I respectfully disagree with you. Bigger more powerful is better but more importantly a person should carry what they're comfortable and proficient with whatever that is. When I mentioned a lack of understanding I was referring to the way young guys that work in the Trades open carry a 1911 .45ACP on their belt and don't understand why everyone doesn't. Many professionals don't have that luxury due to professional dress and some places like court houses have scanners and prohibit any firearm. Elderly people may have trouble racking the slide on certain pistols or handling recoil. One must make do with what they can. I actually think people should ideally have several different sized firearms they are proficient with so they can carry the largest size their dress and environment permits.
Ruger LCP And General Pocket Gun Hatred
- Thread starter Mr. Mosin
- Start date
- Status
I respectfully disagree with you. Bigger more powerful is better but more importantly a person should carry what they're comfortable and proficient with whatever that is. When I mentioned a lack of understanding I was referring to the way young guys that work in the Trades open carry a 1911 .45ACP on their belt and don't understand why everyone doesn't. Many professionals don't have that luxury due to professional dress and some places like court houses have scanners and prohibit any firearm. Elderly people may have trouble racking the slide on certain pistols or handling recoil. One must make do with what they can. I actually think people should ideally have several different sized firearms they are proficient with so they can carry the largest size their dress and environment permits.
As an absolute last ditch defense when no other options remain to protect myself and my family. Period. I stay out of other people's business and their protection is on them. I'm not a hero. It's not worth the legal bills.
The_Quartermaster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2022
- Messages
- 474
I don't think that you're trying to understand the situation for those thinking that. Some folks wear button shirts and slacks all day, not so easy to conceal and when the risk is low, but there's a need for deep concealment for whatever reason, then the pocket gun as a main shines. Or go unarmed because pick one or the other for these people because you are not going to get to pick what you'd rather have or want them to have in case so choose wisely.By all means, ignore those comments if they annoy you.
I do think there is a lack of understanding here, but its coming from those who insist that a pocket gun is fine as a primary gun. They can and do have a role, but its not that.
Look at it this way, somehow your kids Magic 8 Ball tells you that youre absolutely going to be in a gunfight later in the day. You will absolutely have to deal with it, no way around it, and its going to be ugly, and its going to be a bit more than what the "rule of 3" proponents keep telling you is all you'll ever have to deal with. Knowing that, what are you going to choose to carry that day? The LCP? Seecamp? What?
This isnt about pocket gun "hate". Not at all. Its about being at least somewhat realistic in your choices and the skills that go with them, so you can, within reason, deal with as much as you might have to deal with. We dont get to choose the fight, thats the other guy's option and luxury. Whatever he, and maybe some of his buddies decide, is what you get, and at their timing. And of course, youre as well prepared and practiced as reasonably possible to deal with that, right?
Im not knocking back up guns in the least either, they do have a place, and if you get to working with and shooting them a bit, especially in a more realistic manner, I think youll come to realize, that you can actually do better than what youre always told is all you can possibly do. At least thats how it worked out for me, and I feel a lot better now, knowing what I do, than when I thought that things like my Seecamps, LCP's, Baby Brownings, etc, was all I could possibly get away with.
If you are bothering to carry a gun, why are you carrying it? Seriously.
I dont know about you, but I do my best to always carry the gun(s) that will most likely give me the best chance at dealing with anything I might get, and I put in a lot of time and effort with them, to be as capable with them as I can. I believe thats part of my responsibility that goes along with carrying that gun. And carrying it is really about the smallest and easiest part of the whole equation.
By all means, carry whatever you want and floats your boat. Just be realistic with yourself about what it, and your actual skills with it really are.
Your next argument is using a fallacy to determine what choices are made. So please look at it from am normal way and not a narrative way either.
Yes, it is about hate because you are hating it right now now. It's really no one else's business but the carrier and only the carrier. Us in the community can "discuss" (which is doublespeak thinking that we've got a right to vote on it) but the reality is that we have zero say. And you are using a false equivalency again by the way, another fallacy. It's not how to argue a position. Either you have conclusive facts that this will exactly happen or you are appealing to the unknown here.
So you were in a gunfight? Citation please to back this up with?
