Ron Paul taking Giuliani to the woodshed
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trueblue1776
Member
I'm impressed with this guy.
DomMega
Member
Ron Paul is an amazing candidate and already has my vote.
FerFAL
Member
Finally, someone who has the brains and guts to tell the truth, he also seems like a good man, something so rare these days. Please tell me if Ron Paul is pro 2A. Does he has any chance to win?
FerFAL
FerFAL
Yes he is very Pro 2A.
Can he win? The opera isn't over 'til the fat lady sings, but if I had to bet $100 on it, the news wouldn't be good.
And the people who ARE betting real money, at tradesports.com, agree with me.
https://www.intrade.com/aav2/tradin...elect=70288&updateList=true&showExpired=false
Can he win? The opera isn't over 'til the fat lady sings, but if I had to bet $100 on it, the news wouldn't be good.
And the people who ARE betting real money, at tradesports.com, agree with me.
https://www.intrade.com/aav2/tradin...elect=70288&updateList=true&showExpired=false
Maybe my TV is broken but I heard the man say that 9-11 was caused by us attacking Iraq. Said we had been bombing Iraq for ten years prior to 9-11[a lie] Under the terms of the 91 ceasefire, Saddam agreed that we could patrol an area known as the no fly zone. On several occasions Saddam's radar would lock onto our aircraft, and those radar sites would be taken out.For six years we have sought out a connection between Saddam and Osama, the man who planned 9-11, if there was one we have been unable to substantiate it.There were terror training camps in Iraq[google Salman Pak] that did train some men from Afghanistan, but all the paperwork was destroyed, so we were unable to confirm if any of the 19 highjackers had trained there.This photo shows the fuselage of a 707 used for terror training.
Mr Paul doesn't like our support of Israel, the only democracy in the middle east.Israel the country who will most likely do our dirty work in regards to Iran, just as they did in 1983 bombing Saddams nuclear reactor.He thinks we shouldn't interfere with Iran getting a nuclear weapon. Duh!Ron Paul is an isolationist who thinks we can stick our heads in the sand and not see the dangers lurking all around us.
Mr Paul doesn't like our support of Israel, the only democracy in the middle east.Israel the country who will most likely do our dirty work in regards to Iran, just as they did in 1983 bombing Saddams nuclear reactor.He thinks we shouldn't interfere with Iran getting a nuclear weapon. Duh!Ron Paul is an isolationist who thinks we can stick our heads in the sand and not see the dangers lurking all around us.Dr Paul's wording wasn't selected well. He didn't say that our involvement in the area was a absolute motivator for the terrorist attacks and plots, but rather a significant contributor.
He cleared that up with a post-debate interview. I doubt he meant to relieve blame from the killers themselves and put it on the United States.
I don't believe he is an absolute isolationist who would ignore a clear danger to the United States, and I don't disagree that policy reform would relieve national tension many years down the road. It's a bit rash to assume his critique of foreign policy, or his comments on not "poking" in others business is synonymous with a blatant disregard for internal security.
He cleared that up with a post-debate interview. I doubt he meant to relieve blame from the killers themselves and put it on the United States.
I don't believe he is an absolute isolationist who would ignore a clear danger to the United States, and I don't disagree that policy reform would relieve national tension many years down the road. It's a bit rash to assume his critique of foreign policy, or his comments on not "poking" in others business is synonymous with a blatant disregard for internal security.
Titan6
member
Laslarue- Your information is only partly correct. Saddam agreed to a defined no fly zone however the US expanded it unilaterally. This was never really resolved.
While no training link has been discovered linking Bin Laden to Iraq he indeed said that he was attacking the US over Iraq and our troops being stationed in SA.
While no training link has been discovered linking Bin Laden to Iraq he indeed said that he was attacking the US over Iraq and our troops being stationed in SA.
pcosmar
member
Lashlarue, I don't think it was your TV, you just were not listening, or you heard what you wanted to.
Ron Paul said that our involvement in that area of the world was the cause for attack. Our own CIA has said the same thing. The 9/11 commission said the same thing.
We attacked Iran in 1953, and set up a puppet government. The Shaw was hated and we were hated because we put him there.
We helped Saddam in his war with Iran, we provided weapons and intelegence information.
We trained warriors to fight Russia and then abandoned them.
We have parked our troops in their lands.
The sanctions we put on Iraq, caused the suffering of the people, but did nothing to Saddam.
They had 50+ years of reasons to hate us.
Ron Paul said that this is a bad policy.
I agree.
Ron Paul said that our involvement in that area of the world was the cause for attack. Our own CIA has said the same thing. The 9/11 commission said the same thing.
