Ruger P95 accuracy problems

[pseudonymity]

I have a Ruger P95DC that I just can not seem to shoot accurately. I purchased the gun used about a year ago, and my first few outings with it were not impressive, but I was unfamiliar with the gun. I also had been shooting cheap ammo like Tula or WWB, so I suspected that was part of the issue. Over several months, I have tried different ammo including both lead and plated handloads, with charges from very mild to full power 9mm. Sights have been replaced with FireSights, and I have tried a HandAll as well, and nothing seems to make much difference. I dry fire for 20-50 pulls probably 4 days a week, and have been doing this for months, so I do not think my technique is a problem at this point.

For instance, today at an indoor range at 7 yards, I was getting 5 shot groups in the 3-4 inch range even with two hands rested on a table. That is just miserable. I also shot my Buckmark with bulk .22lr, and with that gun I can shoot a group about 2" even with a single hand grip and my non-dominant eye. Groups are in the 1-2" range with my .357 6" barrel revolver in double action so I do not think a flinch due to recoil or sound is an issue either. The final straw was when I bought a Keltec P11 recently, and my first mag through that 3" barrel with a long 8 lb pull were about as good as my better groups with the P95.

I am looking for suggestions with two things - for P95 owners, what type of accuracy are you getting, and in general, what types of problems should I be looking for in the gun? The crown does not have any real nicks or gouges that I can see, and the barrel itself does not have any flaws that I can see. There is a slight amount of sideways play in the barrel when it is locked up in battery, maybe .002-.004 or so. The only thing that looks unusual is that the point of the cam where the barrel meets the block is not smooth - the block that cams the action down is machined kind of rough, but the barrel mates up to the block. I do not suspect this is an issue though, since I was under the assumption that the bullet is out of the barrel before the action starts to unlock from battery, so the fit between the barrel and block should not have any real effect on accuracy.

Reliability has been excellent over the 1000+ rounds I have fired from this gun, so I would really appreciate anything anybody can suggest to me to start looking at next.

 

[LiveLife]

I had a P95 that became a retirement gift for a friend and still regret parting with it.

As to accuracy, it averaged about 1" at 7 yards, 2" at 10 yards and 3" at 15 yards off hand with factory target loads (WWB, etc.). Accuracy was better with my reloads shot from sand bags.

Since the barrel crown is OK, I would inspect the inside of barrel and make sure it didn't have leading deposit from shooting lead loads. If it has leading, I use an old copper bore brush wrapped with copper scrubber strands to remove it (like Chore Boy tested with a magnet). 5-10 strokes and barrel should come clean of lead deposits in the rifling.

 

[plateshooter]

What bds said. We had an gun store / indoor range in my area that sold the super cheap soft lead reloads for use at their range. I could usually find almost new pistols for cheap there because the owners shot them until the barrel leaded up, lost the accuracy and traded them in on something else. I bought my first P95D stainless there for $200.00 like new but used. I still have that one. I would de lead the barrel (if there is any lead in it) and try again.

I have owned a few P95s and never found them to be a great target pistol, but they sure worked well for shooting close range plates. Back when steel case 9mm was going for $80.00 per K, it was not unusual to put a thousand rounds through a P95 during a weekend at the steel shoots. Although the P95 was not the most accurate pistol for me, it is probably the most reliable pistol I have owned.

 

[pseudonymity]

Thanks for the responses, but the lead fouling is not an issue. I do clean after every 200 rounds of lead or so using a copper scrubber strand wrapped around a brass jag.

For the latest accuracy testing, I really scrubbed the barrel clean before switching to plated bullets just to make sure leading was not my issue.

I am going to try slugging the bore again today - if I remember, it slugged to .355 or so before, but I may be mistaken. The only other thing I can think of is that the recoil springs may just be worn a bit and that is letting the slide start to unlock early. This gun will will eject and lock the slide back with loads that are as weak as 3.1g HP38 under a 125g lead bullet at near max OAL. Most of my loads have been 125g, I am going to try some 115g loads and see if it changes things.

I really do want to like this gun, but this accuracy problem has me ready to throw it in a lake.

 

[LiveLife]

Most of my loads have been 125g, I am going to try some 115g loads and see if it changes things.

It's been my experience that 125 gr bullet loads were more accurate than 115 gr.

been shooting cheap ammo like Tula or WWB, so I suspected that was part of the issue. Over several months, I have tried different ammo including both lead and plated handloads, with charges from very mild to full power 9mm ... 7 yards, I was getting 5 shot groups in the 3-4 inch range even with two hands rested on a table

So both factory and reloads all produce around 3-4" groups at 7 yards?

 

[5-SHOTS]

May I suggest you to try .357 bullets (from 100gr to 148gr) both lead and jacketed?
Your idea of a weak recoil spring is probably the correct one. It could be also a slightly worn barrel, but you say it is .355.

