Road Rage

[jondwright]

Was reading another message board completely unrelated to guns, and this guy tell an interesting story...

My jaw hit the floor, My dad go into a fistfight...and won!

Some 17 year old punk cut my dad off, and then ended up alongside of him at the light. My dad looked over, the kid flipped him the bird. So pops flips it back to the kid. Punk, gets out and starts coming around the car.

My old man, gets out and say's "what's your...."

Whap! First punch thrown by 17yo punk.

My 57 year old dad (also ex-golden glove boxer), wearing his business suit, proceeds to give the kid two quick shots to the right side of his face.

The kids' carload of friends empties. But they only break the fight up. A cop, sitting at the light sees the whole thing. Saw punk take first swing. Saw my dad whoop his butt a little bit.

I warned my dad about the typical "what if he had a knife"

My dad, "I had a gun under the seat (legally)."

Too funny....

Gotta love old man strength.
________________________________________________________

Now most of us probably would have handled this differently, (left) but I have to give a lot of respect to this guy for knowing to leave his gun in the car recognizing this wasn't a life-threatening situation. I'm new to CCW, and am trying to condition myself to know WHEN it is appropriate to put my hand on my weapon. I've heard stories about guys roughing up a BG rather than drawing down on him, I don't think I could do it. All I could picture myself doing is keeping my distance, and telling the guy not to come toward me...

 

[WT]

"Never mess around with someone you don't know."

 

[JamisJockey]

Never get out of the car for a traffic altercation. Like he said, his dad did have a gun under the seat. This could have escalated quickly. Be wary, be cautious, and when in doubt, drive away.
both the dad and the 17 year old are losers in this one, nobody won that fight.

 

[rock jock]

My dad looked over, the kid flipped him the bird.

Stupid move, simply stupid.

 

[jondwright]

rockjock, do you mean the 17 yearold? Or the older man for flipping it back? Or of course, BOTH. Maybe the kid never gets out of the car if the older man doesn't flip the bird back.

Let me quote a subsequent post for the sake of discussion.

Well, they were at a light. I thought about that. I don't know that my dad could have done anything else. He could have locked his doors and stayed in the car when the kid jumped out. But, that's not my dad. He wouldn't do that.

I guess he could have tried to drive off, but this intersection is one of the busiest in my area.

 

[JamisJockey]

He could have locked his doors and stayed in the car when the kid jumped out. But, that's not my dad. He wouldn't do that.

Which is why his dad deserved to get knifed, shot, or peppersprayed, and is lucky that didn't happen. Fact is that his dad is a Macho moron for escalating the situation by
A) flipping the bird back
B) getting out of the car

This is why a cellphone is your most important piece of tactical equipment.
Call the Popo and report the road rage if young punk gets out of his car. Get over being flipped off. Get over being cut off.
The dad is just as guilty as the kid.

 

[MobileSuitPilotX]

I heard a story...

from a lady who works at an office next door to mine. I was outside smoking a cigarette on break when we started up a conversation. I don't know how the topic got around to guns (but somehow it always does, imagine that) and she told me of a road rage incident involving her father.

Basically it went a lot like the original poster's story...some lady cut him off and flips him the bird. He then RUNS THE LADY OFF THE ROAD AND SHOOTS OUT HER TIRE!!

I wanted to tell her how stupid and irresponsible it was, but this lady's cracked already if you ask me. No sense in starting trouble. You can't reason with idiots.

 

[JamisJockey]

him a REAL lesson, as in neck brace for the rest of his stupid life.

Sure thing, Ninja.

 

[8830]

The only mistake I see here is where old dad got out without his gun. He didn't know this guy or what he might have. As far as looking your doors and staying in your car I think you are waiting to be victimized. Get out and defend yourself that car can quickly become your coffin. I've only had to get out of my car on one incident that happened a couple of years ago while I was going home from work. The guy got stupid like this kid did and when I got out and shoved my P220 in his face his demeanor totally changed.

 

[Beren]

and have the same effect of FOREVER removing this stupid punk's ability to physically attack anybody else.

Yes, because crippling and disfiguring the punk for life is fully justified for a punch and a flipped middle finger.

 

[The Rabbi]

Never fight an old man. He knows all the tricks and has nothing to lose.

That said, Dad needs to get a life and grow up. Mixing it up with 17yr old kids at a traffic light is immature at best. Dangerous at worst. Dad was irresponsible. If he had shot the kid I would be inclined to convict him.

 

[Domino]

Screw the macho crap, if an angry man walks up to my car with a threatning tone he will likely have a gun pointed at him and if he continues his charade than I believe I would shoot to kill. That bieng said I would try not to escalate the situation by simply not responding to the antagonists rage. If I could drive away I surely would. But if I was cornered and I have no idea what the mans intentions are than I will defend myself with lethal force after giving him adequate understanding that this will be a serious decision on his part by brandishing my firearm. I am interested in hearing more opinions on this matter.

