Ruger SP101 problem?

[788Ham]

The dragline across the rear shield appears to me, it might need a bit of oil or lube in that part of the cylinder, that pin is dragging too hard. If lubed, the pin and spring will retract inside the cylinder, not being held out and not able to be pushed inside like it should. Try some oil in that piece, see what happens.

 

[Lost Sheep]

THR collapsed on me and when I recovered access found I posted an answer to the wrong thread and now cannot delete, so just wrote this.

Lost Sheep

 

[5-SHOTS]

As others implied, why bother asking if you already have all the answers? In telling us all to relax, as these are just our favorite toys, why bother posting the problem in the first place if you do not want some kind of reaction or possible solutions to a potential problem?

Simply because I've never experienced what you are speaking of in my SP101 even if I know what you are speaking of. What you reported makes full sense if it was happened to my SP101, but luckly it was NOT. I thank yor for report your experience, but it was not mine. Again, I shoot ONLY factory rounds so the possibility of a gas escape or a holed primer is very very low.

I personally don't listen to people that can't even take care of their guns, but hey everyone else should. My GP100's been used by the entire family for years now and doesn't have that rut yours has and not one single new revolver I've ever seen has a scratch there. Mine doesn't even have a drag line on the outside of the cylinder from the cylinder stop, but hey, that's because I clean mine... Yet some posters know exactly what it is seeing as how they can so confidently say what it isn't.

I trust guns more than people. Those pics look like neglect and now the OP's going to be trying to pawn it off on Ruger or some new sucker. Hope you get stuck with your creation.

When someone thinks that a cylinder can be closed with a case stucked under the ejector star, every other comment about his knowledge on how a revolver works is unnecessary.

Those pics look like neglect and now the OP's going to be trying to pawn it off on Ruger or some new sucker.

I can tolerate everything except someone that is going to doubt my honesty.





Another couple words about the drag line and the cleaning rod question...
I have this gun since April 2008, I fired 2350 rounds. I've probably dry fired it more than 12000 times. I open and close the cylinder an average of two times a day for loading/unloading (it's my bedside gun and I live with the rest of my family, so I don't want to keep it loaded during the day). I don't even know how many times I've opened and closed it for dry fire practice. So you still think that a drag line that you can barely feel with your nail is not normal? Again: what the drag line has to do with the dent near the firing pin hole? Anyway my SP101 is working like day one, it is smooth, tight, the cylinder spins like butter, cylinder opens and closes like butter, so why you are still speaking about it? The issue is the dent.
Again about the cleaning rod: never smacked a cleaning rod against the shield. To produce that dent I need a cleaning rod and a hammer...Don't you think it is simpler that 2350 spent recoiling cases have produced the dent round after round and I've noticed it too late?
Probably it is not that clear on the pics but the dent has a half-circular shape.
IMHO the issue is a connection between the off center firing pin (which is a fact) and a casting defect (which can be debated).

 

[JRWhit]

5-SHOT, It may be the lighting on the picture, but your firing pin seems to be quite a bit smaller in diameter in relation to the hole then what mine is. Could maybe be a wiggle in the firing pin, slamming against the edge when fired? This may make since given the relation of hardness between the firing pin and the hole.Looking at mine the firing pin looks to fit the diameter of the hole quite a bit closer. Out of curiosity, are your primers cratering?


One other thing, there are more than one ring around the firing pin in the picture, the outer most looking centered. Could the off center dimple in the primer be due to clocking misalignment rather than an off center firing pin? Is the cylinder fairly rigid to the frame when the hammer is cocked? After that many rounds a little play could cause it to be off center.

 

[wanderinwalker]

5-SHOTS, I don't have an SP-101 of my own, but that sure does look like something hit just off center on the firing pin hole, like a cleaning rod or similar. Like the others, I can't see how that is possible because a cleaning rod and jag is a lot softer than Ruger's stainless steel.

I've seen my share of pierced rifle primers (Revoliver is going to love me! For the record, don't use brass colored WSR primers in heavy bullet .223 loads...) and your picture does not show what I normally see from gas cutting a bolt face. Normally you get erosion from the center toward the outside of the firing pin hole. Leaking primers will give you a cookie-cutter pattern around the outside of the firing pin hole, again more of a ragged, dimpled pattern. What you have appears to be a nice, relatively clean mark.

And you can color me impressed that even after 3000 rounds your SP barely has an imprint around the firing pin from the primers and caseheads.

(As for Revoliver, try closing a cylinder with just a smudge of FOD under the extractor star. Ain't gonna happen and anybody with half a clue will figure it out something is amiss. I've had this happen on my S&W 19 from unburnt powder flakes and you're not closing anything until you get the minuscule offenders out of there. There is no way you could get a cylinder closed with the case heads under the extractor. 0% chance. 5-SHOTS dragline looks 100% normal IME.)

Another thought for yout 5-SHOTS, do you have some brass handy that you've fired recently? I'd be curious if you have some flow from the primers that may mirror the indent around the firing pin.

 

[5-SHOTS]

First of all, JRWhit and wanderinwalker, thanks for your observations and questions, I’ll try to do my best answering everything.