Again, sometimes this is the only option so why are you questioning that? Would you rather have us go unarmed then instead of a fighting chance for deep cover or when doing something klike manual labor? Have you ever tried shoveling things with appendix carry or IWB strongside? OWB even? It's much easier to do it with a simple pocket gun, but of course if you want to take things operator serious then by all means go for it, but you do you though and stay that way please. Seriously as well.
I don't think you quite understand the reason for carrying. It's not for stacking up and doing one man clearing of rooms full of ISIS and antifa. It's for self defense, not going on the offense with. Not for escalating a situation or for not backing down when your life wasn't at risk anymore. Do you even understand the self defense laws where you live even? C'mon friend, lets be friends and live and let live at what others decide to use that's different from you. You're not being affected in any way anyhow, may as well accept it and not denigrate for no other reason than to feel superior about your choices for carrying.
The_Quartermaster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2022
- Messages
- 474
You cannot reason with the operators, there is only way to do things, their way or the highway and no middle ground either.
Agree.
I get to dress as I choose, which is conducive to comfort and concealment. That said...
I've had concealed carry 30+ years and never "needed" it; that doesn't matter when I select the handgun I'll carry in case I have to defend myself.
Fairly easy for me to determine that if I had to defend myself with a handgun I'd rather have a Glock 22 in hand than a LCP 380.
My preference for the Glock 22 in this comparison is location independent; I think it advantageous over a LCP 380 everywhere.
Some people are not willing (or able) to carry a Glock 19/17/22/23 holstered on belt, but I am. (exceptions being push mowing or jogging)
Why are we carrying? "Just in case" we have to defend ourself.
Are some areas inherently greater risk than others? Sure.
Do I want less ASAP potential because I'm standing in a nice spot? No.
Regardless of location, I think a 40 S&W 180 HST (or 124+P/147 HST) has better ASAP potential than whatever 380. (same shot placement, of course)
The reason I'm carrying is to hopefully stop threat(s) before they can inflict serious or lethal injury to me and that is location independent.
It's not that I hate or dislike a LCP 380 its that I'm willing and able to carry something better, "just in case" I have to defend myself.
trackskippy
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,523
I think I have a much better idea as to how this all goes than you seem to think. Ive been doing it on a daily basis for over 45 years now, most of that in NPE's, and in that time, have carried most types of handguns you can think of in trying to figure things out. And thats the part here that many dont seem to want to bother doing. Actually putting in the time and effort to figure it out.
My base rule of thumb here has pretty much always been, carry/use what you shoot best with, as best you can, and work backward from there, should you have to. Not the other way around. Its not hard, especially these days with all the good gear available, to figure out how to comfortably carry full, or near full sized guns, on a full, long day basis, in. pretty much any dress.
If you feel the need to carry a gun, shouldnt it be what you shoot best with and are competent and proficent with?
Ive carried full sized, or near full sized handguns, all day, every day, in office environments (dress pants, shirt and tie) through heavy construction environments (hard labor in places you probably cant imagine). With the right holsters, its not hard or uncomfortable. But, you do have to put in the time and effort to figure things out.
As far as gunfights, haven't been in one, and do my best not to have to get into one. But I do, try and do my best to be as well prepared for that unfortunate event, and constantly work on keeping my skills up with what I carry, and do so on a regular basis. As I said before, carrying a gun is only a small part of this. The important part is, what you can do with it, on-demand, and without thinking about having to do any part of it. This isnt about slow-fire, bullseye type shooting here either.
No one ever seems to want to get into the discussion of how and what they do in regular practice, with and from how they carry, to be at least somewhat prepared for, what I assume is why they are carrying their gun. You usually hear crickets, especially from the pocket carry crowd. How about you? Whats your regular practice regimen in that respect?
Look, Ive always taken this very seriously, and feel its my responsibility to be as close to the top of my game as possible here. I continually work hard at it too. That IS your responsibility when you carry a gun. Im not belittling anyone in their choices, just questioning how they came to the decision, and how hard did they actually try otherwise.
No one is claiming to be an operator here, but from the sounds of things, some are light years ahead of a lot of people when it comes down to actual skills with the guns they choose to carry. I find it interesting you choose to try and belittle those who might strive for that.
