Hey I have been looking for a DMR that is under $1k and have decided on either the CETME, or the Romanian PSL. I am more inclined towards the PSL as the ammo for it is cheaper though it is slightly more expensive and the mags are not cheap either, but it is worth it to be able to shoot 440 rd spam cans for $100. My only problem is that no one has them in stock and J&G does not think they will be getting any more in the shop. The only place I can find these firearms is on gunbroker.com. Was wondering if anyone knows where these rifles have gone and if anymore will be imported?
Romanian PSL...?
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Buck Kramer
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Centerfiresystems http://centerfiresystems.com/DRA-GUN-B.aspx, they are century rifles, but I havn't heard many complaints about the quality if their psl's...
deadeye1122
Member
Classic firearms has them listed in stock. Although in the past an item I ordered was in stock and then was not available. Call first before ordering.
W L Johnson
Member
Depends, some of the Century PSL's are 100% Romanian with Century (or who ever) only putting an import mark on it. Mine is like that, it says Century in an import mark but that's all they did to it. Others are kit guns with US made receivers and barrels and I've seen those range from crap to as good as the 100% Romanian ones or even better.
I think the one's marked PSL-54C (note the C) are suppose to be 100% Romanian. Many of these also have matching numbers on the scope (if included) and should be already zeroed in, mine was. These may have largely dried up though.
Note: make sure to use light ball (around 150 or so) 7.62x54r ammo. The heavy ball stuff is suppose to beat up the receivers after a while.
And you can get replacement stocks if you want.
I think the one's marked PSL-54C (note the C) are suppose to be 100% Romanian. Many of these also have matching numbers on the scope (if included) and should be already zeroed in, mine was. These may have largely dried up though.
Note: make sure to use light ball (around 150 or so) 7.62x54r ammo. The heavy ball stuff is suppose to beat up the receivers after a while.
And you can get replacement stocks if you want.
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W L Johnson
Member
Too many variables for a blanket answer to that, you would have to compare based on one to one and a lot of it boils down to personal likes and dislikes. I for one find the PTR91 feels a lot heavier but is 7.62x51/308 vs 7.62x54r which greatly widens your ammo choices. Some people dislike the offset scope on the PSL.
I just want a good battle rifle something that will go bang everytime and can hit a man sized target at 600-800yds. There are things on both that I like....
CETME...
Cheap rifle
Mags are cheap
Lots of parts
Widely available
PSL
AK platform
Cheap Ammo
CETME...
Cheap rifle
Mags are cheap
Lots of parts
Widely available
PSL
AK platform
Cheap Ammo
From everything I've seen/heard, there aren't anymore PSL-54Cs (the entire rifle being built by Romarm) coming in from Romania. I hope that this is incorrect information. Classic arms has them, but their packaged deal is kind of annoying and seems like it's just a way for them to get rid of a bunch of extra crap that they are having trouble moving. The PSLs at centerfire and classicarms are US built. The side rails on centerfire's PSLs are too large and need fouled down to accept a standard mount. That is just ridiculous. If that is any indication of the builder's attention to detail, BEWARE!! Another thing that annoyed me regarding centerfire's PSLs is that they (centerfire) would not tell me who manufactured them. No matter how many times I asked, the guy kept telling me "These PSLs are the nicest we've seen since we started selling them." Both the classicarms and centerfire PSLs are built on parts kits that are claimed to be excellent. Currently, the PSL market is looking quite ominous in my opinion. My hope is that the VEPR 54Rs become more popular and more options open up with that particular platform. If that ends up being the case, I'll buy one in a heartbeat. Until then, I'll happily stick with Mosins.
All of that aside, I believe that the PSL beats out the Cetme, hands down... especially when you start looking at ammo prices. If I were you, I would start looking for a nice Romarm/Cugir PSL-54C. If you are patient, you'll find one at a reasonable price. Good luck.
All of that aside, I believe that the PSL beats out the Cetme, hands down... especially when you start looking at ammo prices. If I were you, I would start looking for a nice Romarm/Cugir PSL-54C. If you are patient, you'll find one at a reasonable price. Good luck.
W L Johnson
Member
Has anyone seen the 7.62x51/308 version of the PSL for sale anywhere for a not sky high price? I know they only made a few but the only ones I've seen for sale were on gun broker and the price was in the stratosphere.
henschman
Member
If that's what you want, just get a .308 Saiga with the long barrel.
W L Johnson
Member
Had, one and just sold it, liked my PSL better. The long barrel 308 Saiga was just too front heavy and just didn't feel right. Besides not a high priority right now as I already have AR-10s to fill that niche.
W L Johnson
Member
If it has AK stye stocks I doubt they're 54C's
Edit: just checked the site and they say
That's not the right scope though.
Another edit
That not a Romanian PSL-54 receiver, the rear cut is wrong, it's straight, the PSL receiver has a curved notch in it. You can see the notch in my photo above.
Edit: just checked the site and they say
and
I guess that means they're 100% Romanian as far as the metal goes.
That's not the right scope though.
Another edit
That not a Romanian PSL-54 receiver, the rear cut is wrong, it's straight, the PSL receiver has a curved notch in it. You can see the notch in my photo above.
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Quiet
Member
Another vote for the Saiga-308.
Get one, convert it to the traditional AK platform, add a scope and you'll get better accuracy from it than a PSL.
Get one, convert it to the traditional AK platform, add a scope and you'll get better accuracy from it than a PSL.
Ohio Gun Guy
Member
I have been wanting a PSL. I think as a DM rifle its excelent, but also would be a lot of fun just going to the range!
