Rossi 92 question

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Starting with the 1886, Winchester stopped using a toggle link lever action. They went to the stronger rear locking wedges or bars. This was continued in the 92 and 94 model.
Mine has been modified to 360DW without issue other than a substantial increase in recoil and velocity. I'm pushing 180s at just under 2000 fps.
Before that I was running cast 158s in the mid 1900s.
Brass life has been good even at these loadings.

Well, that’s my point: why is the OP getting - according to him, terrible accuracy - using a time-tested, proven combination? A cast 158gr of decent quality ought to be the ideal bullet for that rifle at anything above .38+P velocity.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Well, that’s my point: why is the OP getting - according to him, terrible accuracy - using a time-tested, proven combination? A cast 158gr of decent quality ought to be the ideal bullet for that rifle at anything above .38+P velocity.

I completely agree. I'm lost on why he's struggling with accuracy. I've run many versions of bullets from 110- 200gr fmjs. None of them had stability issues.
I've run 158s with 4gr of 700x to 16.5 of h110 with good results. I don't think the bullet is the problem unless it's sized too small.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I completely agree. I'm lost on why he's struggling with accuracy. I've run many versions of bullets from 110- 200gr fmjs. None of them had stability issues.
I've run 158s with 4gr of 700x to 16.5 of h110 with good results. I don't think the bullet is the problem unless it's sized too small.

Or out of round. I don’t think he ever checked for projectile concentricity during load work up. If the bullets are out of round then they will tumble.

 

[savagelover]

I agree with your next move of trying out 158 gr XTPs, but your experience does make me wonder a bit.

Do you happen to experience any barrel leading when using the gas-checked bullets? I know that seems like a counter-intuitive question, but the reason I ask is because I wonder if the gas check is actually under-sized for the bore, to the such a point that straight-up obturated lead based bullets are giving you better accuracy.

If it were me at this point, out of sheer curiosity, I would take those same gas-checked 158 gr bullets, and load 20 rounds -- 10 with gas check, 10 with gas check removed -- at the same powder charge. You may need to load to a lower velocity so as to account for the lack of gas check. I would then shoot a careful string of 10 with the gas check, clean the bore, and then fire a careful string of the non-gas checked, and just see if there's any difference.

Or you could slug your bore and compare your findings to your gas check diameter, but where's the fun in that?

Or just leave it alone and move on with life, like a sane person.

I have seen no apparent leading yet.

 

[AJC1]

I have seen no apparent leading yet.

What do your bullets measure out at and how does that compare to your slug. I shoot a Marlin microgrove and most agree it doesn't get worse than that.

 

[savagelover]

My slug was .3575. I'm sizing at .358 inch. My alloy is a bhn of 9 to 12 for what I've tried. Maybe I'm just not pushing them fast enough. Average velocity from 8 foot is around 1250 fps. I was a little concerned about going faster with the soft bullets. So if it stops raining I will load up a few with lilgun which I hear is a good choice and try them. I really appreciate all of your replies. As you may have guessed this is all new to me in rifle. John

 

[AJC1]

My slug was .3575. I'm sizing at .358 inch. My alloy is a bhn of 9 to 12 for what I've tried. Maybe I'm just not pushing them fast enough. Average velocity from 8 foot is around 1250 fps. I was a little concerned about going faster with the soft bullets. So if it stops raining I will load up a few with lilgun which I hear is a good choice and try them. I really appreciate all of your replies. As you may have guessed this is all new to me in rifle. John

I'm not saying my way is correct so let's get that out of the way immediately. I'm pushing a noe 154 that dropped at 156 grains with rmr lead with 13.7 grains of #9. That's no gas check just powder coated. If you would like a small sample of what I'm casting cover shipping and I'll mail them out.

 

[Bfh_auto]

My slug was .3575. I'm sizing at .358 inch. My alloy is a bhn of 9 to 12 for what I've tried. Maybe I'm just not pushing them fast enough. Average velocity from 8 foot is around 1250 fps. I was a little concerned about going faster with the soft bullets. So if it stops raining I will load up a few with lilgun which I hear is a good choice and try them. I really appreciate all of your replies. As you may have guessed this is all new to me in rifle. John

Don't worry about the bhn too much. I got hung up on that for a while. Then I tried driving Hornady 158 cowboy swaged bullets as hard as I could. Leading didn't show up till mid 1800s. I didn't go high enough to lose accuracy.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Don't worry about the bhn too much. I got hung up on that for a while. Then I tried driving Hornady 158 cowboy swaged bullets as hard as I could. Leading didn't show up till mid 1800s. I didn't go high enough to lose accuracy.