This will give you an example of how easy it is to actually carry a more realistic gun. I carried both of these on a daily basis pretty regularly, and once I figured out I could carry the Glock, the Seecamp has been in the safe ever since.
And with those holsters, you can actually carry a larger gun very easily and comfortably. Ive carried a SIG P239 in one in an office/social environment with no trouble at all. Dress type trousers are usually easier for this sort of holster with the larger guns as they are light weight and not as fitted as other types. I tried a pocket holster with my Seecamp and found it to be lacking.
The_Quartermaster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2022
- Messages
- 474
So you concealed carried for 30+ years, that does not give you a subject matter expertise here, it just means you circled the sun 30+ times without having to use it meaning no gun battles, no police or mil profession where a handgun was also your issued sidearm, etc.Agree.
I get to dress as I choose, which is conducive to comfort and concealment. That said...
I've had concealed carry 30+ years and never "needed" it; that doesn't matter when I select the handgun I'll carry in case I have to defend myself.
Fairly easy for me to determine that if I had to defend myself with a handgun I'd rather have a Glock 22 in hand than a LCP 380.
My preference for the Glock 22 in this comparison is location independent; I think it advantageous over a LCP 380 everywhere.
Some people are not willing (or able) to carry a Glock 19/17/22/23 holstered on belt, but I am. (exceptions being push mowing or jogging)
Why are we carrying? "Just in case" we have to defend ourself.
Are some areas inherently greater risk than others? Sure.
Do I want less ASAP potential because I'm standing in a nice spot? No.
Regardless of location, I think a 40 S&W 180 HST (or 124+P/147 HST) has better ASAP potential than whatever 380. (same shot placement, of course)
The reason I'm carrying is to hopefully stop threat(s) before they can inflict serious or lethal injury to me and that is location independent.
It's not that I hate or dislike a LCP 380 its that I'm willing and able to carry something better, "just in case" I have to defend myself.
And I did ask you for proof that you actually knew what you were talking about, so far you didn't and have avoid answering these pertinent questions. This looks poorly on you by the way.
We carry for the last resort to defend ourselves with. You are free to carry how you see fit for yourself and only yourself. But until you can verify yourself as a vetted expert in this, then it's just talk, not a great talk, but a talk using appeals to the unknown and that's all.
tl;dr? Cool, you made it known more than once of your distaste for the LCP and pocket guns in general. We heard you. No one here is trying to make you carry one. But we are educating you on why we sometimes carry one. Please listen, you may actually learn something here as this is an information sharing board.
trackskippy
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,523
Maybe you should take your own advice.
It appears sharing something that goes against what the masses have been conditioned believe, isnt worth learning.
The_Quartermaster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2022
- Messages
- 474
Your first mistake was using an appeal to an authority argument. You can't use that without being vetted as a real SME.I think I have a much better idea as to how this all goes than you seem to think. Ive been doing it on a daily basis for over 45 years now, most of that in NPE's, and in that time, have carried most types of handguns you can think of in trying to figure things out. And thats the part here that many dont seem to want to bother doing. Actually putting in the time and effort to figure it out.
My base rule of thumb here has pretty much always been, carry/use what you shoot best with, as best you can, and work backward from there, should you have to. Not the other way around. Its not hard, especially these days with all the good gear available, to figure out how to comfortably carry full, or near full sized guns, on a full, long day basis, in. pretty much any dress.
If you feel the need to carry a gun, shouldnt it be what you shoot best with and are competent and proficent with?
Ive carried full sized, or near full sized handguns, all day, every day, in office environments (dress pants, shirt and tie) through heavy construction environments (hard labor in places you probably cant imagine). With the right holsters, its not hard or uncomfortable. But, you do have to put in the time and effort to figure things out.
As far as gunfights, haven't been in one, and do my best not to have to get into one. But I do, try and do my best to be as well prepared for that unfortunate event, and constantly work on keeping my skills up with what I carry, and do so on a regular basis. As I said before, carrying a gun is only a small part of this. The important part is, what you can do with it, on-demand, and without thinking about having to do any part of it. This isnt about slow-fire, bullseye type shooting here either.
