Ruger LCP 380 auto
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Mastiff4570
Member
ok well it seems to me that that is the way the gun market kinda wors osme one releases soemthing and everyone looks at it makes little differences and some cosmetic stuff and make a new one i also have shot the kel tec loved it but i think that the ruger would be choice cause i have a few rugers they work really nice and take a beating i mean its like the sa revolver or the 1911 i mean honestly thats how guns work how many companies "ripoff the 1911 design i dont see the big problem i mean i thought thats the way t works
Mastiff4570
Member
ok well it seems to me that that is the way the gun market kinda wors osme one releases soemthing and everyone looks at it makes little differences and some cosmetic stuff and make a new one i also have shot the kel tec loved it but i think that the ruger would be choice cause i have a few rugers they work really nice and take a beating i mean its like the sa revolver or the 1911 i mean honestly thats how guns work how many companies "ripoff the 1911 design i dont see the big problem i mean i thought thats the way t works
I just learned about the Ruger LCP today and I am stoked. I've been looking for an affordable pocket gun and now I've found it. I had considered the Kel-Tec P3AT, but from what I've read, the only people stoked on it are gun writers and half the P3AT owners. The other half had to spend an extra 35 bucks to overnight it back to Florida so Kel-Tec could make it work. I'd rather spend the extra 35 bucks and get the Ruger.
I've owned a Blackhawk and I currently own an SP101. What I love about a Ruger is that I feel like if I needed to in a pinch, I could use it as a framing hammer. When I went to my local gunshop and asked to handle the Kel-Tec P3AT, it felt like a squirt gun. The cheap plastic feels like the gun would snap in my back pocket if I farted or sat down too fast. Personally, I couldn't care less if Ruger ripped off Kel-Tec. How many customers has Kel-Tec ripped off with their cheap guns? About half of them. And now all the Kel-Tec owners have to convince themselves they've got a great gun and spending an extra 30 bucks would only be for the Ruger name. Whatever, give me the Ruger any day. Thanks Ruger for stealing from Kel-Tec so I can have a gun that works.
Here's a nice scenario: A bad guy approaches you and your wife with a gun. Says he's going to take her and kill you. You have one gun in your pocket that just got shipped from the factory that day. Would you rather it be the Kel-Tec or the Ruger?
I've owned a Blackhawk and I currently own an SP101. What I love about a Ruger is that I feel like if I needed to in a pinch, I could use it as a framing hammer. When I went to my local gunshop and asked to handle the Kel-Tec P3AT, it felt like a squirt gun. The cheap plastic feels like the gun would snap in my back pocket if I farted or sat down too fast. Personally, I couldn't care less if Ruger ripped off Kel-Tec. How many customers has Kel-Tec ripped off with their cheap guns? About half of them. And now all the Kel-Tec owners have to convince themselves they've got a great gun and spending an extra 30 bucks would only be for the Ruger name. Whatever, give me the Ruger any day. Thanks Ruger for stealing from Kel-Tec so I can have a gun that works.
Here's a nice scenario: A bad guy approaches you and your wife with a gun. Says he's going to take her and kill you. You have one gun in your pocket that just got shipped from the factory that day. Would you rather it be the Kel-Tec or the Ruger?
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I am going to get the Ruger LCP but to be fair to Keltec they sell something like 30,000 P3ATs a year. I really doubt you'll find that 15,000 of them are sent back. I really think you hear a lot about them because they sell a LOT of them.
I have a P32 I have carried quite a bit. It has been 100 percent since day one. Through hundreds of rounds it has never faltered.
I have a P32 I have carried quite a bit. It has been 100 percent since day one. Through hundreds of rounds it has never faltered.
alamo
Member
Not that it would make any difference to you at all but the Ruger will feel the same way since it is essentially the same size and made of the same materials.
Make that over 50,000.
alamo
Member
Not that it would make any difference to you at all but the Ruger will feel the same way since it is essentially the same size and made of the same materials.
Make that over 50,000. For some perspective, Ruger sells about 100,000 autoloading pistol per year.
I've read the 2005 production numbers for Keltec. They produces 49,000 p32s/P3ATs. They may have stepped up production of the P3ATs. Thats still a butt load more P3ATs that most others guns out there. Its also more than the total production of most other gun companies in the us.
Commander Crusty
Member
Hmm ... so it's okay for Smith and Wesson to make a Colt 1911 and a Smalther, and it's okay for Taurus to make a Model 10, and it's okay for Beretta to sell Peace Makers, but if Ruger does it--they SUCK! Right? Just wanted to be clear on that.