We attacked Iran in 1953, and set up a puppet government. The Shaw was hated and we were hated because we put him there.
We helped Saddam in his war with Iran, we provided weapons and intelegence information.
We trained warriors to fight Russia and then abandoned them.
We have parked our troops in their lands.
The sanctions we put on Iraq, caused the suffering of the people, but did nothing to Saddam.
They had 50+ years of reasons to hate us.
Ron Paul said that this is a bad policy.
I agree.
Lupinus
Member
Lash-
Not mucking with the rest of the worlds affairs is bad....why exactly? We aren't the worlds police and there is no reason for us to be. Back off, let the world sort out its own problems, and we will do the same. I see nothing wrong with good deplomacy and I doubt Paul does either. But we have been playing the worlds police for far to long and people around the worl, particuarly in areas where we have gone agianst them, resent us for it. That is what Paul was saying.
Not mucking with the rest of the worlds affairs is bad....why exactly? We aren't the worlds police and there is no reason for us to be. Back off, let the world sort out its own problems, and we will do the same. I see nothing wrong with good deplomacy and I doubt Paul does either. But we have been playing the worlds police for far to long and people around the worl, particuarly in areas where we have gone agianst them, resent us for it. That is what Paul was saying.
DBabsJr
Member
For the Ron Paul fans...
Ron Paul will be in studio on Bill Maher's Real Time, Friday, May 25th at 11:00 pm ET
Ron Paul will be in studio on Bill Maher's Real Time, Friday, May 25th at 11:00 pm ET
samtechlan
Member
Somedy has to state the obvious: the interests of the U.S. and Israel don't always coincide. Not when they attack our ships (the Liberty), not when they spy on us (Pollard) and not when the Israeli Lobby (AIPAC) puts the national interests of Israel ahead of the national interests of this country.
If the neo-cons love Israel so much they should seriously consider moving there permanently and contributing to that nation's defense directly. That is what folks like Golda Meir did after living for a time in the U.S.
On the Israeli lobby:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html
If the neo-cons love Israel so much they should seriously consider moving there permanently and contributing to that nation's defense directly. That is what folks like Golda Meir did after living for a time in the U.S.
On the Israeli lobby:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html
LawBot5000
Member
He is an abysmal public speaker.
His ideas are good, but we need a better messenger if we are going to convince people who aren't already true beleivers.
His ideas are good, but we need a better messenger if we are going to convince people who aren't already true beleivers.
samtechlan
Member
Lashlarue,
By the way Turkey is a democracy so Israel is hardly the only democracy in the Middle East.
By the way Turkey is a democracy so Israel is hardly the only democracy in the Middle East.
GTSteve03
Member
I always thought Lebanon was a democracy too.
ServiceSoon
Member
Funny, I don’t remember him saying that. I do remember Ron Paul saying he is a man who believes in taking the proper steps as outlined in the Constitution of the United States and allowing congress to vote on declarations of war (Except he didn’t talk in the third person). Your comment is a clear exaggeration to slander Ron Paul’s views. Please stop doing that.
Thank you for the notification. I will watch. You would think that Ron's campaign committee would notify subscribers about this. I'll drop them the suggestion.
Ratzinger_p38
Member
Yes, well on an off, from Ataturk to today the main interruptions have been when the military doesnt like a candidate.
Yes they are, with serious problems coming out of Israel and Syria. Kuwait, our tiny ally, is also moving in a good direction.
samtechlan
Member
Lebanon is only partly a democracy. While they do have fairly free elections the constitution allocates the presidency to a Christian, the prime minister's office to a Sunni Muslim and the Speaker of the parliament to a Shi'ite. This is not really democratic in the modern sense.
Ratzinger_p38
Member
Yes it is. There are other countries with 'quotas', IE a certain number of seats go to women. I dont agree with them in any case. But there is a delicate balance to be maintained in Lebanon, which has always been one of the bridges between the Christian and Muslim world.
A line constantly trumpeted by the pro-Israeli hardliners. Not entirely true, but it mainly comes from the mouths of people who believe all Muslims are our enemies.
samtechlan
Member
Quote:
By the way Turkey is a democracy so Israel is hardly the only democracy in the Middle East.
Yes, well on an off, from Ataturk to today the main interruptions have been when the military doesnt like a candidate.
Good point. Of course Israel's democracy doesn't really extend to its occupied territories either so it is also flawed.
By the way Turkey is a democracy so Israel is hardly the only democracy in the Middle East.
Yes, well on an off, from Ataturk to today the main interruptions have been when the military doesnt like a candidate.