 

[W.E.G.]

My P95 hates plain-lead and plated-lead bullets more than the Ayatollah hates Americans.

So, you don't win the 7-yard benchrest pistol match with the P-95.

What was the question?

 

[pseudonymity]

It's been my experience that 125 gr bullet loads were more accurate than 115 gr.


So both factory and reloads all produce around 3-4" groups at 7 yards?

I am going to pick up some factory 115g today if I can find some and try it out. It has been a while since I shot factory ammo, but the last time I did, the accuracy was not much different.

 

[pseudonymity]

May I suggest you to try .357 bullets (from 100gr to 148gr) both lead and jacketed?
Your idea of a weak recoil spring is probably the correct one. It could be also a slightly worn barrel, but you say it is .355.

I slugged it again, and it comes out as .356. The lead and plated loads I have been shooting have been .356, so that is not optimal. I could see the lead leaking gas, but I would think the plating at .356 would prevent blowby - maybe not. I am going to have to find some .357 bullets and give those a try like you suggest.

Regarding the recoil spring, how much play is normal in the barrel in lockup? My barrel has maybe .001-2" of play side to side in lockup, and if you move the slide back just 1/16" or so (just enough to relieve the forward pressure on the barrel) and shake the gun the barrel rattles in the slide. Is this typical for any other P95 owners, or do I have a loose barrel lockup?

 

[pseudonymity]

My P95 hates plain-lead and plated-lead bullets more than the Ayatollah hates Americans.

So, you don't win the 7-yard benchrest pistol match with the P-95.

What was the question?

Hates it to 4" groups at 7 yards? If so, could you tell me what you get out of it from jacketed rounds?

2" or so at 7 yards with two hands rested I could live with - that is nothing great, but workable for a plinker/HD gun.

 

[5-SHOTS]

I slugged it again, and it comes out as .356. The lead and plated loads I have been shooting have been .356, so that is not optimal. I could see the lead leaking gas, but I would think the plating at .356 would prevent blowby - maybe not. I am going to have to find some .357 bullets and give those a try like you suggest.

Regarding the recoil spring, how much play is normal in the barrel in lockup? My barrel has maybe .001-2" of play side to side in lockup, and if you move the slide back just 1/16" or so (just enough to relieve the forward pressure on the barrel) and shake the gun the barrel rattles in the slide. Is this typical for any other P95 owners, or do I have a loose barrel lockup?

With the barrel in lockup the play seems to be neglegible (no play would have been better...). I'm more worried about the barrel play after only 1/16" travel of the slide. At this point I'm convinced that the lack of accuracy you are experiencing is a combination of those three factors: bore opened to .356, barrel to slide play and premature unlocking of the breech. I'd try a couple sets of new recoil springs one factory rating and the other slightly overpowered (1 or 2 pounds more) togheter with .357 bullets reloads to see what happens. If it doesn't help a new barrel fitted by Ruger is the way to go IMHO.

 

[MedWheeler]

See if you can find another owner and swap barrels for a session. Shoot his gun with your barrel in it, and yours with his barrel in it.

I picked one of these up a few months ago. Back in the nineties, I was issued a P-85 that I never really had any formal training with; all my serious training had come earlier with revolvers. I only had to qualify with it. I did easily, but never shot it really all that well. I also owned a S&W 659 at the time, and didn't run that one all that well, either. I think it was simply not having good training with DA/SA pistols.

Over the years, I've learned that type of action more and, when I got this one, I was quite impressed with how much better I seem to shoot it than I did those other guns back then.

I hope you figure yours out. They're typically good values in guns.

 

[pseudonymity]

Many thanks for all the replies. I had a sick child today, so no chance to run factory ammo through the gun for a check, but I did get some pics. If any other P95 owners have a chance to see if the fit of their guns is similar, I would greatly appreciate it. First, the barrel tilt lug and cam block mentioned earlier. The cam block has a casting split mark in down the centerline, and it looks like the mold halves were not aligned. The cam block has formed the barrel tilt lug with one side being shorter than the other. This I do not think would effect accuracy since the lug only contacts the block after the action is fully open.

 

[pseudonymity]

The next thing which seems unusual to me is the top lug in the barrel that locks to the slide. There are two very small areas of contact on the lug that make slide contact in battery - they show as shiny lines about half way on the top lug. It seems like there is just not much contact area to keep the barrel from shifting around in lockup, and possibly locking up in a slightly different spot during each shot. I do not have another P95 to compare it to, so I am not sure if this is normal, but it sure seems like a suboptimal design.

