Ruger LCP And General Pocket Gun Hatred

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Couldnt agree more. You would think at least Ammo manufacturers would produce inexpensive lower recoil practice loads for people (especially new shooters) to become comfortable with. There is a pretty common tendncy for people to buy these pocket 380s... shoot them once... realize they dont like the snap and carry it anyways.

Strange thing is a lot of these pocket 380s could go 32acp with a simple barrel and recoil spring change. I get kind of irritated at the laziness of Gun Manufacturers and designers these days. It was not the case in the 80s and 90s. Heck...even the Lorcins were available in multiple calibers.

Its not to late though. Nothing is stopping Ruger from ofering the LCP in 25 and 32. Same goes for the Bodyguard in 32Acp. Its not like these companies dont have the funds. Sometimes its about market presence even if the sales dont reach the mark of superstardom. Keltec p32s seem to still sell very well.

Unfortunately, .32 ACP is on the same path as .32 Mag and .327 Mag in the USA. As a owner of .32 ACP guns and one .32 Mag gun, it's a bit disheartening. But buyer's have spoken over the last 20 years and .380 and 9mm small gun sales are where it's at.

The gun below was bought by me 10 years ago. It is one out of the last batch of TCP732s. At least Taurus gave it a shot, but the sales just weren't there compared to the .380 versions.

Pic from when new. A tilt barrel design, by the way.
View attachment 1109293

Tilt barrel versus blowback. I sold the gun on the right. I still have the lowly Taurus because it works.
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I think it is an improvement, depending on the cartridge*. Locked breech tilt barrel centerfire designs that were made from the start as a pocket gun are very reliable in my experience.

Not to mention that they typically are more tolerant of slight "limp wristing" than blowback pocket guns which need a stiffer hold with no slippage of that hold. That recoil spring in a blowback pocket gun is stronger than in a similarly sized tilt barrel gun, and your hand/wrist/arm better be stiff as a board to have the slide to travel far enough for a clean eject and feed cycle.

Plus the fact that the a tilt barrel gun's chamber lowers to align with the cartridge coming out of the magazine.

*I'm speaking of .32 ACP and .380 ACP proportioned cartridges in LCP sized guns. Not long and skinny rimfire cartridges.

Depends on how small you are trying to get. No reason not to have both. A pocket pistol on a gas delay (which is what I would try) would still give you the fixed barrel (better accuracy) lower recoil impulse, softer recoil spring etc. and still allow the low parts count. You could also try a rotating barrel system to go another route.

If you ever get a chance try out a Walther CCP M2 in 380acp. Not a pocket gun of course but it will give you an idea. Very soft shooters and even An aluminum slide for less weight (I would use titanium). A pocket size version of the 380acp CCP would be very interesting. Of course it would need to be true DAO (along with Titanium slide) but you get the idea.

Problem is everyone just kind of ripped off the Keltec P3AT and nobody really came up with their own design. Pistol Designers are kinda lazy. Kelgren is one of the few creative trendsetters out there these days. I am not a fan of most recent Keltecs but his impact on the industry is pretty massive and he is a creative guy. His older stuff was brilliant IMO.
 
32acp will cycle back around eventually. Same for 25acp. People still like pocket autos. Its just going to take something new to bring it back into the fray. We are just in strange times right now where anything below a 9mm that holds less than 10-12 rounds is looked at like a useless CCW.

Taurus has a nasty habit of discontinueing pistols way too early. Those 732s were never really given a fair shake. Funny thing is Keltec cut the P3at but has kept the P32. George is no dummy. If the dopes at Ruger ever wake up they will realize they need to make a 25acp version of the LCP22. There are a lot of people that actually carry the LCP22 for CCW... a rimfire for gods sake! JMB is rolling in his grave. Ruger has tons of money. If they were smart there would be an LCP25 just for market presence alone. That entire segment of the market is basically just sitting there empty free for the taking. Meanwhiile people are getting in bidding wars for a Beretta 950BS for a small pocket 25acp and paying crazy prices

25 pocket pistols always sold well in the past even well after the 380 craze they were just dominated by the ring of fire manufacturers. Most of them have faced so many legal problems that the market is wide open for whomever decides to grab it. Pheonix Arms would do well to bring back the Raven in a polymer frame... they would fly off the shelves in the $125-$150 range.

