Road Rage Incident over the weekend

[bennadatto]

Moderators...I hope this is in the right place. If not, please relocate.

So my pregnant wife and I are driving to the in-laws for a Mother's Day dinner. There is a guy in the left turn lane, and I am in the right lane next to him. He starts to swerve into me and I honk at him. Not a rude, d-bag honk, just a "hey don't hit me" honk. So the guys lays on his horn and starts screaming in his car and flipping me the bird.

I ignore him and he gets behind me and then pulls in the lane to the right of me. I can tell this guy is a live wire so I keep ignoring him and hope he gets the message. We come to a light and I move to the left lane to put a buffer between our cars. He also moves to the left to stay next to me. When we stop at the light, the guy gets out of his car. He is screaming "I'm gonna F you up. I'm gonna kill you etc." I then move my car to the left turn lane with the hopes of diffusing the situation. He follows.

The light is still red, and there is no chance of running it due to heavy traffic. Let me also interject that I did not bring my gun with me, a mistake I will never repeat. So here I am in my car with my pregnant wife with some crazy guy closing in threatening to kill me. I have nowhere to go at this point, and I refuse to give this maniac the chance to get close enough to my wife or myself to make good on his threats. As he gets behind my car, I put the car in reverse and am just prepared to hit the accellerator when I glance up at the light which had just turned green. I throw the car in drive and punch it. As I do this, my wife is calling the police, and I give them a very detailed description of this idiot.

I learned 2 things from this:

1. When I am going somewhere where I can legally carry my gun (GA has weird gun restrictions) I will never leave it at home again. Ever.

2. You can mentally prepare for these types of situations all day long, but when it actually happens, your heart rate is jacked and your nerves are shot. I need to find some sort of "real-world" training to simulate adrenaline and nerves.

Also, this got me to thinking. Had I been stuck in traffic and had zero ability to flee the situation and been armed, what would I have done? And if it became necessary to use deadly force, when would have been the right time to present my firearm. As he gets to my window? After he breaks through my window? Before he gets to the door? I would think presenting a firearm too early may further escalate the situation, or force him to draw as well. Conversly, if I present too late, it may be too late altogether.

Please let me know your thoughts on my handling of the situation, and the extended variables I just listed. Thanks in advance for your thoughtful responses.

 

[tinygnat219]

First thing I wouldn't have done is honk the horn. It seems more and more of these instances are caused by something so simple. Second, you should have had your wife on the cell phone calling the police with a description of the vehicle and tag number. If nothing else, it gets the police on the lookout for idiots like this. Third, once he got out of the car, I would have driven off and to the nearest police station.

 

[Just Jim]

Yesterday in my area a young man was stabbed to death in a road rage incident. You are lucky to be alive.

Best that you know the laws of your state when it comes to self defense, any comment from outside your area means little.

Good luck on the new baby

jj

 

[TallPine]

First thing I wouldn't have done is honk the horn.

That's great - you just let somebody run into you?

 

[Claude Clay]

legal, unregulated and at your local super market: oven cleaner in a spray can.
been used by women in the inner-city's for years against those who get in their face. unlike pepper sprays, even hop-heads cant power through it.

 

[K3]

First thing I wouldn't have done is honk the horn. It seems more and more of these instances are caused by something so simple. Second, you should have had your wife on the cell phone calling the police with a description of the vehicle and tag number. If nothing else, it gets the police on the lookout for idiots like this. Third, once he got out of the car, I would have driven off and to the nearest police station.

Wait a minute now. There are appropriate times to use the horn. If somebody is about to swerve into you, it is a good tool to use to get their attention. Perhaps they're sleepy? Perhaps they're changing a CD and don't realize they're about to sideswipe someone? The OP sounds like he used the horn for THAT kind of situation. Should he have allowed the guy to sideswipe him because 'these days you just shouldn't use the horn'?

I think it's bad advice to lay out a blanket mandate to not use the horn.

 

[Mainsail]

So the guys lays on his horn and starts screaming in his car and flipping me the bird.