As to actual infringement, Glock sued Smith and Wesson over a tiny little piece of the Sigma, won their case and S&W paid them. If the Ruger is truly a Kel-Tec rip-off, and they have not already made some sort of financial arrangement with that company, I'm sure the courts will help the two sides work something out.
MY problem with the pocket Ruger is those damned sights!
If I'm close enough to use the gun without sites, I would rather use a knife (that way I KNOW It won't jam or run out of ammo). How flipping hard is it to put some damned sites on the gun just in case I have to use it, oh, I don't know, in PUBLIC!
As to actual infringement, Glock sued Smith and Wesson over a tiny little piece of the Sigma, won their case and S&W paid them. If the Ruger is truly a Kel-Tec rip-off, and they have not already made some sort of financial arrangement with that company, I'm sure the courts will help the two sides work something out.
MY problem with the pocket Ruger is those damned sights!
If I'm close enough to use the gun without sites, I would rather use a knife (that way I KNOW It won't jam or run out of ammo). How flipping hard is it to put some damned sites on the gun just in case I have to use it, oh, I don't know, in PUBLIC!
Alamo, you said:
Not that it would make any difference to you at all but the Ruger will feel the same way since it is essentially the same size and made of the same materials.
They're not essentially the same size. The Ruger is 6.5 percent thicker and 13 percent heavier. Knowing Ruger's reputation, and experiencing it first hand, I personally believe that will translate to a sturdier and better built gun. I will personally buy the Ruger over the Kel-Tec and be very happy about it. And you didn't respond to my ultimate question. When the chips are down and you have to reach for it, and you got it straight from the factory and haven't shipped it back to Florida for some fixing (at a $35 shipping fee you have to foot), would you rather find the Ruger in your pocket or the Kel-Tec? For me that's a no-brainer. Give me that Ruger with it's history and well-earned reputation for reliability any day.
And why does everyone keep saying the Ruger looks like the Kel-Tec? If this Ruger was Kel-Tec's new P3AT everyone would be saying, wow, Kel-Tec's done it again. They took the P3AT to a new level. It looks ten times better and it has a sturdier feel. Way to go Kel-Tec. But Kel-Tec didn't do jack, and Ruger stole their gun (thankfully for the customer) and made it ten times better. The Ruger looks good. The Kel-Tec looks just like all their other pocket guns and rifles: an absolute joke. Their guns are hideous. I would pay the extra 30 bucks on looks alone.
One other thing. What's with the name P3AT? That is so lame. What is it, a personalized license plate? And the stupidest part is that P380 is just as many characters as P3AT. A lame name for a lame looking gun with a lame reputation for reliability. Any P3AT owner that has never had their gun screw up has dodged a bullet. Your P3AT may work fine, or it may be one of the numerous P3ATs that malfunctions. But why gamble on an ugly gun when Ruger's making a nicer one for nearly the same price?
Not that it would make any difference to you at all but the Ruger will feel the same way since it is essentially the same size and made of the same materials.
They're not essentially the same size. The Ruger is 6.5 percent thicker and 13 percent heavier. Knowing Ruger's reputation, and experiencing it first hand, I personally believe that will translate to a sturdier and better built gun. I will personally buy the Ruger over the Kel-Tec and be very happy about it. And you didn't respond to my ultimate question. When the chips are down and you have to reach for it, and you got it straight from the factory and haven't shipped it back to Florida for some fixing (at a $35 shipping fee you have to foot), would you rather find the Ruger in your pocket or the Kel-Tec? For me that's a no-brainer. Give me that Ruger with it's history and well-earned reputation for reliability any day.
And why does everyone keep saying the Ruger looks like the Kel-Tec? If this Ruger was Kel-Tec's new P3AT everyone would be saying, wow, Kel-Tec's done it again. They took the P3AT to a new level. It looks ten times better and it has a sturdier feel. Way to go Kel-Tec. But Kel-Tec didn't do jack, and Ruger stole their gun (thankfully for the customer) and made it ten times better. The Ruger looks good. The Kel-Tec looks just like all their other pocket guns and rifles: an absolute joke. Their guns are hideous. I would pay the extra 30 bucks on looks alone.
One other thing. What's with the name P3AT? That is so lame. What is it, a personalized license plate? And the stupidest part is that P380 is just as many characters as P3AT. A lame name for a lame looking gun with a lame reputation for reliability. Any P3AT owner that has never had their gun screw up has dodged a bullet. Your P3AT may work fine, or it may be one of the numerous P3ATs that malfunctions. But why gamble on an ugly gun when Ruger's making a nicer one for nearly the same price?
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alamo
Member
That's very impressive. The pistol isn't out on the market yet, you haven't handled one but you know it's "ten times better".