I sound like a pocket pistol fanatic but I am really not. My favorite is Magnum powered autoloaders. There are not a whole lot of firearms or cartridges I dont like though.

32 revolvers will come back as well. Someone just needs to scale the revolvers down instead of chambering full size snub nose revolvers in 32. Pocket carriers dont want all that bulk.

I will respectfully disagree (I think we are disagreeing) on the simple blowback. Its a far more reliable system. Thats how little cheap Zamak 25s and even Hi-points can be so simple, use innexpensive materials, and opperate to well. All those pistols are based of the Raven because its an excellent and reliable design...even when extremely dry and dirty. They dont even need slide rails. The design is rideculed on the internet of course but its pretty brilliant. Most of the best and most reliable sub-machine guns in history opperate off simple blowback because it simply works and holds up... submachine guns take a hell of a beating. Its not just machine guns though... look at the Makarov with its legendary reliability with any ammo... simple blowback.

Not sure how you could induce a jam with a simple blowback and not have it leave your hand from holding it so light. It would have to be severly over sprung in the recoil spring. That or some monster slide weight..maybe something like a Hi-point CF380. If thats happening on a pocket auto there is something else going on.. maybe extractor clearance issues. Anyhing 22lr of course is a whole nother animal due to Ammunition variables.

Nice 32s by the way. I would not have sold either of those. The little 32 NAA gaurdians are nice pistols
 
Straight blowback gets a bad wrap these days. However... once you dial the pistols in they are far more reliable. Recoil is harsh yes but in an actual encounter I will choose it over the locked breach pistols. Feeding and extraction are far more trouble free in straight blowback. Most dont even need an extractor. Feeding wise the locked breach guns have to cram a lot more into a small space and that often ends up being steeper angles on the feedramps that can create all sorts of problems. Also less parts having to work properly in terms of timing. Also better accuracy typically because of the fixed barrel. So before people completly just ditch the long vetted simple blowback system on pocket pistols its best to consider the benefits of the design.

Those AMTs were not too bad once they were tuned. Have to use the proper lube (stainless on stainless = Rig+p grease) and make sure the magazine was reliable. There are some bad mags out there floating around for AMTs. They are hard kickers yes. Not the worst but not deffinitly not range pistols if you are recoil sensitive or have wrist problems. That was never the intent of the pistol though.

RM380 is a nice pistol IMO. Its a shame remington went down and the design has been squashed. Based of the 9mm roughbough and chambered in 380 the pistols are pretty stout and easy to shoot well in 380. DAO system is perfect for that style of pistol. Its one of the few that check all the boxes for me I just dont have one yet. Same for the Pico. I was kind of waiting for a stainless RM380 and a 32acp Pico and then the guns went poof. Hopefully Beretta has a Pico 2.0 in the works.

NAA gaurdians and Seecamps are nasty little buggers to shoot. They need a heavier slide but the appeal of those pistols is the size so doing so would defeat the whole purpose. People just have to accept them the way they are or move on. I like them personally but they are deffinitly not for everyone. Quality is there and they are well designed though.....Just have to accept that they are harsh to shoot. Derringers are not a whole lot of fun either BTW (not a huge fan of those).

I like my Beretta Tomcat which does not have an extractor. Wish they made a 45 ACP version of the Tomcat! :)

A neighbor has an AMT Backup .45 ACP. It is a nice looking gun, metal frame, DAO, no safety, compact, everything I like in a semi-auto. I want one, but researching it I learn they are mostly junk but for a few here and there that are good. Still want one and would likely buy one if I ran across it.