You were using your horn properly to avoid a collision, so don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. What I would have done differently is I would have been on the phone with the police at the point I quoted above, not later when you were trapped at the light. Calling the police is still free, so call them often.

 

[Just Jim]

Better to drive to the police station than to expect a cop to find you in moving traffic, if possible of course.

jj

 

[Professor Gun]

1) Remember that if things really go south that your vehicle is a highly effective weapon.
2) Carry wherever and whenever you can.
3) Cell phone, use it early and often.
4) Pepper spray (or oven cleaner spray? I have never heard of that. Anyone have first hand experience with it on a bad guy?).
5) Empty hand self defense training.

The best weapon is your brain.

Last resort should be the firearm or the vehicle.

We should not tolerate this behavior in our society.

 

[TX1911fan]

He already said he was blocked in by traffic and lights. I would have waited until he tried to break a window before I presented the weapon. It would have been out and concealed under my shirt or some other object, but it would have been in my hand and ready to use. If he tries to break a window, he gets shown the gun. If he continues, he gets a hole. I would not, under ANY circumstances, get out of the vehicle, unless there was no ohter option. The only reason for this would have been if he was trying to break your wife's window. I wouldn't shoot across her. I would get out and command him to stop. If he didn't I would assume my wife's life was in danger and take appropriate steps.

 

[possom813]

Pepper spray (or oven cleaner spray? I have never heard of that. Anyone have first hand experience with it on a bad guy?).

I haven't heard of oven cleaner as a self defense weapon. But I'm pretty sure that it's feasible. I used to use it to clean the rubber floormats and door panels in my old truck. It cut through the grease and grime and I had it blowback into my face a few times and it sent me into a coughing, hacking fit.

-John

 

[bennadatto]

Thanks everyone for the responses!

First, I used my horn for the exact purpose of its design. A car was coming my way and I honked to alert the driver. As I said in my post, it was a brief "you're about to hit me" honk not a "I'm mad so take this" honk. I'm not worried about that part of it.

And you're probably right about calling the police as soon as the guy seemed belligerant. The sad thing is that there are so many hot-heads who flip their IQ at the smallest issue, you get desensitized to it. You just never know who the "real" crazy is. Maybe that's the third lesson I've learned in this.

The funny thing too is that after I told the dispatcher where the guy was headed, I saw two police cars within 15 seconds of each other heading the opposite direction of where the guy was headed. Oh well...

Thanks again for the responses. Keep 'em coming. It seems these incidents are happening more and more frequently, and we can all learn from each other's collective wisdom.

 

[TX1911fan]

I don't think the cops would do anything with the report, but it creates a good "paper" trail if you had ended up using force against this guy.

 

[csmkersh]

Quote:
First thing I wouldn't have done is honk the horn.

That's great - you just let somebody run into you?

My thoughts exactly. The use of the horn was appropriate in this case.

Oven spray has been mentioned. Ammonia in a spray bottle or wasp spray can work too. Worse comes to worse, there's the 2 thousand pound double tap - front tire, rear tire.

​

 

[P95loser]

First thing I wouldn't have done is honk the horn.

So he should have let the guy just hit him? He said he had to honk to keep hom from coming over on him.

 

[RobMoore]

For future incidents, when avoidance is your best choice (which normally in these cases it is) try to keep your options open for continued movement. This means the outside lanes for right turns or into parking lots, u-turns, ect. Leave space between yourself and the car in front so you don't get boxed in, ect. Getting caught in your car with nowhere to go having to react to someone on foot approaching your window is a horrible place to be.

If you are front left at a red light with heavy traffic, nothing says you can't pull out a bit and make a right turn. Sure it’s illegal but it keeps you moving.

 

[Pax Jordana]

I hate road rage.
why just a few days ago this d-bag and his knocked up girly... naaaah.

But there is a stretch of US-1 I can't drive without feeling sick, so many times I've been in near misses, people flipping out.. I'll take back roads and an extra 10 minutes just to circumvent it.