JRWhit: after the cylinder is opened and holding the release button like the cylinder was closed (I know on S&W revolver is alot simpler to do that trick), I pull the trigger holding it in its rear position, so I can inspect the firing pin which now protrudes from the shield. I can tell you for sure everything is fine and the firing pin fits its hole as it should. At the moment it shows no signs of drag against its hole. Pushed using its rear portion, the firing pin goes forward and returns in its rest position normally. It seems there’s no wiggle but who knows what happens when the hammer falls? Keep in mind that the internal walls of the hole are fine; the dent is slightly to the right of the hole and FOR NOW it hasn’t damaged the hole’s walls. I don’t know if it can be called cratering but the last cases fired are copying the dent now.
The lockup is tight and the timing is perfect. The strikes are off center even when I stage the trigger not only shooting fast DA and that is from day one. As mentioned before, it is clear that the hole in the frame for the firing pin and firing pin housing was cutted slightly off center.


wanderinwalker wrote: “…your picture does not show what I normally see from gas cutting a bolt face. Normally you get erosion from the center toward the outside of the firing pin hole. Leaking primers will give you a cookie-cutter pattern around the outside of the firing pin hole, again more of a ragged, dimpled pattern. What you have appears to be a nice, relatively clean mark.” You are totally right on this: there’s no sign of erosion, it’s a very clean half-circular mark.

“And you can color me impressed that even after 3000 rounds your SP barely has an imprint around the firing pin from the primers and caseheads.” Sorry my friend but I’m not sure I’ve understood your tought. Can you can explain it simpler for me? No irony of any kind here, I’m italian and sometimes I can’t simply understand well all the sense of sentences. Thanks.


Here is a pic of a case fired long time ago from my SP101. You can see how much the firing pin is off center. However the strike is very positive. As you can see there’s no sign of the dent impressed on the primer, like recent spent cases instead show: that proves the issue was recent, was developed slowly and was not previously noticed during normal inspection as I said in my first post.

At the moment I haven’t any of the last cases fired because I left them at the range for reloaders friends, but this is not a problem: next time I’ll fire a couple rounds to show you the differences and to add data for Ruger just in case.

On the other pic, signed in red, there’s the zone where the dent is being impressed on the last cases’ primers, just to explain.

 

[5-SHOTS]

Could maybe be a wiggle in the firing pin, slamming against the edge when fired?

I've cecked again the firing pin using the trick posted above: the wiggle is really neglegible and the fit is tight.

For the record, don't use brass colored WSR primers in heavy bullet .223 loads...)

Probably the last 700/800 rounds I've fired were Fiocchi Top Target 158gr ,both .357 and .38, with a brass colored primer that seems very soft compared to other primers. In your experience could be that the problem (in a smaller scale than a .223 Remington...)?



I've cecked the pin that leaves the scar on the shield: it has NO signs of wear. It is like new (just like the firing pin), so it's clear that some parts are harder than others.

 

[Jaymo]

Judging by the photos of the fired case, it looks like you definitely have an off center firing pin.

 

[JRWhit]

I'm afraid that's all i got. I can speculate but it sounds like the best answer may come from Ruger. May be some sort of chip on the work hardened area around the firing pin. Over time the metal can become more brittle. But that's not officially coming from a metallurgist. Just a basic understanding of metals.

 

[5-SHOTS]

I can speculate but it sounds like the best answer may come from Ruger. May be some sort of chip on the work hardened area around the firing pin.

I'm thinking the same thing. Thanks again for your toughts and considerations.

 

[sgt127]

I personally don't listen to people that can't even take care of their guns, but hey everyone else should. My GP100's been used by the entire family for years now and doesn't have that rut yours has and not one single new revolver I've ever seen has a scratch there. Mine doesn't even have a drag line on the outside of the cylinder from the cylinder stop, but hey, that's because I clean mine... Yet some posters know exactly what it is seeing as how they can so confidently say what it isn't.

I trust guns more than people. Those pics look like neglect and now the OP's going to be trying to pawn it off on Ruger or some new sucker. Hope you get stuck with your creation.

Go ahead and put me in the "people who can't even take care of thier guns" category. As a matter of fact, Its obvious I can't take care of any of my Smiths or Rugers, as, they all have this wear pattern where the hardened steel center pin drags across the relatively soft breechface of the frame.



To the OP. I dug out my SP-101 for this picture. There is nothing I can think of that would make a half moon sized dent into the firing pin bushing except the end of a cleaning rod smacking it. EXCEPT, it could have been there since new and, you didn't notice it or, if you look at the firing pin bushing on mine, you can see it kind of peened out. I remember seeing it do that and dropped a solid rod down the bore and tapped it flat again. Perhaps your mushroomed out a bit and had a little casting flaw in it and the surface broke off leaving the void.

Its really a easy fix. That bushing is removeable by the factory. Ruger will tap it out, replace it and, the gun should be good for another 10,000 rounds or so.

 

[HighRoadRover]

Do you use snapcaps when you dryfire?

I'm just wondering if a rebounding portion of a snapcap could make that indent - if hit by the firing pin 12000 times (mentioned as the number of times you have dry fired).

I suppose it might could (maybe?) be from primers (although it looks too small).

To answer the original question, I doubt it would affect function anytime soon, but a trip back to Ruger would settle the question and probably garner you a new firing pin, too.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

When someone thinks that a cylinder can be closed with a case stucked under the ejector star, every other comment about his knowledge on how a revolver works is unnecessary.

I want a t-shirt made that says this........ my thoughts exactly.

I took a look at my 101 and everything looks identical to your, except that dent by the firing pin. I'll be interested to hear what Ruger says would be the likely cause.

Go ahead and put me in the "people who can't even take care of thier guns" category.

Me too. All my revolvers have the same marks as yours. Why? Because they get used and shot. It's 100% normal.

 

[VA27]

I see the dent in the firing pin bushing. I have no idea as to the cause. It seems that it does not affect the function of the gun. I know that Ruger will make it right if you send it in. If the gun were mine, I would shoot it until it stops working and then send it to Ruger for repair.

I see that the firing pin strikes the primer slightly off center. I understand that it fires properly every time. That tells me that this is something not worth worrying about, and is in fact so common in my experience as to be not worth mentioning, ditto for the drag line on the recoil shield.