I got rid of my Seacamp. Was too unruly, jammed too much, too small for my hand. I have much better time shooting my Kel Tec P32 which is not much bigger. I got the Seacamp partly because it is all metal. Not a big fan of plastic.

Thanks for posting this. The advantages of straight blowback are worth consideration.
 
I wonder that, too, and for a number of reasons.

1) 9mm's keep getting smaller. I used to carry a .380; I traded that in for a Kahr 9mm. Same size package, same round count, less weight (not really fair... it was a steel-framed .380...) and more power.
2) No fun. People buy them and, after shooting them, realize they really aren't any fun to shoot. A challenge? Yes. Fun? Not so much. I used to carry an AMT DAO .380... I speak from experience.
What .380 were you carrying that was the same size as a Kahr 9mm? Also, how is it that as the 9mm's get as small as the pocket .380's shooting a more powerful caliber, yet they are more fun to shoot when they would have more recoil?
3) Impracticality... other than being a very compact pocket pistol, they aren't much else, in much the same way, for example, a BFR is impractical other than it's role as a hunting pistol, or range toy.
If all someone was looking for was a pocket pistol, what makes the .380 impractical?
4) Current laws. As more and more states open up to licensed carry, or constitutional carry, the need for a deep concealment pistol is waning.
So previously if someone wanted to carry in NYC, all they needed to break the law there was to buy a pocket .380? This makes no sense, the laws on carrying have no impact on what gun you choose to carry unless there's something to the effect of printing is illegal, but those are few and there are larger options that can be carried concealed in ways to reduce printing, but the reason people buy pocket .380's has been and largely is because they're small and light, not due to any laws.
 
I like my Beretta Tomcat which does not have an extractor. Wish they made a 45 ACP version of the Tomcat! :)

A neighbor has an AMT Backup .45 ACP. It is a nice looking gun, metal frame, DAO, no safety, compact, everything I like in a semi-auto. I want one, but researching it I learn they are mostly junk but for a few here and there that are good. Still want one and would likely buy one if I ran across it.

I got rid of my Seacamp. Was too unruly, jammed too much, too small for my hand. I have much better time shooting my Kel Tec P32 which is not much bigger. I got the Seacamp partly because it is all metal. Not a big fan of plastic.

Thanks for posting this. The advantages of straight blowback are worth consideration.

HaHa. No you dont. A 45acp version of the Tomcat would have to be larger than an HK VP70Z. Actually... that might be pretty cool.

AMT 45 is locked barrel (thank God!). The ones that run from the factory were a crap shoot. Seems like the fitting suffered more the longer they were around. People that have them working often figured them out, or found a decent smith that understood how to get them running. Neat pistols but they are about as pocket friendly as a detonics pocket nine (also a neat heavy steel pistol). Backup 45 is more of a small simple primary than a back up pistol.

Yeah the seecamp 32 is kinda too small in 32 for me as well. If I ever finally buy a Seecamp it will likely be a 25acp so I can comfortable shoot it on occasion. NAA Guardians are a little bigger and I dont mind shooting 32 in them.

Be nice if Kellgren put out an option for the P32 in an all aluminum frame like he is offering for the new P15. Hes axed 3 pistols in the last couple years and opted to keep the p32 so maybe he has something in mind for it.

Keep your pocket guns clean and lubed and provided its dialed in/well vetted and you will be fine in the rare occurance that you might actually have to use it. Im just finicky about things. I like simplicity. If you maintain and inspect things periodically any signs of failure points typically show up before a major problem occurs.

Maybe check out the discontinued Remington RM380. Those are steel and aluminum. DAO.. well built for 380acp. Pretty similar in operation to the AMT backup 45.

I think the DAO S&W Bodyguard is highly underated but those are polymer framed. Ergos on the bodyguard are very nice compared to most of the pocket pistols.
 