Kind of a matter of taste and hunting style. I like to be at ground level so prefer harder alloys that give me a thru-n-thru and a blood trail in case I miss the big organs. I know, ideally I would only take the ideal bang-flop shot and pass up anything quartering but it just doesn't work that way all the time. That and if I'm out for deer and spot a young pig I'm taking it. Deer are too flighty; pigs just ain't skeered. Too soft an alloy against that shoulder shield and you wound the critter without dropping it.
I agree about the Hornady's and the Speer swaged lead though. I've run the 240gr. Speer LSWC plenty hard and not had any leading in my RSBH. I do tend to stick with 2400 and 4100 so that might help.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Are all of you shooting Rossi 92s or are you shooting your loads out of other guns with different riflings? What range are you shooting them at?
I'm highly suspect of the 1/30 rifling being to slow for what he is shooting, at the speed he is shooting them at.
When I was looking though other forums on this subject, I came across post after post of the same problem with the Rossi's 1/30 twist. 125gr would shoot accurately and 158- 180gr and up wouldn't , but a common denominator was that the loads were midrange pistol loads.
I still think he needs to try 158 gr XTPs that the ballistic calculator says should be stable.

Average velocity from 8 foot is around 1250 fps

That's pretty slow for any rifle. Bullet spin is dependent on velocity for a given rifling.
1250 fps from an 1/16-1/18 barrel twist which revolvers use will give you good accuracy at that speed. Your rifle should be putting out much higher velocity with the same load that the revolver would make, due to the longer barrel.

You are purposely loading down your rifle loads to revolver speed which is to slow for that rifling.

You need to get the bullet speed up 500 fps more, at least, if you want them to shoot correctly out of that 1/30 twist barrel.
A 1250 fps bullet out of a revolver should be going 1750fps out of a 16 - 20" rifle barrel. That's the speed that bullet is expected to be going out of the rifle.
Henry Rifle uses a 1-16 twist in their .357 magnum rifles. That barrel twist would let you shoot anything from weak 38 special loads to up to what ever.
You can over spin a bullet and get away with it until it comes apart and still have good accuracy but you cannot underspin one and expect it to be accurate.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Are all of you shooting Rossi 92s or are you shooting your loads out of other guns with different riflings? What range are you shooting them at?
I'm highly suspect of the 1/30 rifling being to slow for what he is shooting, at the speed he is shooting them at.
When I was looking though other forums on this subject, I came across post after post of the same problem with the Rossi's 1/30 twist. 125gr would shoot accurately and 158- 180gr and up wouldn't , but a common denominator was that the loads were midrange pistol loads.
I still think he needs to try 158 gr XTPs that the ballistic calculator says should be stable.


That's pretty slow for any rifle. Bullet spin is dependent on velocity for a given rifling.
1250 fps from an 1/16-1/18 barrel twist which revolvers use will give you good accuracy at that speed. Your rifle should be putting out much higher velocity with the same load that the revolver would make, due to the longer barrel.

You are purposely loading down your rifle loads to revolver speed which is to slow for that rifling.

You need to get the bullet speed up 500 fps more, at least, if you want them to shoot correctly out of that 1/30 twist barrel.
A 1250 fps bullet out of a revolver should be going 1750fps out of a 16 - 20" rifle barrel. That's the speed that bullet is expected to be going out of the rifle.
Henry Rifle uses a 1-16 twist in their .357 magnum rifles. That barrel twist would let you shoot anything from weak 38 special loads to up to what ever.
You can over spin a bullet and get away with it until it comes apart and still have good accuracy but you cannot underspin one and expect it to be accurate.

Mine is a Rossi that I modified to shoot 360 DW. I mostly run 357. Mine is a 20" though.

 

[Riomouse911]

Try a 178 gr LSWC. I put some of Matts Bullets offerings over 11.7 gr of AA #9 and they shot well from my 16” Rossi 92 and 4” 686+.



(They were a bit smoky at the indoor range with the S&W.)



Stay safe.

 

[brewer12345]

I had good accuracy with a near max load or 2400 and a gas checked 158 grain swc out of a 357 lever. Not legal for hunting in my state, so this was just to fool with.

 

[buck460XVR]

If you can get them, 158 grain XTP-FPs would be ideal.

^^^ This. With .357 the issue is getting enough penetration, especially if you hit shoulder. I've had good luck with regular 158ge XTPs at revolver velocities, but they tend to be a tad fragile at carbine velocities, especially close up. My little Rossi is a tack driver with either.