FWIW - my limited experience with PSL's leads me to think you'll be disappointed in the PSL's effectiveness as a "600-800 yard" rifle. Last year a buddy and I bought a PSL-54C each, from AIM, along with a case of Polish ammo (early 1950's vintage if I recall). The rifles had awful triggers and the groups were awful also. With new triggers, and after trying a variety of ammo (always light ball), off the bench my rifle will hold a 3" group at 100 yards with Czech light ball, my buddy's will hold a 2.5" group, same distance and ammo.
These are three shot group only with time between strings to allow for the barrel to cool. As the barrels on our rifles heat up they string shots vertically.
Both rifles function fine, are fun, and cheap to shoot but don't quite cut it in the accuracy department. I suspect there may be ways to tweak the rifles some, and if you handloaded some precise ammo, or could find (and afford) some Russian 7N1 ammo, I think group size could be shrunk - how much I don't know. Part of my disapointment with the rifles is, I realize, unrealistic expectations on my part, and to be fair others have reported getting excellent groups from their PSL's.
These are three shot group only with time between strings to allow for the barrel to cool. As the barrels on our rifles heat up they string shots vertically.
Both rifles function fine, are fun, and cheap to shoot but don't quite cut it in the accuracy department. I suspect there may be ways to tweak the rifles some, and if you handloaded some precise ammo, or could find (and afford) some Russian 7N1 ammo, I think group size could be shrunk - how much I don't know. Part of my disapointment with the rifles is, I realize, unrealistic expectations on my part, and to be fair others have reported getting excellent groups from their PSL's.
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jarhead85
Member
If you only w ant to choose between the 2, cetme or PSL. OK then.
I have had both. Still have the PSL and wont sell it. Knew I would never shoot the Cetme so sold it. I ahve a FAL I like much better.
But with the question on quality with the Cetme I would go with the PTR.
Abit more thana Cetme and a little more than the PSL.
Mags are cheap. Like 3 bucks each or less.
But the PSL is designed as a DMR type rifle.
Now with that said I prefer the FAL. Mags are a little more expensive but a very reliable platform. Gas adjustment and all.
Have had the Saiga and liked it but just wan't for me. Had a skeletal stock on it and side rail with it. But sold it as well.
Your choice. If you can get both try them, then decide. Just don't over pay.
I have had both. Still have the PSL and wont sell it. Knew I would never shoot the Cetme so sold it. I ahve a FAL I like much better.
But with the question on quality with the Cetme I would go with the PTR.
Abit more thana Cetme and a little more than the PSL.
Mags are cheap. Like 3 bucks each or less.
But the PSL is designed as a DMR type rifle.
Now with that said I prefer the FAL. Mags are a little more expensive but a very reliable platform. Gas adjustment and all.
Have had the Saiga and liked it but just wan't for me. Had a skeletal stock on it and side rail with it. But sold it as well.
Your choice. If you can get both try them, then decide. Just don't over pay.
Not sure if someone was saying the pic in post 5 wasn't a PSL....yes, it is. You can google most of the technical specs and range reports for what they're worth.
I've fired a few and think they're ok for what they are. My experience is that my 100 yard groups are just so - so, but I can usually manage 400 yard 3 shot groups that are within the spread of your hand. Surprisingly, the plain Wolf new commmercial ammo has fired better than 7n1 out to 400. I only tried it a few times, but that's been my experience.
The Tenn Guns versions are ok, they just assemble the kit on a new receiver in the US, as opposed to the Cugir PSL-54's that are imported in one piece. I've tried the original 4x optic, but find the 8x version to be a vast improvement at long range.
I've found that the original optic bdc doesn't correlate to the distance, best to have the version that has "click" only (like a conventional scope).
The two rifles don't really fill the same roles, so comparing a cetme to a psl doesn't really work out. The PSL will get a bit heated if you're going to run it like a battle rifle, the POI will shift...if you want a cheap hammer, grab a cheap rifle. If you want to fire some slow-fire at long range on a budget, the PSL will be ready to go out of the box. The cetme will require a scope mount and scope, maybe that expense will even the cost factor out.
I've fired a few and think they're ok for what they are. My experience is that my 100 yard groups are just so - so, but I can usually manage 400 yard 3 shot groups that are within the spread of your hand. Surprisingly, the plain Wolf new commmercial ammo has fired better than 7n1 out to 400. I only tried it a few times, but that's been my experience.
The Tenn Guns versions are ok, they just assemble the kit on a new receiver in the US, as opposed to the Cugir PSL-54's that are imported in one piece. I've tried the original 4x optic, but find the 8x version to be a vast improvement at long range.
I've found that the original optic bdc doesn't correlate to the distance, best to have the version that has "click" only (like a conventional scope).
The two rifles don't really fill the same roles, so comparing a cetme to a psl doesn't really work out. The PSL will get a bit heated if you're going to run it like a battle rifle, the POI will shift...if you want a cheap hammer, grab a cheap rifle. If you want to fire some slow-fire at long range on a budget, the PSL will be ready to go out of the box. The cetme will require a scope mount and scope, maybe that expense will even the cost factor out.
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W L Johnson
Member
I think you may have misunderstood what I was pointing out, the Classic Arms ad stated that it was, in their words, "TRUE ROMANIAN". When I noticed the receiver is a straight cut, not notched like a true Romanian one which clearly shows that their PSL is NOT 100% Romanian. Mine in the photo above is 100% Romanian, well except for the aftermarket stock I put on it.
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