No one ever seems to want to get into the discussion of how and what they do in regular practice, with and from how they carry, to be at least somewhat prepared for, what I assume is why they are carrying their gun. You usually hear crickets, especially from the pocket carry crowd. How about you? Whats your regular practice regimen in that respect?
Look, Ive always taken this very seriously, and feel its my responsibility to be as close to the top of my game as possible here. I continually work hard at it too. That IS your responsibility when you carry a gun. Im not belittling anyone in their choices, just questioning how they came to the decision, and how hard did they actually try otherwise.
No one is claiming to be an operator here, but from the sounds of things, some are light years ahead of a lot of people when it comes down to actual skills with the guns they choose to carry. I find it interesting you choose to try and belittle those who might strive for that.
This will give you an example of how easy it is to actually carry a more realistic gun. I carried both of these on a daily basis pretty regularly, and once I figured out I could carry the Glock, the Seecamp has been in the safe ever since.
View attachment 1110060
And with those holsters, you can actually carry a larger gun very easily and comfortably. Ive carried a SIG P239 in one in an office/social environment with no trouble at all. Dress type trousers are usually easier for this sort of holster with the larger guns as they are light weight and not as fitted as other types. I tried a pocket holster with my Seecamp and found it to be lacking.
You carry what carries well and shoots the best in your hands, your answer and whole response is a false decree on this matter.
I carry based on the RA, and I shoot and carry all of mine well. Even go to matches where an EDC is highly suggested. You see, I like knowing what my tools and gear do when the rubber meets the road. And I carry what is also comfortable to me, the fallacy that with the "right holster you can carry anything" is not true and I will educate you on this important fact. Every holster I have either tried or been told was the one ended up being garbage. Then after a time when I went from a full to a compact, still more of the same nonsense, total discomfort and it was printing. Then one day I got into the compact game and now I could finally carry appendix and but I was still printing and I could not carry all day without some discomfort. So I moved on to single stack compacts. Finally I had found the one. No more printing, best carry position all day without so much of an itch or a need to adjust or tuck back in. So I am telling you that the narrative you subscribe to is simply not true and really only applies to yourself. Body types are all different here, you left that out too and that's another way of telling that there's superimposing going on. Please don't, it's not being honest.
So by your admittance, you have no real subject matter expertise here. That's a sign that you should never talk down anyone's choices that isn't your own because you don't even meet the criteria to be a subject expert on said subject. I don't know you from me but I can speak from a real authority that after 21 years in, I thought that I was another expert in marksmanship. Ya, that wasn't true at all. I became humbled by showing up at the Arena and being shown what I couldn't do by Ash Hess. I learned that 3 combat tours and 21 years with some of it returning actual fire when shot at, in that what I had thought was known, was not after just one 40 hour carbine course at Gunsite. So I am personally telling you that unless you know know the deal because you personally have seen that elephant, all you can do is speculate and using fallacies without so much as one real bit of an experience to backup your talking down. No offense meant but if I see the talking down and no true experiences to back that up with, then I'm going to ignore the ignorance being displayed.
Reality is a harsh cruel mistress. Take it as serious as you want, but that's your lane of fire for you and only you which is my entire point here.
If you are not a real expert and you haven't faced having to draw and use, then you are not even a lightyear in front, a step backwards yes, but certainly not in front as it was you and the other operator with zero experiences to be vetted who were the ones doing the belittling of others for their choices. All you both had to say was no or yes we hate it because it's not ideal for what we prefer in an EDC or to the like. Totally fair to say IMO and it answers the OP without trying to use as a stepping board for an EDC my way or the highway for you all type of an agenda.
Your pictures mean zilch to me because I am not your supervisor. You are free to carry what you deem fit to chose as so, just as I am free to do according to my own needs and none of it requires a negotiation from those who think that they have a vote (you do not get a vote) in this matter.
Last edited:
trackskippy
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,523
LOL. OK gotcha. Youre the expert, and we are not. Got any good war story shootouts you survived in all those tours where your pocket gun saved the day? Always love those stories. Well, actually not, and Im pretty good at spotting the BS, so be careful now.