A couple of things about the micro 380's:

1) If you don't practice with them very much, you won't shoot them well. (surprise)

2) If it beats your hand up, you will develop a flinch if you shoot too many rounds in a session.

Seems best to shoot a couple few magazines per range visit. My hands are XXL, but if I hold it just right, it doesn't nick my hands anywhere.

They are very useful handguns if you can shoot them well. I'm a mediocre shot in general, but I'm actually pretty decent with them by now. It just takes time and effort.
 
Eh, had an LCP and it was fine. Reasonable shooter considering the size. So I don’t have an issue with it, but I don’t pocket carry.

My body type is blessed with muscular legs so even when my pants have roomy pockets, anything in them print if I want to have a waistline that remotely fits, so even an LCP doesn’t really work all that better than something like a 365 (Read: doesn’t work) so I’ve accepted belt carry is the best concealment method for me (also belt guns shoot better) and therefore I just use bigger guns.

I had been thinking about another LCP for shorts or sweatpants days but my 365xl is light enough it clips on fine and conceals even on sweatpants fine so I didn’t bother.


YMMV
 
What .380 were you carrying that was the same size as a Kahr 9mm? Also, how is it that as the 9mm's get as small as the pocket .380's shooting a more powerful caliber, yet they are more fun to shoot when they would have more recoil?

As I stated... a Colt's Government .380...

QtcoEFIm.jpg

That's my CW9, the CM9 would be smaller than the .380, except in width.


If all someone was looking for was a pocket pistol, what makes the .380 impractical?

Read what I said, again. Face it, a micro .380 isn't a range pistol, it's not a target pistol, it's not a hunting pistol... it is not practical for those purposes... but it is practical if your purpose is a pocket or deep concealment pistol.

So previously if someone wanted to carry in NYC, all they needed to break the law there was to buy a pocket .380? This makes no sense, the laws on carrying have no impact on what gun you choose to carry unless there's something to the effect of printing is illegal, but those are few and there are larger options that can be carried concealed in ways to reduce printing, but the reason people buy pocket .380's has been and largely is because they're small and light, not due to any laws.

Actually, you bring up an interesting point. When I carried my AMT .380, I needed a small pistol because I was not licensed to carry at the time, and I went places with it that were illegal to do so... hence my need for a very small pistol. Further, here in Texas, it WAS illegal to print or flash if you were licensed for concealed carry, and that was one of the reasons I carried my smaller CM9 in an IWB holster. Now that TX has fixed that... I don't care about printing or flashing.... and I carry my larger CW9 in a OWB holster. I would not voluntarily choose a 'small and light' pistol that was so small and light I couldn't draw, present, and shoot well over a larger pistol, I stated as much in a previous post in this thread.

As far as your last point, in highlights above, if you are licensed to carry, or live in a state where carry is legal (Constitutional carry...) why would you limit yourself to a pocket .380? The convenience of 'small and light,' to use your words, comes at the price of accessibility and performance. You want to carry a tiny pistol in your pocket, it's better than nothing, but you cannot tell me it's as good as a larger pistol in an accessible holster at the hand. The caveat to that is, of course, those that carry where concealability is paramount... for whatever reason... or they cannot carry a larger pistol... for whatever reason.
 
They can't compete with the marketing of Ruger for essentially the same gun as the .380 LCP.

So far they still have a monopoly on almost the same gun in .32.

I think it has more to do with Keltec manufacturing capability. As far as I know they still make runs of firearms. Kellgren just has more ideas than he does the capacity to keep them going so he streamlined things a bit to focus on getting the production higher on the higher demand stuff. At least there are lots of the discontinued pistols in circulation though so there is that.

Kellgren wears a lot of hats. Sometimes I wish he would just design pistols and sell them off to other manufacturers. He is a true gun enthusiest at heart IMO but has to juggle the business side and there are only so many hours in the day. Ruger is massive and opperates completely dfferently. Kellgren is a rare gem in firearms these days. I cant even recall him ever being litigious about others copying him.... and he sure could have been.

