Rules for Littoral Conflict with Hostile Exchange of Ordnance

[280PLUS]

OR...

(US Navy Rules for a Gun Fight)
1. Bring a Battleship.
2. Bring another Battleship.
3. Bring a carrier, but don't let it get in the way.
4. Bring a submarine.
5. Dominate the sea.
6. Dominate the air.
7. Dominate the hostile shore.
8. Do not hit mines.
9. Avoid shore/air/sea launched missiles.
10. Do not run aground. Do NOT run aground.
11. When the Marines call for support, ignore Rules 1-10
and provide as much support, as closely as possible, with
all forces at hand. Ships are cheap; Marines are not.
12. If you lose, the Marines will remember forever that
you were not there. If you win, the Marines will say the Navy was not needed.
13. Drink coffee.

 

[enfield]

Good!

It's Ordnance -- not Ordinance.

 

[280PLUS]

oops, I just copied it through and missed that one.

 

[juggler]

I resemble that inference

That's something to show the squid if/when we shoot this weekend….though the weather doesn't look to improve until next week.

I will pass along the Marine rules of engagement soon.

 

[rms/pa]

a bit more elaborate than mine
NAVY RULES FOR A GUNFIGHT
1. send marines

2. stay 3 miles offshore and provide gunfire support

3. drink coffee in air conditioned gun mount

rms/pa

 

[280PLUS]

I'm told that was written by a Marine but I can't be sure...

 

[armoredman]

Ya, know, I slept in a 3"50 cal gun mount in Condition 3 cruising in the Gulf, and I don't remember any air conditioning....just trying to curl up around a steel seat, as we couldn't leave the mount, but had a 10 minute readiness window.
On the other hand, it WAS really rough on the ship when we ran out of ice cream....
A former Marine on my staff was talking about making it back to the chow hall for grub, when I laughed, and he looked startled. I said "Now you know why I joined the Navy - we took the chow hall into combat with us!"

 

[rms/pa]

armoredman, dats the problem with those old obsolete open mounts. no AC.

even the 76mm on the perry class frigates has AC.

rms/pa

 

[No_Brakes23]

My
Ass
Rides
In
Navy
Equipment


I haven't been on a boat, (Pardon me squids, I mean ship) that didn't have that penned on a the bulkhead somewhere.

 

[Old NFO]

2. stay 3 miles offshore and provide gunfire support

RMS/PA the other option is to get as close as possible... During D-Day the Emmons and the Doyle came within 800 YARDS or less of Omaha beach- They were basically firing point blank at the Germans, and were getting peppered by rifle fire at the same time.

I "know" at least one large ship with 9 BIG guns on it was within less that 3 miles of Nam supporting a Marine Company 23+ miles inland at danger close ranges 30+ years ago

I also saw a Gunnery shoot in WESTPAC two years ago where the first 5"/54 round took the banner off the Lear Jet's tow cable and the second round clipped what was later determined to be 10 additional feet of cable before the Lear hauled butt for home

 

[280PLUS]

Ya gotta have big brass ones to be flying the jet,,,

 

[rms/pa]

thanks old nfo,

my gun mount the 5'54 mk 45 had no direct fire control when first deployed
so 3 miles gave us a small "over the hill" ability. later a syncro with binocs was added to the signal bridge that the mount could be used in direct fire mode..

literaly walking rounds on to the target like a machine gun ... weird as heck with a 5'.

rms/pa

 

[Souris]

even the 76mm on the perry class frigates has AC

The 76MM may have AC but the .50 cal mounts were out in the open with only life lines and a splinter shield around them. The 25mm wasn't any better.
Sonar Control was nice though.

 

[Old NFO]

Not really 280 Plus, we just use the big sky, little airplane, smaller bullet theory

RMS/PA, you guys always amazed me with your accuracy- I "know" how hard it is to hit anything from an airplane, which is a relatively stable platform, but to do that from a ship rolling and pitching just blew my mind.

 

[280PLUS]

Not really 280 Plus, we just use the big sky, little airplane, smaller bullet theory

LOL... that's good until one of those microprocessors in there somewhere farts and decides little plane is a big target

 

[rms/pa]

old nfo,

thanks for the kind words, keep in mind our standard of fire control is to hit a 500 mph air target coming at us while we are at 20-30 kts bouncing and rolling.

land targets are much easier...

rms/pa

 

[280PLUS]

my gun mount the 5'54 mk 45 had no direct fire control when first deployed
so 3 miles gave us a small "over the hill" ability. later a syncro with binocs was added to the signal bridge that the mount could be used in direct fire mode..

Am I to believe you guys were doing this kind of shooting with no Radar? What year(s) are we talking about here?

 

[Bart Noir]

Another version....

Navy (Enlisted) Rules to Gunfighting

1. Go to Sea

2. Send the Marines

3. Drink Coffee

4. Sit on a ship 600 miles away and launch officers in aircraft at the enemy.


Bart Noir
Who didn't / doesn't do any of the above ('cept the coffe)

 

[Leatherneck]

I'm told that was written by a Marine but I can't be sure...

Nah. No chance. We love our little brothers.

TC

 

[oneshooter]

Old NFO
I believe that the USS Texas (BB35) was as close as 3000yds from Point Du Hoc, supplying "direct fire support" to the Rangers with her 14"main batterys. This was INSIDE the destroyer line!!!

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[Old NFO]

LOL... that's good until one of those microprocessors in there somewhere farts and decides little plane is a big target

That, 280 Plus, is what we call the golden BB- At that point you terminate your contract with the government and that airplane, and put your faith in Mr. Switlick and your personal weapons

RMS/PA- Understood, but you guys were STILL good!!!!!!

Oneshooter, you're right, also the Harding (DD-625), Satterlee (DD-626), and McCook (DD-496) were there, and the McCook supposedly went into the surf line to take the point under "direct fire" knocking a German gun off the cliff (I guess the Skipper wasn't going to be ooutdone by the BB ). Also, many of the DD CO's disobeyed orders and closed the beach to pick up survivors and give medical aid, often coming under direct rifle and machine gun fire from the Germans. Without their actions, many more would have been lost on all beaches.

 

[oneshooter]

Nothing like a 14" pointed at you from spitting distance, more like 10 of them!! Two weeks after D-Day the Texas (BB35 10x 14") and the Arkansas (BB33 12x 12") took on 4 German Batteries off of Cherborg. In a 3 1/2 hour running gunfight they silenced 3 of the batteries.


Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[rms/pa]

280 plus,

RADAR.... we don need no stinkin RADAR

nah we used radar directed fireing at all times.... then some silly pointed out that radar breaks.... and we had no way to point the mount without it.

quick fix was the syncro with binocs on the signal bridge
later fix was a camera in line with the RADAR emmiter.

that way we could point the RADAR without emmiting(emitting fire control RADAR is the same as shooting in some folks opinion) but have the mount in local and the RADAR on standby. can we say .9 seconds from fireing?

rms/pa

 

[jrfoxx]

GO NAVY! And God bless the Jarheads!

 

[280PLUS]

AHHH, I see. was thinking, "Cutting the cable in flight in manual mode? Now THAT'S shooting!"

In my day we had a GM sitting in a bubble on top of the mount with sights and a honest to God trigger. Occasionally during practice they would let him shoot manually. I have no idea what the results were. I don't know if he had A/C either. I would hope so because it probably would get very toasty in the bubble sitting in the equatorial sun for a while. Maybe that's why our Gunners were so skinny? They were melting away in there!