And I really could care less what you did where. Ive known and shot with a lot of "combat vets" over the years, and most talked a good game but seemed to always have forgotten more than they supposedly learned when asked to show you.
As Ive already said, this isnt about "hate" here, its about practical, actual "experience" and education learned from it, with both the pocket guns, and others. "My" experience, actually carrying things on a daily basis, I found I didnt have to compromise what I carried, and could in fact, easily carry something more realistic. And that works well for me. You do you.
But of course, you people who are mad about your narrative being questioned, ain't having any of that!
If all you want to do is carry something like an LCP, by all means, knock yourself out. I could care less. All Ive ever said al along here was, you dont "have" to, if you choose otherwise. Its the "I cant" part of the replies that Im addressing here. Is it "you cant", or is it, "I just dont want to"? If its the latter, thats fine, just say that. Just dont tell people "you/they cant", especially if youve never bothered to try and figure it out.
And you never did answer my question. What is your regular, and as realistic as possible, pocket gun practice routine since you seem to want to defend them so heavily? Do you run the same course of fire you do with your other guns? Or do you do something else? Just trying to get a feel on your true expert status here.
And I really could care less what you did where. Ive known and shot with a lot of "combat vets" over the years, and most talked a good game but seemed to always have forgotten more than they supposedly learned when asked to show you.
As Ive already said, this isnt about "hate" here, its about practical, actual "experience" and education learned from it, with both the pocket guns, and others. "My" experience, actually carrying things on a daily basis, I found I didnt have to compromise what I carried, and could in fact, easily carry something more realistic. And that works well for me. You do you.
But of course, you people who are mad about your narrative being questioned, ain't having any of that!
If all you want to do is carry something like an LCP, by all means, knock yourself out. I could care less. All Ive ever said al along here was, you dont "have" to, if you choose otherwise. Its the "I cant" part of the replies that Im addressing here. Is it "you cant", or is it, "I just dont want to"? If its the latter, thats fine, just say that. Just dont tell people "you/they cant", especially if youve never bothered to try and figure it out.
And you never did answer my question. What is your regular, and as realistic as possible, pocket gun practice routine since you seem to want to defend them so heavily? Do you run the same course of fire you do with your other guns? Or do you do something else? Just trying to get a feel on your true expert status here.
The_Quartermaster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2022
- Messages
- 474
Then share something when you actually know it from firsthand experience then, otherwise you are just speculating parroted things from all the other parrots who as collective whole, still don't have that experience to justify either.Maybe you should take your own advice.
It appears sharing something that goes against what the masses have been conditioned believe, isnt worth learning.
Last edited:
The_Quartermaster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2022
- Messages
- 474
The real experts don't speak and talk down while denigrating.LOL. OK gotcha. Youre the expert, and we are not. Got any good war story shootouts you survived in all those tours where your pocket gun saved the day? Always love those stories. Well, actually not, and Im pretty good at spotting the BS, so be careful now.
And I really could care less what you did where. Ive known and shot with a lot of "combat vets" over the years, and most talked a good game but seemed to always have forgotten more than they supposedly learned when asked to show you.
As Ive already said, this isnt about "hate" here, its about practical, actual "experience" and education learned from it, with both the pocket guns, and others. "My" experience, actually carrying things on a daily basis, I found I didnt have to compromise what I carried, and could in fact, easily carry something more realistic. And that works well for me. You do you.
But of course, you people who are mad about your narrative being questioned, ain't having any of that!
If all you want to do is carry something like an LCP, by all means, knock yourself out. I could care less. All Ive ever said al along here was, you dont "have" to, if you choose otherwise. Its the "I cant" part of the replies that Im addressing here. Is it "you cant", or is it, "I just dont want to"? If its the latter, thats fine, just say that. Just dont tell people "you/they cant", especially if youve never bothered to try and figure it out.
And you never did answer my question. What is your regular, and as realistic as possible, pocket gun practice routine since you seem to want to defend them so heavily? Do you run the same course of fire you do with your other guns? Or do you do something else? Just trying to get a feel on your true expert status here.
And I am no expert and never claimed to be but when space shuttle door gunnery is afoot, well it does raise some questions about the "knowledge" one is pretending to have.
