Ron Paul taking Giuliani to the woodshed

[js]

My wife and I are two of those troops. I know several hundred others personally. Even if we disagree with his opposition to the war, we don't believe he spit on us.

We also don't like people speaking for us as if we're not capable of doing so ourselves.

The military personal I know, in theater, took it very personally. Are you and your wife currently fighting in Afghanistan or Iraq?

I don't know hundreds, just 2 of my closest friends who are fighting in Afghanistan. If they feel betrayed by the actions of Ron Paul and the other idiots who voted not to give them the supplies they need to stay alive, then that's all I need to know.

So let me reinstate what I said before and make it a little clearer.... Ron Paul spit in the faces of my friends who are fighting in Afghanistan by voting "Not" to fund the war. In doing so, making clear to my friends who are putting their lives on the line everyday, that he (Ron Paul) doesn't want to give them the supplies they need everyday to stay alive.

Is that better....

 

[pcosmar]

js,
Just to correct the facts. Ron Paul did vote to go after Osama in Afganistan.
He voted against going to Iraq, and has not voted for refunding a Policy that has no constitutional purpose.
BTW, that last bill was filled up with 17 million in PORK.
Had to pay folks to cave.

 

[madmike]

The military personal I know, in theater, took it very personally. Are you and your wife currently fighting in Afghanistan or Iraq?

Meanwhile, you do spit in my face by questioning my grasp and understanding.

When exactly did YOU serve in the military?

That's a rhetorical question. I clicked you earlier, unclicked you because I thought your reply to me might be worthy of consideration.

I see I was wrong.

From my list of Things One Has To Believe To Be A Liberal:

296: That only people who have served in the military can support the war. Anyone who hasn't served isn't entitled to an opinion because they can't know how horrible war is. Of course, no service is needed to oppose the war.

297: That if someone who supports the war claims to be a veteran, it should be loudly shouted that they didn't really serve in combat, only in a "support position."

298: That if someone who did really serve in combat supports the war, it should be loudly announced that he was only an infantryman, not educated in the niceties of sociology, and therefore not entitled to an opinion.

It also works for people who "support" the war, if they don't like the answer they get.

 

[pcosmar]

Just to be clear, we provided sanitized intel from satellites.

State Dept allowed the sale of dual use equipment over the objections of DoD. (Yes, I'm blaming the liberals.)

Not entirely correct.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/31/world/main534798.shtml

A 1995 affidavit by former National Security Agency official Howard Teicher, obtained by the Post, claimed that the U.S. "actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the Iraqis with billions of dollars of credits, by providing military intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third country arms sales to Iraq to make sure Iraq had the military weaponry required."

Teicher claimed that the CIA supplied Iraq with cluster bombs through a Chilean company. However, German and UK firms sold more weapons to Iraq than U.S. arms companies, the Post reports.

Congressional investigations after the Gulf War revealed that the Commerce Department had licensed sales of biological agents, including anthrax, and insecticides, which could be used in chemical weapons, to Iraq.

When Iraq used chemical weapons against the Kurds in 1987, there was anger in Congress and the White House. But a memo in 1988 from Assistant Secretary of State Richard W. Murphy stated that "The U.S.-Iraqi relationship is … important to our long-term political and economic objectives."

There is a lot of information about this subject. I picked this link because it is a "Mainstream" news source. There are other even more damning facts, some part of congressional record.

 

[js]

Meanwhile, you do spit in my face by questioning my grasp and understanding.

When exactly did YOU serve in the military?

That's a rhetorical question. I clicked you earlier, unclicked you because I thought your reply to me might be worthy of consideration.

I see I was wrong.

From my list of Things One Has To Believe To Be A Liberal:

296: That only people who have served in the military can support the war. Anyone who hasn't served isn't entitled to an opinion because they can't know how horrible war is. Of course, no service is needed to oppose the war.

297: That if someone who supports the war claims to be a veteran, it should be loudly shouted that they didn't really serve in combat, only in a "support position."

298: That if someone who did really serve in combat supports the war, it should be loudly announced that he was only an infantryman, not educated in the niceties of sociology, and therefore not entitled to an opinion.

It also works for people who "support" the war, if they don't like the answer they get.

madmike, I have no idea what in the hell you're even talking about at this point.

Did I spit in your face? No. I ask a simple question. I ask if you are currently serving in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Am I a liberal...? ***? If I'm a liberal, then Paris Hilton is Mother Teresa.

At this point I have no idea where you're going with this... so I'll quietly return to my forum.

 

[madmike]

Okay, the cluster bomb one is definitely a back door sale.

OTOH, how well did the Iraqis use them? It's not as if their pilots ever learned or needed to know how to land.

Correct on the chemicals, which were not sold as weapons but as precursors. Commerce asked DoD. DoD said, "What, are you smoking crack?" and State decided it was good for American business. Trust Foggy Bottom.

I'm still going to call bull on a left-wing Reagan helping Iraq buy Sovcom weapons with our $$. Only in Bizarro World. And I don't believe a former NSA guy on that unless he produces the signed sales receipts. Besides, there is no NSA.

We DID sell them a bunch of Hughes 500s for cropdusting which they used for other aerial spraying, and lots of 2.5 and 5 ton military trucks. But I bet we'd be bad for hurting those poor people if we didn't.

 

[Lew]

I know I'm late, but I have to address the ubiquitous "Rudy schooled him" argument. Why do you think that? Because the fools at the debate clapped at Rudy's bullcrap? Were you actually listening? If you'd kept up on the aftermath, you'd see a lot of people think the opposite. Read this.

Ron Paul Nearly Doubles Donations Since Butting Heads with Rudy Giuliani

Earn your opinion, don't just borrow the MSM's.

 

[Mumwaldee]

I think stubborn ignorance is one of the most dangerous problems we have in America today. It's easier to perpetuate an obvious lie than it is to discuss reality and make educated decisions based on common sense good judgment and regard for the will of the people.