Kellgren may even welcome copycats it in some ways. People can call it a Ruger LCP all they want but its really just a Kellgren LCP. Lind of like when people refer to the Browning 1911 regardless of where or who made it. Same goes for the Kellgren P11.... lots of people copied that design within just a few years after its introduction and still are to this day.
 
A couple of things about the micro 380's:

1) If you don't practice with them very much, you won't shoot them well. (surprise)

2) If it beats your hand up, you will develop a flinch if you shoot too many rounds in a session.

Seems best to shoot a couple few magazines per range visit. My hands are XXL, but if I hold it just right, it doesn't nick my hands anywhere.

They are very useful handguns if you can shoot them well. I'm a mediocre shot in general, but I'm actually pretty decent with them by now. It just takes time and effort.

LCPs are rough on me because the pistol shift in my hand slightly with every shot for whatever reason. The LCP2s are a little beller in that aspect. The bodyguard is nice to shoot because it fits my hand so well. Smith and Wesson always gets the ergos right. Whomever heads that on their design team is excellent. Its rare to kind a S&W that doesnt feel good in the hand.

Now... whomever designed the grip module on the Beretta Pico was a knucklehead. Such a well designed pistol with a fatal ergo design. Hopefully they are working on it as I write this. All it needs is a new grip module.
 
I have an original LCP that I bought many years ago and it's still going strong. It serves exactly the purpose I've ordered for, pocket carry when IWB is not convenient. I'm waiting to find a good deal on an LCP Max then maybe I'll upgrade
 
I have an original LCP that I bought many years ago and it's still going strong. It serves exactly the purpose I've ordered for, pocket carry when IWB is not convenient. I'm waiting to find a good deal on an LCP Max then maybe I'll upgrade

LCP Max feels great in the hand. If I could trust Rugers quality control (like I once did) I would have one by now. For the time being I am holding off.

I really wish they would have made it "Max" and used a steel subframe. Its pretty clear to me they took the Kellgren P3At and morphed it with a Kellgren Grendel P12. Why they dumped the steal sub frame is beyond me other than Ruger just wanting to be cheap. The LCP "Not so MAX IMO" could have easily been designed around 380acp+P (like the Pico) but Ruger cheaped out and got lazy again. It disapointed me quite a bit when I opened one up and inspected the build. They also crapped out with the magazine design. They are pretty flimsy and bottleck magazines are one of the most finicky methods out there to keep things reliable...again LAZY. A standard double stack could easily up that round count by 1 or 2 cartridges and be far more reliable.

I am still optomistic though. Maybe Ruger will get its head out of its rear and produce an LCP Max2 at some point. They have the ability to do so if you open up one of the Ruger American pistols. Nice strong steel subframes in those like they should be.

Until then I wait .... Best case scenario is Beretta is working on a Pico "Max" but Beretta is very tight lipped about new upcoming products.
 
How? Two words → wrong expectations.

Combine that with the fact that (many) Americans these days don't want to take responsibility for the results of their decisions; easier to blame something else.

I went to look at one when choosing my CCW. I was impressed by the size, price and reputation, but decided I wanted 9 x 19 instead of 9x18, mostly for the ability to get cheap ammo. I decided I'd be willing to go up a smidge in pistol size to get this. I wound up with a P365 and I'm happy. It also has a better trigger, but costs twice as much as an LCP.

If I get a chance I want to test fire one at a range when I see someone who's got one. I do like 380s, I just don't like buying factory ammo and it's not a fun cartridge to reload for, either. Oh, and let's not even get to looking for my brass amongst all the 9x19 at the range...

If I had bought an LCP and then found it was hard to shoot accurately or for more than 25 rounds at a time, I would only have myself to blame, as this is well-documented.
 
The gun that enables you to carry (when the alternative is not to carry) is far, far superior option than not carrying... especially when you think your circumstances require it.