And you are trying to mock me, that's an ad hominem, thank you for validating that you are out of your lane and just commenting and not based from actual subject matter expertise.
Thank you for validating that appeals to authority figures never turn out to be true. You are making this very easy for me.
Another thank you for admitting that you do not have the experience to justify listening to you while talking down other's choices. Space shuttle gunnery confirmed.
You're failing to realize is that it's not up to you to try to manipulate saying falsely that there's another way. Not all situations, wear of clothing, time of year, circumstances, body styles, etc., allow for that. Anything other is superimposing and as said before, please do not because you're not being honest about this discussion when you are trying to force the issue with others. Had you not done any of that, I would not have questioned your integrity on the EDC issue of what gun and what type of carry.
This issue isn't about can't or don't want to, the issue is about you wanting to superimpose again. Are you always this insufferable when folks don't want a semiauto handgun, only prefer a revolver, or can't do a nine because they don't want to add another caliber? Sheesh.
trackskippy
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,523
What? My first hand experience carrying and shooting the guns doesnt count? What do you base yours on?
Ive spent decades actually carrying guns of all types in NPE's on a daily basis where I would have been arrested and/or lost my job if found out. Does that count as having some expereince?
Ive also made it a point to shoot what I carry, on a weekly basis, and from how I carry it. Everything gets vetted in as realistic way as possible. I just dont stand there and pop cans in the yard or bullseye targets at my leisure.
Once you start actually shooting things like the LCP, Seecamp, S&W 642, etc, from a pocket, or other deeper concealed holster, and do it while you're moving as you go, and have to engage more than one target, it becomes very obvious, those guns are lacking. Its hard enough just getting a good grip on it to get it into action, and then trying to shoot quickly and accurately with it. The larger guns are just much easier, and make a major difference there.
Prior to covid and the associated shortages, I was shooting right around 25K of just 9mm a year. These days, its around 15K. I usually shoot 200-300 rounds a week from the guns I carry. When Im not shooting, I dry-fire mutiple guns in practice every day as well. How serious are you about all this?
WisBorn
Contributing Member
@Mr. Mosin I agree that there is a segment of the gun community that will hate on segments of the community. The CCW/CWP crowd needs to stand together. I have a LCPII a couple of J frames, a Bond Arms Rowdy, a Taurus 605. One of those 5 guns is going to be in my front pocket every place I legally can. I have other handguns I carry, but only as a backup to the one in my pocket.
As far as the LCPII I like the small lightweight size with an ample cartridge for defense. I would like to add a LCP Max to the rotation. The primary reasons being better sights, a better extractor, and slightly thicker grip. The extra rounds would just be a bonus.
I often think what situation would I get myself into that would require more than 5 rounds to defend myself and escape from a bad situation.
As far as the LCPII I like the small lightweight size with an ample cartridge for defense. I would like to add a LCP Max to the rotation. The primary reasons being better sights, a better extractor, and slightly thicker grip. The extra rounds would just be a bonus.
I often think what situation would I get myself into that would require more than 5 rounds to defend myself and escape from a bad situation.
one wrap of gorilla tape around the grip that covers the mag release button is working out real well for me. my lcpII stays in my left pocket (i am right handed) and that durn button used to eject the mag all the time. good-to-go so far.
luck,
murf
I own both. The 9mm version is shootable, but the .380 version leaves it in the dust when I tested them with a timer. A few months ago when it was the craze I ran some "Dicken Drills" with both. (10 shots in 12 seconds from IWB concealment with a USPSA target at 40 yards.) My standard P365 9mm wears a Holosun 507K X2 on it and has about 7,000 rounds through it, while the .380 was in stock configuration with iron sights and had about 200 rounds through it at the time. With the 9mm, I couldn't come close to beating 12 seconds with no misses. My best time was 14.61 with 2A, 4C, 3D and 1 miss. My best.380 time with no misses was 12.17 with 3A, 5C, and 2D. My fastest .380 time was a 9.41 with 2 misses but 4A, 3C and 1D. The recoil difference really slowed me down with the 9mm and impacted my accuracy.
You are correct that the size difference is negligible. The .380 slide is a little smaller. The .380 is 20% lighter. I don't have enough rounds through the .380 to give it an unqualified recommendation, but I can see it being an awesome gun for the occasional shooter who wants one all-around handgun for self-defense.
