Ruger American: 7.62x39 or 300 blackout?

[<*(((><]

4. The claim is that the .300 BO is a few percentage points more efficient/powerful than the 7.62X39. Not sure a deer can feel 7 or 8%.

I beg to differ on the "more powerful" point, but all your other points are accurate. If one is comparing reloaded rounds to reloaded rounds. One can get more energy from the x39. But the 300 BO, is a very efficient round.

 

[someguy2800]

I beg to differ on the "more powerful" point, but all your other points are accurate. If one is comparing reloaded rounds to reloaded rounds. One can get more energy from the x39. But the 300 BO, is a very efficient round.

Agreed. Factory ammo for both is pretty anemic, but both have good potential for handloading. I personally think people overplay the difference between the two. The steel case russian stuff is actually the most potent factory ammo for the 7.62x39 that I've seen usually averaging 2400-2450 fps from my 16" barrel. From personal experience I would say you can handload a 300 blackout to be near as makes no difference the same as factory 7.62x39 ammo. My 300 blackout upper pushes a handloaded 125 gr to 2400 with a book maximum load of Win 296 and no pressure indications of any kind. If you handload both though the 7.62x39 has a clear advantage, at least when using CFE BLK. Mine does 2630 fps with a 125 gr accubond with CFE BLK. I maintain that the 300 blk is a better reloaders cartridge just due to the brass availability and that it uses 1/3rd less powder. It also works with a wider range of powders which are cheaper and much more available. 7.62x39 really only works well with a very short list of powders, and they are all significantly more expensive and harder to find.

The things that make 300 blackout shine are the efficiency, component availability, and ability to suppress. The 7.62x39 shines in how well they shoot with steel case ammo thats cheaper than reloading, and it has the potential to be a couple hundred FPS faster either with factory or handloads. They are both fun. Get both if you can!

 

[<*(((><]

Agreed. Factory ammo for both is pretty anemic, but both have good potential for handloading. I personally think people overplay the difference between the two. The steel case russian stuff is actually the most potent factory ammo for the 7.62x39 that I've seen usually averaging 2400-2450 fps from my 16" barrel. From personal experience I would say you can handload a 300 blackout to be near as makes no difference the same as factory 7.62x39 ammo. My 300 blackout upper pushes a handloaded 125 gr to 2400 with a book maximum load of Win 296 and no pressure indications of any kind. If you handload both though the 7.62x39 has a clear advantage, at least when using CFE BLK. Mine does 2630 fps with a 125 gr accubond with CFE BLK. I maintain that the 300 blk is a better reloaders cartridge just due to the brass availability and that it uses 1/3rd less powder. It also works with a wider range of powders which are cheaper and much more available. 7.62x39 really only works well with a very short list of powders, and they are all significantly more expensive and harder to find.

The things that make 300 blackout shine are the efficiency, component availability, and ability to suppress. The 7.62x39 shines in how well they shoot with steel case ammo thats cheaper than reloading, and it has the potential to be a couple hundred FPS faster either with factory or handloads. They are both fun. Get both if you can!

Well said, couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[adcoch1]

Agreed. Factory ammo for both is pretty anemic, but both have good potential for handloading. I personally think people overplay the difference between the two. The steel case russian stuff is actually the most potent factory ammo for the 7.62x39 that I've seen usually averaging 2400-2450 fps from my 16" barrel. From personal experience I would say you can handload a 300 blackout to be near as makes no difference the same as factory 7.62x39 ammo. My 300 blackout upper pushes a handloaded 125 gr to 2400 with a book maximum load of Win 296 and no pressure indications of any kind. If you handload both though the 7.62x39 has a clear advantage, at least when using CFE BLK. Mine does 2630 fps with a 125 gr accubond with CFE BLK. I maintain that the 300 blk is a better reloaders cartridge just due to the brass availability and that it uses 1/3rd less powder. It also works with a wider range of powders which are cheaper and much more available. 7.62x39 really only works well with a very short list of powders, and they are all significantly more expensive and harder to find.

The things that make 300 blackout shine are the efficiency, component availability, and ability to suppress. The 7.62x39 shines in how well they shoot with steel case ammo thats cheaper than reloading, and it has the potential to be a couple hundred FPS faster either with factory or handloads. They are both fun. Get both if you can!

Both is the right answer! I think the main advantage of the 7.62x39 is the extra case capacity. The load specs don't due it justice, the brass is more than durable enough for another 10k pressure, and in a bolt gun it can easily be loaded up, similar to a 7x57 in modern guns. And it will run some impressively heavy bullets at useful velocities without a ton of powder. But the blackout is hyper efficient powder wise, and the mags are at least 1/3 the price.