Think about it for awhile.
alamo
Member
That's very impressive. The pistol isn't out on the market yet, you haven't handled one but you know it's "ten times better"?
Think about it for awhile.
Alamo,
You still haven't answered my question. At crunch time, which would you rather have in your pocket? This is my third time asking this.
I said ten times better. It's obvious I'm being rhetorical since that is something that can't even be quantified. I will say this, I was not willing to buy a Kel-Tec because of the negative experiences people have reported. I truly do have confidence in Ruger even though the gun is not even on the market. As crazy as it may sound, I'm willing to buy the Ruger on their reputation alone. In fact, I'm going to buy one. They have a reputation for quality and reliability and a very satisfied customer in me already.
Finally, can you honestly say the Kel-Tec looks better than the Ruger? Can you say they look the same? That the Ruger doesn't look better than the Kel-Tec? I would venture to say that if you placed them both on a table and asked a random sample of 100 people which gun looks better, a large majority (if not all) would say the Ruger. I've not conducted this survey, Alamo, it's just what I think. I also think it's what you think.
Alamo, are you sad you're stuck with your Kel-Tec when you could have the Ruger for nearly the same price?
You still haven't answered my question. At crunch time, which would you rather have in your pocket? This is my third time asking this.
I said ten times better. It's obvious I'm being rhetorical since that is something that can't even be quantified. I will say this, I was not willing to buy a Kel-Tec because of the negative experiences people have reported. I truly do have confidence in Ruger even though the gun is not even on the market. As crazy as it may sound, I'm willing to buy the Ruger on their reputation alone. In fact, I'm going to buy one. They have a reputation for quality and reliability and a very satisfied customer in me already.
Finally, can you honestly say the Kel-Tec looks better than the Ruger? Can you say they look the same? That the Ruger doesn't look better than the Kel-Tec? I would venture to say that if you placed them both on a table and asked a random sample of 100 people which gun looks better, a large majority (if not all) would say the Ruger. I've not conducted this survey, Alamo, it's just what I think. I also think it's what you think.
Alamo, are you sad you're stuck with your Kel-Tec when you could have the Ruger for nearly the same price?
alamo
Member
I don't really care if you like Kel-Tec or not. I've not been trying to convince you otherwise. If you like the Ruger LCP, that's great - get one.
alamo
Member
If you insist, I prefer the Kel-Tec P-3AT to Ruger LCP. Several reasons:
1) I have 5 Kel-Tecs and they are all very reliable. I have 2 P-3ATs.
2) I don't own the Ruger LCP, nobody does. It is not for sale yet and I don't know if it is a good pistol or not. We'll know after awhile. If it's a good pistol then that's great.
I don't know that the Ruger is better looking than the P-3AT or not. I've never seen a real one. I've seen professionally taken pictures of it on Ruger website that make it look as good as it possibly can. We'll see how it looks "in person". Sometimes that is different than a photo.
If it looks a little better than the P-3T then I could care less. It's just not important to me.
Thank you for being forthright. I suppose we will all have to see how the Ruger performs in about a month. I'm personally very excited about the gun. My Rugers have been good to me. I'm glad your Kel-Tecs work well. Five guns cost a lot of money (to me).
Kind of a side question: why do you have two P3ATs?
Kind of a side question: why do you have two P3ATs?
alamo
Member
I always like to have a back-up carry pistol. You can end up with a lot of pistols that way over the years.
I first had a Seecamp .32. They were way too expensive back then to get 2 and mine was not reliable and I sold it. Then I had 2 Autauga .32s (Seecamp knock-off), then 2 Kel-Tec P-32s, and then 2 P-3ATs.
alamo
Member
2006 numbers are out. They made 68,000 P-3ATs and P-32s in 2006.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2006.pdf
wow. so that means 34,000 are going to get returned huh?? Whatever, I'm so sick of the KT bashers. If you don't like them, don't get one. If you cant figure out that the VAST majority of KTs work just fine your probably just a danger to yourself and anyone around you anyhow. I've owned several and they work just fine. I'll get a Ruger LCP because it is a bit bigger and heavier than the P3AT so I think the recoil will be a bit more manageabele and it will be a bit easier to shoot. The P3ATs I've shot worked fine.
I simply can not understand how someone can look at two different guns, see the difference, see the specs that are different, see the internal diagrams that are different , and then say " they are the same"....maybe we need another type class for gun ownership than what we do now....
My favorite thing is all the Kel-Tec owners saying, "I love my Kel-Tec. I've never had a failure after 2000 rounds. People shouldn't bash the P3AT until they've actually owned one." And then at the end of their post, they say they're going to get the Ruger. Come again?
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
I will pass, as my KEL-TEC P3AT .380 has performed flawlessly~! 
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