Rohrbaugh News 3/11/03

[denfoote]

12.3 oz!! OUCH!!!

If this is anything like the Ti/Sc .357mag/.38spl revolvers, then my guess is that it will be somewhat painful to shoot, especially with +P loads!! Have you shot one yet, Blackhawk???

This brings up the problem of "carried much, shot little"!!

Even my blued steel .357 snub is somewhat painfull to shoot!!

Small and thin is not going to make for a fun practice session!!!

Nice gun, but I think I'll just keep my "old technology" Kahr MK9!!!

 

[Blackhawk]

Have you shot one yet, Blackhawk???

Nope. I haven't even seen a production one yet!

The felt recoil is reportedly like shooting a PPK .380. I don't expect +P or +P+ loads are going to affect the recoil much. The short barrel is going to result in the "upload" powder being wasted as blast and flash instead of accelerating the bullet, IMO. Recoil is a direct effect of accelerating the bullet.

 

[denfoote]

I dunno. The force of the recoil is a function of the mass (weight, which is (mass)( the gravitational constant, g).

I'm just extrapolating from the known data, which involves the S&W Sc/Ti revolvers!! It is a well known fact of physics that the lighter the gun, the more felt recoil there is!! Even the great Massod Ayoob stated that the recoil of these revolvers was indeed painfull!! I expect this gun to be simular!! I might be wrong, but at this point, I think not!!

 

[Blackhawk]

Well, mass x acceleration, as in for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The recoil impulse is the reaction of the powder's burning pressurizing the space behind the bullet to accelerate it. The velocity loss in short barrels is due to the pressure dropping prematurely for the powder load as the bullet exits the muzzle.

Since powder has a fixed rate of combustion depending on the pressure developed, more powder in a short barrel simply cannot accelerate the bullet any better -- meaning that the barrel length will be the limiting factor of the recoil impulse.

I just reread the previous two paragraphs, and they may need to be taken out back and shot.

The bottom line is that recoil is a function of the acceleration of the bullet, and short barrels waste a lot of the powder's potential energy to speed up the bullet. Equal weight bullets are assumed in all of this.

 

[New_comer]

Compared to a full size gun, I'd imagine that bullet velocity in such a small gun could be reduced by 10-15%. Hence recoil, as a directly proportional function of bullet speed, would be lower by just as much.

But I have to agree with denfoote here. The smaller grip area will tend to increase the sting of every shot, as compared to full sized grip, whatever the reduced PF of the impulse would be.

Practice would be a chore, not fun at all...

 

[9x19]

denfootes comparisons still hold up as the ti and sc revo's he mentioned have a 2" barrel, even given the difference in measuring a revo' vs a pistol, that's still not much longer than the R9s 2.7"... doubtfully small enough to render the argument that perceived recoil will be signifcantly less. The different grip shape MAY make it less punishing, but... at $1000 MSRP, it better be comfortable to shoot.

I wonder if Kel-Tec's planning to introduce a single stack 9mm with a trigger action akin to the P-32 (and rumored P-3AT) at the (February) 2004 SHOT show?

Might take some of the wind out of Rohrbaugh's sails.

I hope it all works out for you Blackhawk, but I fear the price will need to drop significantly for them to survive past the first year... especially given the current state of the economy.

 

[grodaorhgih]

If Seecamp has been making mouseguns for thirty years, and they had a very hard time putting there .380 to market. I am not expecting much of this new company. (I will believe it when I see it)
Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Seecamp recommend changing your springs after every 150 rounds out of there .380? Does that extrapolate into new springs for every 50 rd. box of ammo from this 9mm mouse?

 

[Blackhawk]

9x19, firing a 12.3 ounce blowback pistol versus a same weight revolver using the same ammo and equivalent barrel lengths would be comparable in the recoil department. However, a Browning type tilting barrel locked breech pistol is a whole 'nuther ball game. The R-9 is that kind of critter, and that's why its recoil is supposedly comparable to a PPK .380.

The question spawning this thread facet was Denfoote's wondering how +P ammo would affect recoil in the R-9. I'm just speculating that it won't due to the short barrel not allowing the powder upload for +P to have any beneficial effect in accelerating the bullet. I think the muzzle velocity will be the same with the same ammo. We'll have to wait and see.

You said:

I hope it all works out for you Blackhawk, ....

Thanks, and likewise, but that sounds like you think I have a vested interest of some sort in Rohrbaugh. I don't. I'm hopelessly in favor, however, of any innovations in the field that promise to provide a product I can buy that tickles my fancy. A P-32 sized 9mm pocket pistol is something I definitely want to see!

 

[Blackhawk]

grodaorhgih, the big difference is that Seecamps are blowback designs. The R-9 is a locked breech design. Night and day....

I doubt if the R-9 will have to have its recoil springs replaced any more often than any other locked breech pistol.

 

[firestar]

That is much smaller than the PM9! I like the idea a lot but I can't fork over 1K for a pocket 9mm. I am struggling with the idea of paying $500+ for the PM9!

I love the idea and hope it is successful so that other makers follow suit and we have a wide choice of 9mm pocket guns to choose from.

 

[harrydog]

I don't have any more problem forking over $1,000 for a pocket gun than I do forking over that much or more for a full size 1911. It's the quality of design, materials, and construction that I'm willing to pay for.
The Rohrbaugh seems to have all three of those attributes.
I'm waiting for the all stainless steel version though, since I think the added weight can only make it a better shooter.

 

[duncan]

It's a nice idea but can that thing offer any real FPE?

With that weight, if they cannot deliver at least 400 FPE, at $1K a pop, they won't sell too many once the chronographs start showing their real data out of a 2" barrel.

And the lighter bullets game will not fly. People are not made out of clay so scrap the sub 40 grain 9mm rounds.

 

[Blackhawk]

Don't be silly, Duncan. Most 9mm loads can't deliver 400 FPE from a 4" barrel!