Yeah, both is the answer...

 

[someguy2800]

Both is the right answer! I think the main advantage of the 7.62x39 is the extra case capacity. The load specs don't due it justice, the brass is more than durable enough for another 10k pressure, and in a bolt gun it can easily be loaded up, similar to a 7x57 in modern guns. And it will run some impressively heavy bullets at useful velocities without a ton of powder. But the blackout is hyper efficient powder wise, and the mags are at least 1/3 the price.

Yeah, both is the answer...

Yeah that's another factor, in a bolt action I would not be afraid to load it to 50,000 cup if you had good data or good experience handloading. I would probably work up to a compressed load of CFE BLK watching carefully for pressure signs. The load data hodgdon gives is pretty close to a full case already but you could probably go up another full grain or two. I personally doubt you could match CFE BLK with any other powder even loaded to 50,000 cup though.

In an AR15 you do need to be a little more reserved as it can start breaking bolt lugs over time even with factory ammo, though an actual catastrophic failure of a bolt is quite unlikely. Its probably not a bad idea with a 7.62x39 AR15 to replace the bolt every couple thousand rounds as preventative maintenance. Bolts are cheap and readily available so not a big deal. I actually bought a spare to keep on hand for mine for like $30.

 

[Newtosavage]

I would probably work up to a compressed load of CFE BLK watching carefully for pressure signs. The load data hodgdon gives is pretty close to a full case already but you could probably go up another full grain or two.

I used 29 grains of CFE BLK under a 123 SST to get over 2500 fps out of my 20" Savage and Howa barrels. In all the loading I did for the 7.62x39, I never once saw any kind of pressure signs at all. I'm sure I could have gone higher, but didn't really see the need to as my 29 grain BLK loads were already hopping right along, and they were super accurate. One hole groups were not uncommon with that load from either gun. In fact, many days at the range, my 7.62x39 hand loads (from either rifle) would out-shoot my Tikka and other Savage rifles. LOL

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

Call me another big fan of CFE BLK and 7.62x39. My 2 rifles both like 28gr of CFE BLK and any .310 123-125 bullet I thrown on top. It's a middle range load and I have no idea of velocity but for plinking it doesn't matter to me.

For hunting I'll use either my 135 FTX load or the factory load Federal Fusion till I shoot them all. After that the 123 Gold Dot will be used.

 

[Armored farmer]

I came across these in my target files.
Just posting to show what cheap wolf ammo can do.
7.62x39 mm

 

[Robbins290]

Love my ranch in 762x39. The price of ammo made me lean towards the 762 vs the 300. I do not plan on running a can so it was a obvious answer for me. Will be taking hunting this year.

 

[CraigC]

I prefer the .300BO because of its easy fit into the dual role of supersonic 110-125gr or subsonic 200-240gr capabilities. Don't care anything about blasting with cheap factory ammo. Easy AR compatibility and fitting unmodified AR mags is also a consideration.

7.62x39 can do everything 300 Blackout can do. And it is more powerful.

Wishful thinking.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

I prefer the .300BO because of its easy fit into the dual role of supersonic 110-125gr or subsonic 200-240gr capabilities. Don't care anything about blasting with cheap factory ammo. Easy AR compatibility and fitting unmodified AR mags is also a consideration.



Wishful thinking.

How so? Explain your position please

 

[CraigC]

How so? Explain your position please

The 7.62x39 does not shoot heavyweight bullets at subsonic velocities very well and I wouldn't put much stock in another 100fps with supers. Nor does it do very well in the AR15.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

Hmm well I suppose my 7.62x39 AR pistol and carbine haven't gotten the memo about not working. 700-800 trouble free rounds and any evidence supporting it doesn't shoot heavyweight bullets? And 100fps more than the 300blk I beg to differ on that one. Reload to factory comparison maybe. But there is no way possible a 300blk will push a 125 grain bullet to 2400fps safely just isn't gonna happen.

 

[someguy2800]

The 7.62x39 does not shoot heavyweight bullets at subsonic velocities very well and I wouldn't put much stock in another 100fps with supers. Nor does it do very well in the AR15.

With good magazines it works perfectly in the AR15. Like it was made for it.

Hmm well I suppose my 7.62x39 AR pistol and carbine haven't gotten the memo about not working. 700-800 trouble free rounds and any evidence supporting it doesn't shoot heavyweight bullets? And 100fps more than the 300blk I beg to differ on that one. Reload to factory comparison maybe. But there is no way possible a 300blk will push a 125 grain bullet to 2400fps safely just isn't gonna happen.

