Russian PKM machine gun in 7.62x51mm for LE?
- Thread starter Slater
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Nightcrawler
Member
Probably not. That's not to say the PK is a bad gun; matter of fact, it's one of the best GPMGs ever.
It's not well known in the 'States though.
Besides, how useful is a belt-fed going to be for police? It's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
It's not well known in the 'States though.
Besides, how useful is a belt-fed going to be for police? It's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Spreadfire Arms
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.....that came out of left field........
most LE agencies dont really use the Kalashnikov-inspired series of weapons. i know one guy who carries his personal semiauto AK in his patrol car trunk but that isn't a dept issued weapon.
i knew of one Dallas area SWAT Team that T&E'd Galil's and turned them down because they believed the gun was "inherently unsafe" because you have to "unsafe" the weapon to chamber a round. im not sure about PKM's but AK's have that same design so i dont see any LE agencies with those.
most LE agencies dont have a need or justification for belt-fed anyway?
El Tejon
Member
Slater, yes, they do however M249 and M240Gs are more popular.
LE has IFVs, planes and helicopters. Why do you think that they would not have GPMGs?
LE has IFVs, planes and helicopters. Why do you think that they would not have GPMGs?
Exposure
Member
That must take a tremendous amount of work and new parts to convert it over to 7.62X51. The weapon originally fired the 7.62X54R which is a rimmed cartridge and the 7.62X51 is rimless.
Also, why is the weapon in black and white, the ammo box is in color, and it appears to feeding a belt of 7.62X54R.
Also, why is the weapon in black and white, the ammo box is in color, and it appears to feeding a belt of 7.62X54R.
Phantom Warrior
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AndyC,
HA HA. Well put. And very true. Those things are on just about every IP truck out here.
Exposure,
I agree with you regarding the 7.62x54, though I'm be no means an expert. Perhaps it's a picture of an actual 7.62x54 PKM? For what it's worth, lots of the ammo boxes I've seen around here are a light, almost sea foam green color.
HA HA. Well put. And very true. Those things are on just about every IP truck out here.
Exposure,
I agree with you regarding the 7.62x54, though I'm be no means an expert. Perhaps it's a picture of an actual 7.62x54 PKM? For what it's worth, lots of the ammo boxes I've seen around here are a light, almost sea foam green color.
El Tejon
Member
WTH? Tremendous amount of work to convert???
Guys, these are factory fresh models. All kinds of stuff is being cranked out at places like Tula in Russia. Name a caliber and the cash-starved Russian (and East European) arms makers will make you a freighter full of them. However, I believe a 6 of Bulgarian PKMs was recently approved. Are these Bulgarian?
Where's Tovarish Max when you need him? Tell the guys, Max.
Guys, these are factory fresh models. All kinds of stuff is being cranked out at places like Tula in Russia. Name a caliber and the cash-starved Russian (and East European) arms makers will make you a freighter full of them. However, I believe a 6 of Bulgarian PKMs was recently approved. Are these Bulgarian?
Where's Tovarish Max when you need him? Tell the guys, Max.
Exposure
Member
My mistake, I was under the impression these were conversions of existing PKM's!
El Tejon
Member
No sweat, Ex. You're probably used to all the Frankensteining that SOTs have to do with fully transferrables.
MD_Willington
Member
PKM...
I showed that to my Ethiopian co-worker and he shared the following:
The nick-name for that gun is @ss-hole, because of the hole in the stock...
The guys that would fire the PKM would play little ditties while they fired them, you could tell who was shooting by the "tune" that was playing...
He was in the war between Ethiopia and Eritrea as was a foot soldier, eventually ended up a tank commander of a T55.
I showed that to my Ethiopian co-worker and he shared the following:
The nick-name for that gun is @ss-hole, because of the hole in the stock...
The guys that would fire the PKM would play little ditties while they fired them, you could tell who was shooting by the "tune" that was playing...
He was in the war between Ethiopia and Eritrea as was a foot soldier, eventually ended up a tank commander of a T55.
mordechaianiliewicz
Member
That is possible. If a 7.62NATO Saiga is possible. This could be done. As for LEOs, America would not. But some African and Asian countries might. Maybe an Eastern European country might if they joined up with NATO and didn't want to buy FN or HK because of the higher price.
thexrayboy
Member
Why not...If a department for whatever reason decided that a belt fed fully automatic heavy machine gun had a tactical use in their locale why would they not use the above advertised weapon. It is made by DSA, a reputable American manufacturer and can be had in 7.62 Nato. Personally I might have trouble seeing a reason for the police to have one but I also have a hard time understanding the need they feel for MP5's and Armored vehicles. If they can rationalize those as appropriate law enforcement tools I'm sure a PKM could be rationalized also.
In fact there are some remote counties here in the west where such an item could actually be useful if the local mounties were called upon to deal with a
dramatic terrorist incident while awaiting help. Though the chances of Al Qaeda attacking in say, Eureka Nevada are blindingly slim.
I know I wouldn't mind having one just for s**ts and giggles.
Trifler
Member
If you've got a situation where some guys are robbing a bank at night and somehow the security guard got outside (i.e. nobody inside besides the crooks) then that seems like a good time to open up with a PKM.
Pilgrim
Member
Aside from the fact most state laws require the police to articulate a threat to life before firing, how does one justify to the bank destruction of their property during the police 'reconnaissance by fire'?
Pilgrim
pharmer
Member
I'm sure, in a mall near you, some ninja-loss prevention engineer is putting in one for each of his "squad" Joe
Joehotpig
Member
I have a LE catalog around here burried in the rubble that has some Sig belt fed availible for agency purchases only.
Wes Janson
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FN advertises their M2HB-QCB, and the GAU-21 openly along with other products intended for a law enforcement market. If someone, somewhere out there is buying departmental Ma Deuces, why not a beltfed 7.62?
Remember, they can only sell such weapons for LE/.GOV/.MIL use only (and to SOT holders with a demo letter).
There are definetely applications that such a weapon could serve, possibly in manning secure checkpoints at sensitive facilities for example. Maybe not something we think of, or like to think of, but isn't it better to have more tools than are necesary than not enough tools? Had those officers in LA had access to rifles during the North Hollywood shootout, the situation could have been put to an end a lot quicker. Making these type of weapons available to LE serves the same end- maybe on a much less likely end- but the same none the less.
There are definetely applications that such a weapon could serve, possibly in manning secure checkpoints at sensitive facilities for example. Maybe not something we think of, or like to think of, but isn't it better to have more tools than are necesary than not enough tools? Had those officers in LA had access to rifles during the North Hollywood shootout, the situation could have been put to an end a lot quicker. Making these type of weapons available to LE serves the same end- maybe on a much less likely end- but the same none the less.
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