Good point. Of course Israel's democracy doesn't really extend to its occupied territories either so it is also flawed.
samtechlan
Member
Quote:
"This is not really democratic in the modern sense.
Yes it is. There are other countries with 'quotas', IE a certain number of seats go to women. I dont agree with them in any case. But there is a delicate balance to be maintained in Lebanon, which has always been one of the bridges between the Christian and Muslim world."
No it isn't, not when the last census was taken decades ago when the Maronite Christians where the majority group. Everyone acknowledges that today the Muslims greatly outnumber the Maronites who have a much lower birthrate and often emigrate to countries like France and the U.S. This was partly the reason why the country was plunged into civil war in 1975.
Look I'm a great admirer of the Maronites and the way they've been able to maintain their religion and western culture in an area where they're vastly outnumbered and they've been able to do so since the times of the Crusades. (Little known historical fact: Maronites sided with Western Christians during the crusades while Orthodox Christians often favored the Moslem side.) If I were a citizen of Lebanon I would side with them as a bulwark against Moslem fundamentalism but the fact remains that a quota political system is at best democratically flawed.
"This is not really democratic in the modern sense.
Yes it is. There are other countries with 'quotas', IE a certain number of seats go to women. I dont agree with them in any case. But there is a delicate balance to be maintained in Lebanon, which has always been one of the bridges between the Christian and Muslim world."
No it isn't, not when the last census was taken decades ago when the Maronite Christians where the majority group. Everyone acknowledges that today the Muslims greatly outnumber the Maronites who have a much lower birthrate and often emigrate to countries like France and the U.S. This was partly the reason why the country was plunged into civil war in 1975.
Look I'm a great admirer of the Maronites and the way they've been able to maintain their religion and western culture in an area where they're vastly outnumbered and they've been able to do so since the times of the Crusades. (Little known historical fact: Maronites sided with Western Christians during the crusades while Orthodox Christians often favored the Moslem side.) If I were a citizen of Lebanon I would side with them as a bulwark against Moslem fundamentalism but the fact remains that a quota political system is at best democratically flawed.
Ratzinger_p38
Member
Fair enough. Democratically flawed might be a term I could live with.
TT
member
Ron Paul said: They [the 9/11 terrorists] attacked us because we’re over there, we’ve been bombing Iraq for 10 years…
Source: http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=2092
click on ‘Paul vs 9/11 criminal.
Assumption: “we’ve been bombing Iraq for 10 years” refers to actions taken by the United States post-Gulf War to enforce the blockade of and the no-fly zones in Iraq.
Point: The blockade and no-fly zones were either just or unjust.
Point: The blockade and no-fly zones resulted in/contributed to the deaths of thousands of Iraqis.
If RP thought the blockade and no-fly zones were a just action, he wouldn’t have brought it up relative to the 9/11 attacks- doesn’t make any sense.
Therefore, RP brought it up because he believes the US was wrong to enforce the blockade and no-fly zones, that it was an unjust action on the part of the US.
If:
- RP believes that US actions post-Gulf War were unjust,
- and those actions resulted in thousands of Iraqi deaths,
- and the 9/11 attacks were a response to that unjust action which caused thousands of Iraqi deaths…
…how can anyone say he is not justifying the 9/11 attacks and blaming the US?
Source: http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=2092
click on ‘Paul vs 9/11 criminal.
Assumption: “we’ve been bombing Iraq for 10 years” refers to actions taken by the United States post-Gulf War to enforce the blockade of and the no-fly zones in Iraq.
Point: The blockade and no-fly zones were either just or unjust.
Point: The blockade and no-fly zones resulted in/contributed to the deaths of thousands of Iraqis.
If RP thought the blockade and no-fly zones were a just action, he wouldn’t have brought it up relative to the 9/11 attacks- doesn’t make any sense.
Therefore, RP brought it up because he believes the US was wrong to enforce the blockade and no-fly zones, that it was an unjust action on the part of the US.
If:
- RP believes that US actions post-Gulf War were unjust,
- and those actions resulted in thousands of Iraqi deaths,
- and the 9/11 attacks were a response to that unjust action which caused thousands of Iraqi deaths…
…how can anyone say he is not justifying the 9/11 attacks and blaming the US?
Ratzinger_p38
Member
And how could you be so simple-minded to not have read/scene the explanations, by Paul's own mouth which have all been posted on this board? You're going on words in which he was (purposely) given a 30 second reponse which probably needed 2-3 minutes. But the moderators probably wanted to score points with the (obviously) neo-con crowd by cutting him off, like they did in nearly every one of his answers.
Every action has a reaction is essentially Paul's argument.
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