Ruger LCP...
ankle carry in an uncle Mike's rig?.................yup
pocket carry in a DeSantis Nemesis?............yup
back pocket carry in a wallet style holster?....yup
Appendix carry with a clip draw?....................yup
Concealed in plain site with Sneaky Pete?....yup

Hot summer days with jeans and a t-shirt?
Prohibited place with slacks and a dress shirt?
Easy on/easy off solution for a quick trip to the store?

All comfortable, easy and very well concealed.

I've even been patted down at an arena entrance with it and been waived right through.

That's a win in my book.
 
I love pocket guns but I do push the boundry of what most people consider a pocket gun. My version of a pocket gun is my LC9s which I carry in my right front jean pocket with a pocket holster. I live in an open carry state so I really don't care about being concealed or not or printing. Pocket carry is simply what I find the most comfortable. I have many thousands of rounds through my LC9s and its one of my favorite pistols to shoot. I have a LCP 22lr that I sometimes put in a jacket pocket and just shoot recreationally.

I did have a kahr CW380 for awhile and I couldn't train myself to shoot it with any accuracy and it was incredibly difficult to get enough grip on it to rack the slide, and I'm no weakling. If that had been my only experience with a pocket pistol I would probably hate them as well.
 
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I have noticed a general consensus among the gun community of emotions ranging from annoyance to downright hatred of the Ruger LCP, and equivalent pocket .380 Automatics...

Lots of gun owners have an emotional response (like/dislike) about firearm choices. Often reminds me of how people like to promote sports teams and brands of pickup trucks. :p

Personally, I never had much use for the .380ACP caliber after an unsatisfactory experience with a little Double stack Beretta in the 80's. Time and needs can change, though. At the beginning of the second decade of the 21st century I was seeing more of the diminutive plastic .380's coming through our range (off-duty weapons), and had a chance to watch how they worked in the hands of folks.

I finally decided I needed something just a bit shorter and slimmer than my J-frames for those times I wished to pocket-holster a retirement CCW. I tried out a LCP and S&W Bodyguard 380 on our range, and decided the LCP deserved a second look. Granted, the .380ACP is at the bottom of what I normally considered 'minimal/adequate', meaning a rung just below the .38SPL. However, it was seeing growing approval among LE agencies as an off-duty/secondary (backup) duty weapon, albeit primarily for the conveniently size smaller plastic models becoming available.

I ordered one from a local cop shop. Blued carbon steel slide/barrel, just post-Recall in Ruger's production. Rudimentary sights and small enough to require some attention regarding grip. Mine also has an issue with the take-down pin waling under recoil, but a replacement pin from Ruger resolved that issue. What really caught my attention was how it fed and functioned with an assortment of JHP's and Ball loads, and was more accurate than what I'd expected.

I liked that little pocket-holster option so much that I ordered a second one, in stainless, with the revised trigger/hammer geometry and marginally improved sights. That little LCP handled every JHP I tried - and take-down pin didn't walk :D - and it was easier to shoot at speed, accurately, than my favored J-frames. Aside from the short mag capacity and manipulations required for reloading the small gun with the small mags - not helped by lack of a hold-open feature :p - it made short work of the usual duty and off-duty qual courses-of-fire and the normal drills.

I still look at the caliber as being a bit light, considering the light bullet weight and velocity produced by the short barrel, but it suits my desires for those days/nights when my retirement activities and risk assessment leans toward the "I probably don't need to be armed today" frame of mind. That, and when my jeans have such short and tight pockets than they can't conceal one of my J-frames. ;) Easier to run fast and accurately than a NAA SA mini revolver (which I look at more as a last-ditch "Onion Field" type hideout weapon).

Bottom line? My opinion? The littlest .380's, like the LCP, aren't for everyone. I've watched guys with very large hands experience difficulty in trying to manipulate and shoot them. (Thumbing that itty bitty size slide during cycling can induce stoppages.)