 

[pseudonymity]

Just a quick update for anybody with the same problems, it seems I have found a temporary fix. I noticed that as the slide retracted before the barrel tilted down, there was a lot of play in the barrel. If I cocked the hammer and pushed the slide back just a tiny bit, say a couple of .01, the barrel would drop a small amount in the slide and if I shook the gun, the barrel would rattle in the slide like rocks in a coffee can.

Looking at the top of the cam block where the barrel tail slides before the barrel cams down, it showed quite a bit of wear. Using a bit of JB Weld I built up the cam block and sanded the excess until the barrel stayed locked up tight while the slide rode back. All told, I only had to add .008, but what a difference that .008 made. At the range today using some 125g lead loads I had all but given up on, I was able to put 14 of 15 rounds into one inch offhand at 7 yards. That is about as good as I can shoot any of my pistols.

I have a call into Ruger, perhaps they will send along a replacement cam block, since I do not think the JB Weld is going to hold up very long.

 

[JohnKSa]

For a barrel misalignment to be causing 4" of dispersion at 7 yards, you'd need a little over 0.06" of alignment change over the shot string. It may not sound like much, but that's a lot of misalignment--you should be able to see it with the naked eye pretty easily.

If I cocked the hammer and pushed the slide back just a tiny bit, say a couple of .01, the barrel would drop a small amount in the slide and if I shook the gun, the barrel would rattle in the slide like rocks in a coffee can.

That's normal.

The pictures in post 13 don't look right. The rear upper surface of the camblock should be flat and relatively smooth as should the rear lower surface of the barrel under the feedramp. Those two surfaces are in contact during lockup and if they're irregular, I could see that affecting accuracy. I would expect to see the impacts dispersed primarily in the vertical direction.

 

[5-SHOTS]

One strange thing in the pics you posted is that the cam lock on the recoil assembly shows wear, while the cam lock on the barrel doesn't show anything. Could it be a new barrel poorly fitted by the previous owner (essentially a drop-in one that is not working well)? Or it is the original one and I'm missing something?
Anyway if it was mine I'd file and round the cam lock on the barrel, under the chamber, to make it symmetrical on both sides.

 

[pseudonymity]

For a barrel misalignment to be causing 4" of dispersion at 7 yards, you'd need a little over 0.06" of alignment change over the shot string. It may not sound like much, but that's a lot of misalignment--you should be able to see it with the naked eye pretty easily.That's normal.

The pictures in post 13 don't look right. The rear upper surface of the camblock should be flat and relatively smooth as should the rear lower surface of the barrel under the feedramp. Those two surfaces are in contact during lockup and if they're irregular, I could see that affecting accuracy. I would expect to see the impacts dispersed primarily in the vertical direction.

It is not really clear in the pics in post #13, but the contact area on the cam block where the barrel tail rides in lockup is definitely regular, but pretty worn down. That is the area that I built up with epoxy to gain the .008. I think this is just a matter of a lot of use - over time the barrel tail wore down the cam block until there was excessive play. I have not been lubing it enough it seems, and presumably the previous owner did not either.

The extra 8 thou on the cam block does more than just effect vertical dispersion - once that barrel is loose during lockup, it moves in all directions inside the slide, not just downwards. I would not have thought that 8 thou at the rear of the barrel would matter that much, but it may be that once the barrel is loose during initial recoil the front end may move a bit in the slide as well.

I only got about 50 rounds down the barrel yesterday, but my groups were a half to a third of the size they were previously depending on load.

 

[pseudonymity]

One strange thing in the pics you posted is that the cam lock on the recoil assembly shows wear, while the cam lock on the barrel doesn't show anything. Could it be a new barrel poorly fitted by the previous owner (essentially a drop-in one that is not working well)? Or it is the original one and I'm missing something?
Anyway if it was mine I'd file and round the cam lock on the barrel, under the chamber, to make it symmetrical on both sides.

I guess it is possible that the barrel is not the original, but I have no way to know for sure. The cam block where the barrel tail slides during initial recoil was worn down smooth. This is actually a good design IMO, since the replacement cam block is less than half the cost of a new barrel. With the cam block built back up under the barrel tail, the barrel stays locked pretty tight to the slide until it falls off the end of the cam block. Now when I cock the hammer and move the slide back maybe .1 or so, I can move the barrel in the slide with my fingers a bit, but it is fairly tight. Previously I could gently shake the gun and the barrel would rattle in the slide.

 

[JohnKSa]

I think this is just a matter of a lot of use - over time the barrel tail wore down the cam block until there was excessive play.

With minimal maintenance, that gun should go for maybe 5000 rounds before you see a noticeable accuracy decline and then the decline should be very gradual. Even after 10K rounds or so, it should still be shooting acceptable groups at 15 yards. It's not uncommon to see accuracy actually improve during the first 1000 rounds or so.

Here's what the surface on the barrel should look like, and the mating camblock surface should be similarly flat and regular.