As people who acknowledge the potential of justified violence, we must make sure violence is the very last option chosen. That means the gun, the brain, the car. Dad always said defensive driving means leaving the other guy enough space to make a jackass of himself - anymore, it's the only way I feel I can drive. That to me means not even pacing people in other lanes, and it's taken quite a bit to break my own aversion to hitting the brakes.

My brother and his wife just got in an accident when a fellow tried to go straight in a left-turn lane, they only traded paint but the guy raged on them and is now suing them for leaving the scene of an accident (he was courteous enough to tail them around the block a few times til the cops showed up, my brother was without his gun also).

Yeah, I've been that young driver, but your hands shake less when you don't cheat death every time you climb in the car. Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're at fault here at all, this is just what I've found works best for me.

 

[Deanimator]

Better to drive to the police station than to expect a cop to find you in moving traffic, if possible of course.

At least if you know where it is and that there's somebody there to do something.

The last time it REALLY looked like I was going to have to shoot somebody, it was O-Dark-Thirty on the interstate in rural Missouri, LONG before the days of affordable cellphones. The LAST thing on earth we wanted to do was get off on some back road that the guy hassling us knew but we didn't, and which might go nowhere, or to his house.

 

[brighamr]

Once, when I was very young, I was involved in a road rage incident. I know how it feels, and it's something that takes a while to get over. what I learned is this:

1) Always carry a weapon in your car. Knife, gun, spray, ax handle, jack handle, ANYTHING is better than nothing.
2) If you ever use your horn for alerting, or if you narrowly miss hitting another car on accident... keep alert. the crazies will come out of nowhere for the stupidest thing, the more aware you are the better prepared.
3) If guy(s) get out of another vehicle and approach yours, try to drive away, but know where you're going. In my young incident i drove into a dead end street which didn't help.
4) If all else fails and the BG is approaching your car and there's nowhere you can go, keep your doors locked and use whatever weapon you have. Don't hesitate. it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

 

[Harvster]

Lets put the kibosh on using things like oven cleaner. Pepper sprays and the like are designed and tested to be temporary. Spraying other chemicals on someone or in their eyes may cause permanent damage and is just a lawsuit begging to go to court. If you are cornered at home or elsewhere with no other weapons, then by all means use whatever is available, but, carrying some concoction around has bad juju written all over it.

 

[mike7465]

I find that using the horn freaks people out. I use it when ever I need to, but not unless I have too. I have found that people who are screw ups hate getting called on it, and will go into road rages over it. These rages can vary from screaming to trying to hit you with their car.
I think people have gotten to the point that they can't stand being corrected.
One last thing: A car is a 2k pound weapon.

 

[XDKingslayer]

Spraying other chemicals on someone or in their eyes may cause permanent damage and is just a lawsuit begging to go to court.

So is shooting them...And with a guy running up to your car and threatening to kill you why is one any different than the other?

 

[scottgun]

Its all about intended use...

I agree that the oven cleaner spray is a bad idea. We have permits to carry a gun, and defending ourselves against a deadly threat is the intended purpose. Unless someone attacks you while cleaning your oven, using over cleaner is just bad idea. Pepper spray is intended as a less than lethal defensive tool, so spraying that on an attacker is using it for its intended purpose.

Also mentioned, carrying an axe handle in your car. This is illegal in most places. Carrying a tire iron in the car isn't, however using for purposes other than chaning your tire usually is. Getting pulled over and having the officer see a bludgeoning weapon could be trouble.

 

[zxcvbob]

Just keep in mind that you need a weapon you can use effectively from inside your car against someone outside who is breaking in. That kind of rules out axe handle.

Your best weapon is the car itself. Next might be a large sharp knife. I think a gun is a poor third choice -- if you value your hearing at all. OTOH, you might not have to actually fire the gun... [I hadn't thought of that]

 

[Treo]

I think given the circumstances you mentioned you did well.


(the following asumes you are carrying)
I would be really hesitant to let some body get that close to my car, I had people get that close before & it seems that once they get that close you're kinda boxed in.

Given the guy has threatened to kill me & is moving in my direction I'd draw the line 10 feet around my car. he gets that close I present.