Not everyone likes the DAO trigger pull, either, especially those shooters who have come up basically only learning to handle and shoot plastic pistols with shorter & lighter trigger pulls. Harder to shoot well than a larger pistol, although there are some larger choices for folks who still feel a .380 is adequate for their perceived needs.

Different strokes.

There are a growing number of cops who don't mind the small/smallish .380's employed in the role of a duty/backup, or an alternative option for off-duty carry. It still comes down to being able to put the hits where you want them to go, though.

Just some thoughts. I don't care what other active and retired cops carry, nor private citizens ... nor why they make the choices they make. It comes down to what I've found I can run controllably, hard and accurately, and whether some option works for my desires when it comes to retirement CCW. Life is all about choices and consequences, after all.
 
I am not a fan of little 380 guns or carrying a gun in a pocket at all. But... I did pick one up yesterday in a trade for something I got for free and had been sitting in a box for years. It came with an extra mag, a Fobus paddle holster, and a box of critical defense. Why did I get a 380? To do what I'm not a fan of- carry it in a pocket. About 3 nights a week I train at a dojo, which means I'm doing a pretty good amount of driving back and forth in a pair of MMA shorts and a T shirt. I may as well be in my underwear. All of my MMA shorts have a small pocket with a velcro flap on the side designed to hold a mouth guard. A LCP will fit in that pocket. My S&W shield 9 won't. Not even close. So now I can have a gun one me when I am going back and forth, stopping for gas or a drink, or whatever VS in my truck where it isn't doing me any good should I need it. It is going to live in a pocket attached to the bag I carry all of my fight gear in. I plan on firing a few rounds out of it next week when I go to the range, and putting it in my gear bag. So I finally found a use/application for such a gun and lucked out that it was free.
 
I love pocket guns but I do push the boundry of what most people consider a pocket gun. My version of a pocket gun is my LC9s which I carry in my right front jean pocket with a pocket holster. I live in an open carry state so I really don't care about being concealed or not or printing. Pocket carry is simply what I find the most comfortable. I have many thousands of rounds through my LC9s and its one of my favorite pistols to shoot. I have a LCP 22lr that I sometimes put in a jacket pocket and just shoot recreationally.

I did have a kahr CW380 for awhile and I couldn't train myself to shoot it with any accuracy and it was incredibly difficult to get enough grip on it to rack the slide, and I'm no weakling. If that had been my only experience with a pocket pistol I would probably hate them as well.

While I am not a huge fan of the LCP (or P3AT for that matter) I really like the LC380 (380 version of the LC9). That is a very nice shooting pistol. HUGE fan of the P11 as well once I fixed the trigger overtravel. I really wish Kellgren would have just shrunk the P11 down for a 380 double stack. Sccy ended up doing it eventually.
 
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The gun that enables you to carry (when the alternative is not to carry) is far, far superior option than not carrying... especially when you think your circumstances require it.

Ruger LCP...
ankle carry in an uncle Mike's rig?.................yup
pocket carry in a DeSantis Nemesis?............yup
back pocket carry in a wallet style holster?....yup
Appendix carry with a clip draw?....................yup
Concealed in plain site with Sneaky Pete?....yup

Hot summer days with jeans and a t-shirt?
Prohibited place with slacks and a dress shirt?
Easy on/easy off solution for a quick trip to the store?

All comfortable, easy and very well concealed.

I've even been patted down at an arena entrance with it and been waived right through.

That's a win in my book.

I never could get comfortable with that wallet style carry. Always Feels wrong to sit on a pistol. Normally I carry a pocket gun in a phone/tool style pouch right in the open similar to your Sneaky Pete.. Its diguised so nobody ever questions it. Front pocket doesnt work all that great for me either as I hate having stuff in my pockets normally if I have to run or move (kids are still young). If I am not useing an actual holster its usually in a pouch.
 
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