges and provides loading data & velocity figures, it didn't work well for Oyeboten.

Pistol cartridge loading data for Blackhorn 209:

http://www.blackhorn209.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/b209blackpowdercartridgedata.pdf

I tried some Blackhorn for .38 Special and .45 Colt Revolver, and with all the Cartridge would hold it was still so anaemic I felt truly crestfallen.

Maybe it behaves better in Rifle length Barrels.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=552254&highlight=blackhorn+revolver

 

[Jaymo]

Seems like it would be perfect for 777. A slight reduction in powder capacity with BP wouldn't be a problem when using 777.

 

[AbitNutz]

I dunno. I may have changed my mind. I heard from Clements. He said he's done it, doesn't want to do another. He said it worked well but did take up a lot of powder space.

The main advantage that I thought it would have over standard BP primers was that using 209 primers...it always fit great and wouldn't blow itself all over the back of the cylinder. Which is true but it seems there's a lot you have to give up to get that.

 

[Lunie]

Seems like it would be perfect for 777. A slight reduction in powder capacity with BP wouldn't be a problem when using 777.

Is there a problem lighting 777 using standard caps? I managed to light it just fine, even wrapped in cigarette-paper cartridges, with CCI #10's. Pietta '60 Army.

 

[robhof]

777 is hard to efficiently light if tightly compressed, at least that's what I've read, personally I try to seat the bullet or ball just snug and have no problems. I've used it in my NAA companion, my Baby Dragoon and my ROA and all have fired fine. There's no warning of compressing too tightly on the can though.

 

[Jaymo]

Seems like it would be great with Blackhorn 209 or Trail Boss.