 

[The Rabbi]

Domino:

+1

 

[Zach S]

No matter how irresponsable the Dad was IMO, I still cant help wishing I was there to see it...

Never fight an old man. He knows all the tricks and has nothing to lose.

A buddy of mine used to say the same thing. He said he learned from experiance, but he never told the story.

 

[HighVelocity]

Those old guys can hit pretty hard. I bet that kid won't be doing that again.

 

[Island Beretta]

I really can't believe what I am reading from the posts here re: the old man's behaviour, what about what the kid did-he came out of his car and attacked the old man??? If the old man should have ran away, then the kid should have 2 times ran away..

What is wrong with standing your ground in the face of a threat? Retreat is sometimes the best option, but not always..

Listen, self-defense doesn't mean running away as a default because you can, it means taking the best decision at that point in time..which may or may not include running away..a punk coming up on my car at an intersection when I am on red I am getting out of that car where I have more options.. around the steering wheel I am a sitting duck..

By the way, Atc1man, in a fight on the street, there are no winners- only survivors!! A streetfight is always an unfortunate event..

 

[one45auto]

I don't have a problem with the father's actions. Road rage my rear end, that punk was asking for (and got) what he deserved. Too bad his father hadn't done that years ago, he might not have turned out to be a sphincter.

 

[Zach S]

I really can't believe what I am reading from the posts here re: the old man's behaviour

Well, this is THR, and returning the favor to someone that just gave you the finger isnt exactly taking THR, now is it?

 

[cracked butt]

The lesson the young punk learned that day might keep him out of prison in the future.

 

[rock jock]

I really can't believe what I am reading from the posts here re: the old man's behaviour, what about what the kid did-he came out of his car and attacked the old man??? If the old man should have ran away, then the kid should have 2 times ran away..

This isn't some schoolyard scuffle. This is an example of an escalating situation that could easily lead to someone getting seriously hurt or killed and someone else in custody facing manslaughter charges and loss of al worldly possessions. Most important, it could easily be avoided if one person or the other kept their ego in check and broke it off early on. Since this punk-*** kid isn't going to do that, it is the responsbility of the father as the (supposedly) more mature person to act like an adult.

 

[JamisJockey]

I really can't believe what I am reading from the posts here re: the old man's behaviour, what about what the kid did-he came out of his car and attacked the old man??? If the old man should have ran away, then the kid should have 2 times ran away..

I really can't believe what I am reading from the posts here! The adult (and I use the term loosley), escalated the situation by returning "the bird". Then, he escalated the situation further by getting out of the car. Grown Adults and productive members of society don't go looking for a fistfight. This isn't the schoolyard (thanks, RockJock, you nailed it). Not to mention the what ifs? What if this kid had a knife, gun, pepper spray or other weapon? He got the drop with the first punch, what if it were a razor blade? Dumb dumb dumb! And any of you that side with the grown adult are also dumb, dumb, dumb!
:banghead:

 

[Sir Aardvark]

An acquaintance of mine is a tiny female cop. She has plenty of stories where people are jackasses to her on the road and try to intimidate "the poor, helpless female" (she lives in L.A. - more jackasses per mile of highway than anywhere but Manhattan).
She purposely makes eye contact with them and then shows them her badge. She says without fail they have a 100% about face, even apologizing to her.
Goes to show that even the most moronic of childish idiots have some sense of self-preservation.

 

[cracked butt]

The only thing the old man did wrong was return the bird.

getting out of the car was not wrong other than in the sense of being 'tactically wrong.' Sometimes being right and 'taticool' isn't the same thing. The young punk approached his car in a hostile manner first. What is the man supposed to do, let the kid kick in the fenders of the man's car or throw a rock at his car before he could drive away fromt he stoplight? Would this action have made our society better or would it have reinforced the boy's punk bully attitude possibly encouraging him to even have a lighter hair trigger or become even more violent the next time someone 'disses' him?

The old man should have de-escalated by not returning the bird, there is no question about that. In a fit of anger he did return the bird and there was no going back. If the kid has no self control of himself that he has to start a fight with anyone who gives him the finger, he absolutely got what he deserved. I'm betting overall odds in favor of the kid not having a father at home, and this man taught him a little lesson about respect that he could not have learned at home.

 

[JamisJockey]

Cracked Butt:
Yes. Let him kick your car. Let him slash your tires. Better your car than your body! Call 911, and watch the local P.D. cuff and stuff the punk.

 

[wasrjoe]

Which is why his dad deserved to get knifed, shot, or peppersprayed, and is lucky that didn't happen.

The dad is just as guilty as the kid.

What in the world is this? What parellel universe have we slipped into? The man deserved to get shot? The man was stupid for endangering his own life. That's it. The kid deserved everything he got and more.