(If anyone has run the drill with an LCP or an LCP MAX, I would love to hear the results. From my limited experience with the MAX, I'd be hard pressed to shoot it with no misses using a sundial as a timer.)
you do not speak for me and never will.
personal attacks are not welcome here (hint: read the code of conduct).
murf
The_Quartermaster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2022
- Messages
- 474
No, they only count for what you prefer based on your past experiences but not for anyone else. This is all being based on reality. Not the narrative being spoken or your appeal to use yourself falsely as an authority figure. I asked of you your certifications that make you a subject matter expert. You freely admitted that you had none, not even an actual gunfight yet you've been trying to talk down the entire time as IF you were in one and sharing real life lessons learned. Range time isn't street time, never will be. However shooting matches that puts stress on you and taking courses is a good start to understand things a bit better at your level and not anyone else's but yours.
You didn't get vetted on the most important thing, real world experience. What you do on your time to stay proficient is on you, maintaining proficiency doesn't equate to mastery of this topic of what should and should not be carried for an EDC.
Lacking? Really? Links provided but I'll cut & paste the pertinent parts proving that you still have nio idea what you are talking about.
https://www.corrections1.com/illino...-shoots-teen-during-robbery-VXLjHXyzxCLL0Eqd/
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news...rate-south-side-shootings-20140210-story.html
Edited video obviously but if dug deep enough you can find the actual one. What happened there and what you said would happen are two far different events. I'm going to side with the reality and not what you based yours on using ignorance.
Had you tried to explain that what you do is based on yourself mitigating what you think are risks, then you may have had an argument. But you didn't, using an appeal to ignorance as your argument chock full of false equivalencies.
I am not lacking shooting my Mustang or defending myself with one god forbid should it occur because I know what it can do and what it cannot do. But it's obvious you struggle and make it known. That's superimposing, I keep reminding you of that.
I'm serious enough to know a space shuttle door gunner telling fishing tales when I see them being said, and I only go by round counts when it's a course requirement. I load up mags, which is a lot, put them in one of my range bags, and do what I feel needs to be maintained or worked on until it's done right by my standards which is harder on myself. I have zero need to keep track of things to flex on others because truth be told, I know my lane and only worry about myself. Take the advice here, worry about you and your way and let others do it their way or learn for themselves. As for this thread, you dislike carrying the LCP or the other pocket guns. We know, it's ad nauseam on a loop. It still won't change minds especially since you revealed that you don't have that experience to back up what you're pontificating with.
The_Quartermaster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2022
- Messages
- 474
Weird flex, but okay then?
I didn't use a personal attack, but you are attacking me with that false accusation of yours. Perhaps we should read it side by side them just to be sure of it.
I think I have a much better idea as to how this all goes than you seem to think. Ive been doing it on a daily basis for over 45 years now, most of that in NPE's, and in that time, have carried most types of handguns you can think of in trying to figure things out. And thats the part here that many dont seem to want to bother doing. Actually putting in the time and effort to figure it out.
My base rule of thumb here has pretty much always been, carry/use what you shoot best with, as best you can, and work backward from there, should you have to. Not the other way around. Its not hard, especially these days with all the good gear available, to figure out how to comfortably carry full, or near full sized guns, on a full, long day basis, in. pretty much any dress.
If you feel the need to carry a gun, shouldnt it be what you shoot best with and are competent and proficent with?
Ive carried full sized, or near full sized handguns, all day, every day, in office environments (dress pants, shirt and tie) through heavy construction environments (hard labor in places you probably cant imagine). With the right holsters, its not hard or uncomfortable. But, you do have to put in the time and effort to figure things out.
As far as gunfights, haven't been in one, and do my best not to have to get into one. But I do, try and do my best to be as well prepared for that unfortunate event, and constantly work on keeping my skills up with what I carry, and do so on a regular basis. As I said before, carrying a gun is only a small part of this. The important part is, what you can do with it, on-demand, and without thinking about having to do any part of it. This isnt about slow-fire, bullseye type shooting here either.