My normal 16" 300 blackout load does 2350 with Win 296 just under max. It also did 2470fps with Hodgdon's max load of Lil gun and pulled hornady 125 gr hp's. My 16" 7.62x39 does 2620 fps with 125 gr ballistic tips and CFE BLK. So I would say realistically about a 200 fps difference factory to factory, and handload to handload.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

With good magazines it works perfectly in the AR15. Like it was made for it.



My normal 16" 300 blackout load does 2350 with Win 296 just under max. It also did 2470fps with Hodgdon's max load of Lil gun and pulled hornady 125 gr hp's. My 16" 7.62x39 does 2620 fps with 125 gr ballistic tips and CFE BLK. So I would say realistically about a 200 fps difference factory to factory, and handload to handload.

I do agree that it's closer to a 200fps difference and not 100. I've shot and loaded both calibers fairly extensively and you are getting some very good velocity from your barrels. Possible you have fast barrels or a chrono that reads high? I've never seen any 300blk push a 125 over 2350 without pressure signs. And a touch over 2500 is all I've ever gotten from a 7.62x39.

I do believe my barrels are more the norm and yours are more the exception, but hey I'm jealous and wish mine were that fast.

 

[Choctaw]

I bought my rifle in 7.62x39 so I wouldn't need to reload.
At $6-$7/box, I dont bother.

Exactly. This ammo can be found anywhere too.

 

[someguy2800]

Exactly. This ammo can be found anywhere too.

Same reason I got one. Its nice to just shoot and not care about where the cases land or trying to find time to reload them! It pains me a bit watching my 300 blackout brass twirl off into the brush.

 

[AndyP]

I have the Ruger American and several ARs in x39, love the caliber. Built the first AR years ago when the internets knew they could never work. All mine are extremely reliable.
In my opinion the blackouts only advantage is subsonics. The x39 American and most AR barrels have a 1/10 twist and will not stabilize heavy subs, though my Faxon barrels have a faster twist and will-- I've shot a few but have no interest in neutered rifle rounds, even though I shoot 100% suppressed.

 

[CraigC]

IMHO, even 200fps is not enough to give up the advantages the .300BO has. Specifically if you're going to use it in a short barrel, suppressed or in an AR.

I didn't say the 7.62x39 didn't work in the AR. I said it was problematic, which it is. The .300BO runs like it was made for it and with standard AR mags, because it was.

The standard twist rate is not fast enough for heavy bullets out of the Russian.

In fact, the Russian is a fine cartridge but it does not "do everything the .300 does". It's better for cheap blasting with steel cased imported ammo and is a slightly faster supersonic cartridge if you don't mind rattling .308" bullets down a .311" bore using a communist cartridge.

 

[<*(((><]

For what it's worth, my AR47 has not had any issues. I know there were significant issues 15-20 years ago when it was just being realized but there are a lot of improvements, and much of that is water under the bridge. I've covered in several other threads what it takes to get a reliable AR47 in my experience.

I'll take a x39 over a 300BO any day. But too each there own, I gave my preference; and it is merely a preference, not gospel.

And I'll continue "rattling .308" bullets down a .311" bore" with good accuracy using my "communist cartridge." Guess I'll go and shoot my "nazi 9mm's" with it, or my "communist mosin-nagant" and at noon day break I'll enjoy a cup of tea with my "imperialistic .303 british," maybe follow up for a late afternoon volley of "red army 5.45x39 from the motherland" wash myself clean with the "cartridge of the world police 5.56" and retreat to bed with my "7.5 French."

So the x39 was developed by Russians, it gets old the down talking of an inanimate object and those who use it because it fought wars on opposite sides of us, this is akin to an anti-gun fanatic telling us that our inanimate guns are killing people, it gets old there and it especially gets old within our own ranks.

 

[CraigC]

That was a tongue-in-cheek comment.

As I've said, the 7.62x39 is a better cartridge for strictly supersonic use or for cheap blasting. I've been eyeballing them myself, though if not out of an American, a proper Russian derivative.

You have a busy day ahead of you. I was thinking about shooting one of my Nazi-9mm's out of my favorite Croatian pistol with my Murrican suppressor.

 

[<*(((><]

@CraigC, I know it was likely said tongue-in-cheek.

Really, the 300BO/x39 really should be summed up, do you want to suppress as well as shoot supers? Go 300 BO, do you want better super performance go x39; although there are a few barrels with faster twist that some have got some subsonic loads going for; but I wouldn't call that a trait it has going for it by any means, just a possibility.

The versatility goes to the 300BO for sure.