No one ever seems to want to get into the discussion of how and what they do in regular practice, with and from how they carry, to be at least somewhat prepared for, what I assume is why they are carrying their gun. You usually hear crickets, especially from the pocket carry crowd. How about you? Whats your regular practice regimen in that respect?
Look, Ive always taken this very seriously, and feel its my responsibility to be as close to the top of my game as possible here. I continually work hard at it too. That IS your responsibility when you carry a gun. Im not belittling anyone in their choices, just questioning how they came to the decision, and how hard did they actually try otherwise.
No one is claiming to be an operator here, but from the sounds of things, some are light years ahead of a lot of people when it comes down to actual skills with the guns they choose to carry. I find it interesting you choose to try and belittle those who might strive for that.
This will give you an example of how easy it is to actually carry a more realistic gun. I carried both of these on a daily basis pretty regularly, and once I figured out I could carry the Glock, the Seecamp has been in the safe ever since.
View attachment 1110060
And with those holsters, you can actually carry a larger gun very easily and comfortably. Ive carried a SIG P239 in one in an office/social environment with no trouble at all. Dress type trousers are usually easier for this sort of holster with the larger guns as they are light weight and not as fitted as other types. I tried a pocket holster with my Seecamp and found it to be lacking.
I tuned out of the little debate you guys are having but those little crotch holsters are great. Concealment is superb. You can still run on a daily basis if needed. And they are very friendly to bathroom useage. Just a great design unless you have a gut or wear your pants to tight. You can practically carry anywhere with one of those rigs. Nobody ever talks about those holsters.
trackskippy
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,523
The Smart Carry holsters are one of the most versatile holsters I have and use, and I have a number of them. You can literally carry in a pair of shorts with no shirt, and no one is the wiser.
And youre right, you rarely hear anyone talk about them. And when they do, its usually in the negative and with comments that show no experience with them to know.
And youre right, you rarely hear anyone talk about them. And when they do, its usually in the negative and with comments that show no experience with them to know.
Agree.
I get to dress as I choose, which is conducive to comfort and concealment. That said...
I've had concealed carry 30+ years and never "needed" it; that doesn't matter when I select the handgun I'll carry in case I have to defend myself.
Fairly easy for me to determine that if I had to defend myself with a handgun I'd rather have a Glock 22 in hand than a LCP 380.
My preference for the Glock 22 in this comparison is location independent; I think it advantageous over a LCP 380 everywhere.
Some people are not willing (or able) to carry a Glock 19/17/22/23 holstered on belt, but I am. (exceptions being push mowing or jogging)
Why are we carrying? "Just in case" we have to defend ourself.
Are some areas inherently greater risk than others? Sure.
Do I want less ASAP potential because I'm standing in a nice spot? No.
Regardless of location, I think a 40 S&W 180 HST (or 124+P/147 HST) has better ASAP potential than whatever 380. (same shot placement, of course)
The reason I'm carrying is to hopefully stop threat(s) before they can inflict serious or lethal injury to me and that is location independent.
It's not that I hate or dislike a LCP 380 its that I'm willing and able to carry something better, "just in case" I have to defend myself.
My reply (post) was not in response nor directed toward you. My reply (post) in agreement with someone else was undeserving of a personal attack from you.
In that post, nowhere do I claim to be an expert; I said what I do and why. Spoiler alert, I'm going to keep doing that in subsequent posts in other threads.
I'm not sure why you think I owe you any information beyond what you may read in my over 2k posts here, because I don't.
This thread is about Ruger LCP and pocket gun hatred in general and my post addressed that; I don't hate them, as I said in last sentence. tl:dr back at you.
I chose to reply to you in a courteous manner though your personal attack on me didn't merit it; do it to me again and I'll just report it.
trackskippy
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,523
Whatever. Just out of curiosity, and debate team stuff aside, whats your actual experience here, since no one elses seems to qualify? Why should we believe anything you try and tell us? We haven't seen any of your proof of experience. Just a lot of rambling babble.
As hard as you keep attacking anything I say here, and all the "pontificating" on your part, Im getting a distinct impression, youre playing the Democrat playbook here and trying to put your, insecurity, lack of experience, and whatever else on to me.
- Status
